Will HK be pointless with next tier of raiding?

[AquaSquirrel]

Regardless of how small the upgrades are, they should be upgrades. My hex pieces should not have less of a stat than the non-hex version piece. Losing 1-2 endurance per piece still adds up to lost hp, which makes no sense at all.

[Safonz]

Nevermind. This is getting redundant and its obvious i am not talking to people who know the mage class very well except Aqua

I am going to take this to the mage forum, join me there if you have something relavant to add

[Vioarr]

Regardless of how small the upgrades are, they should be upgrades. My hex pieces should not have less of a stat than the non-hex version piece. Losing 1-2 endurance per piece still adds up to lost hp, which makes no sense at all.

You lose three endurance from T2 epic to T2 relic. I agree that this is an issue but I wish people would be precise instead of misrepresenting for the sake of dramatics.

Nevermind. This is getting redundant and its obvious i am not talking to people who know the mage class very well except Aqua

I am going to take this to the mage forum, join me there if you have something relavant to add

This is not a "mage" discussion but rather an itemization discussion. You lack the capacity to participate in the conversation you initiated so perhaps it is for the best that you have withdrawn to the mage forums.

[Ahov]

People have gotten used to nerfed HK. Keep in mind, ID won't be nerfed right out of the gate. It's going to be brutal in the first few weeks/months, just like HK was. If you still haven't killed Akylios, there's probably not much hope of doing much in ID unless the bosses are seriously bugged in your favor (think Murdantix with 0 tars; remember all the OUTCRY when the tars were re-added? "Oh, now this fight is impossible")

[opaque]

For mages it is. Crit is totally useless, at cap even if you avoid it.

I know this. The point I am making is that you can customize which accessories you wear, which enchants you use, and even where you spend your PA points based on the gear you have available to you.

[AquaSquirrel]

I know this. The point I am making is that you can customize which accessories you wear, which enchants you use, and even where you spend your PA points based on the gear you have available to you.

I know for other classes this is true, and for other classes there are still gains to be made from one tier to the next due to weapon DPS, p crit, AP, and other factors. Those who will find the most issue with it are mages. All our gear was already incredibly poorly itemized. We hit crit cap in raid without even going for a single crit enchant, so those are predetermined for us. Not to mention fire cores are going to exacerbate the problem due to the already bad itemization.

Several hex slots are perhaps 1 SP greater than alternative non hex pieces as well as most of our gear no longer even BiS, as again, due to the crit issue, we want cleric gear for everything on the right side of our character sheet.

I don't care as there's not much to be done to change it. But that's probably the outrage.

[Mustifar]

Ok so I've been reading a lot of people responding about the focus issues with going from T1 to T3. If I were to fully focus shard my T1 set my focus would come out to be 396, add a 20 focus rune in your planar and your g2g. Now in terms of stats *Comparing my HK gear that I have obtained in the last 7 months to the stats of the T1 gear I walked in there with.
The difference between the 2 sets.....with the HK set I get and additional 158sp, 190 sc and atm I am only sitting at 388 focus so I will have to shard a piece or 2 with focus gear when DI comes out anyway.
*Note-Neither set is or was BIS but both are the full mark pieces and the rest are drops from their respective tiers. Also This is for the mage class, So I do not know how other classes have changed with update and how well they scale with their gear.

^This is the point I was trying to make with my original post,I don't think the steps in gear are large enough now, which will make dungeons or at least part of dungeon progression pointless to do other than to say you have been there and kill said boss. Don't get me wrong I think that HK is a awesome dungeon I have enjoyed my time spent in there, I just don't feel from a strict gear perspective that it was worth my time.

[Adrominon]

As i already said, why Skipping ?... HK will be easier then ID, sure the loot is one Tier lesser, but hey you are able to kill at least something..

Guilds who want to skip HK, when ID comes out, will only Wipe and need ages to gear up for the new Tier Raid. Which will be frustrating if you cant beat any Boss, because his Hits, AoEs, Mechanics..

Think about trying General Silgen, pre nerf with only Exp T2 gear...

[Mustifar]

As i already said, why Skipping ?... HK will be easier then ID, sure the loot is one Tier lesser, but hey you are able to kill at least something..

Guilds who want to skip HK, when ID comes out, will only Wipe and need ages to gear up for the new Tier Raid. Which will be frustrating if you cant beat any Boss, because his Hits, AoEs, Mechanics..

Think about trying General Silgen, pre nerf with only Exp T2 gear...

My point isn't so much as to why you would skip it it's the fact that it IS possible to be done. I agree with you that it would be stupid to do, IMO skipping content makes the game less fun, but on the other hand there is not much of an incentive (again strickly gear wise) to progress through hk at least as a mage I can't speak for the other classes. Yes ID will be harder, but why run HK if the gear you get from it isn't going to give you much of an edge (again at least for mages). Instead wouldn't that time be more wisely spent learning the ID fights?

[Mustifar]

*Suggestion

Make the steps between gear larger then when new content comes out nerf the previous tier hard. That way top progression guilds can feel like the gear they are getting is worth the effort, and when something new comes along the guilds that are behind can get through the content more easily. Also with this if new or lower geared members of a guild need to be geared up, the guild can easily catch them up.(similar to HK guilds gearing up people in GSB and ROS)

[Aphophis]

Skipping HK as soon as ID comes out would be a shame. HK's art design is very sign, I love the look and feel of the place. Some bosses can be a bit tedious but there is still quite a few interesting fights in there with a few learning curves, such as Grugonim and Sicaron for example. The bosses have been nerfed ofcourse, but the mechanics of the fights still remain and not all can simply be ignored.

Further nerfing of HK when ID comes out would also be a shame though. There is no need for that.

[JimboTCB]

I can easily see people doing downstairs and just skipping upstairs completely. The top floor bosses can be annoying without water resists, and I wouldn't think new raiders will bother farming resists for old content. Although having said that, you don't even need life/death resist for GSB/ROS nowadays, so maybe gear inflation will take care of that for us. Whatever, it would be a shame if nobody ever went to HK again because it was more effort than it's worth, it's definitely one of the most interesting and fun raids I've done in an MMO.

[MoonfireSpam]

Damn! I didn't realize mages in HK gear had the near 3000 spell crit rating required to be at crit cap.

Totally rolled the wrong class!

Soft cap != Hard cap. Being at soft cap only reduces the desirability / contribution of crit... it does not eliminate its usefulness.

So more crit is still good. Not as good as it was before soft cap, but still good.

Last I checked 47% crit > 45% crit.

[MoonfireSpam]

I can easily see people doing downstairs and just skipping upstairs completely. The top floor bosses can be annoying without water resists, and I wouldn't think new raiders will bother farming resists for old content. Although having said that, you don't even need life/death resist for GSB/ROS nowadays, so maybe gear inflation will take care of that for us. Whatever, it would be a shame if nobody ever went to HK again because it was more effort than it's worth, it's definitely one of the most interesting and fun raids I've done in an MMO.

Pretty sure people will still want certain odds and ends from HK.

I can't really imagine them having things in ID that would be better than amop...

... though I could be wrong =P

[Mustifar]

Damn! I didn't realize mages in HK gear had the near 3000 spell crit rating required to be at crit cap.

Totally rolled the wrong class!

Soft cap != Hard cap. Being at soft cap only reduces the desirability / contribution of crit... it does not eliminate its usefulness.

So more crit is still good. Not as good as it was before soft cap, but still good.

Last I checked 47% crit > 45% crit.

The problem with that is SP>SC for mages anyway, In most cases where you add SC you would have to lose some SP in the process therefore making it a stat lose. So yes mages don't have 3k SC but why would you make your character less powerful?