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Thread: Managing Loot

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Managing Loot

    Wondering how other guilds manage loot during raids.... my guild is currently 10/11hk we dont do gsb and ros or any of the entry level 10 mans anymore and really dont have a set raid for ROTP. We are using an epgp system with some tweaks to certain gear types ie. hexed items and HK relics once we start downing akylios. For the most part loot is pretty easy as we do about 40 or so hk drops per raid week but every so often (last night) we have someone rage over who gets what, who has more hexed than others, etc etc etc.

    Personally loot is not a big deal to me, being a mage its pretty straight forward and quick to complete a gear set but it seems that the other classes are constantly playing "catchup" to complete their sets. We have made it clear to the raiders to pick a main spec and gear that up first as all drops.. mspec or ospec affect your epgp score and chance for future drops.


    Any advice or suggestions on loot systems or how to handle loot rages is appreciated.

  2. #2
    RIFT Guide Writer tordana's Avatar
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    My guild uses basic DKP with blind bidding. Item drops -- people send their DKP bids to the loot master (who is one of the DPS of our raid -- nonessential during trash pulls so we can keep moving after boss kills while he sticks around at the boss to do the loot). Highest bid the loot master receives wins the item -- with a couple exceptions.

    We make people declare a main spec -- which is really just tank/dps, since all the cleric gear has focus now. Mages have only one spec as far as gear is concerned. For any particular piece of loot, any main spec bid has priority over all off spec bids, even if the off spec number is higher. This mostly helps ensure that we gear our tanks up quickly in new tiers of content -- the tanks are generally the first ones with mostly full sets of dropped gear which helps out quite a bit in progression. Of course, it also works the other way -- our tanks aren't stealing DPS pieces that they won't use much.
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  3. #3
    Civ
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    Civ here... leader of EV on Shatterbone.. long time guild leader and dealing with this issue.

    In any serious progression guild a vast majority of your members are going to be loot wh0res. You need to understand this and strucure your rules around it. While forms of officer decision or a system that puts the loot in the hands of the best possible person to help with progression makes the most logical sense... it is a receipe for drama..

    let me explain. Most people are selfish....this is a game they play to be the best and measure epeen. When others inhibit their ability to grow said epeen they will become upset... ala drama.

    so what is the fix? The fix is to put the power of loot into the individual players hands. Developing a system where the destiny of loot is in each individuals hands and thus the only person they can get mad at is themselves and not the leadership staff...cutting down on drama.

    EV uses a bid DKP systm. DKP is acccumulated various ways... boss kills, hourly progression, on time bonus, whatever else you need to do to keep the membership motivated. The amount of dkp is tweeked for the needs. We ccurrently do 2 dkp for a boss kill 7 dkp for an hourlly progression. now when it comes time to distribute loot the item is linked in guild chat and those who can equip the item start bidding until the highest bid is left.

    Example.. the very first hexed belt that dropped from HK went for 240.... now they are going for around 60-100. I had a member who wanted all his oranges first and he got 3 right off the bat and then ran out of dkp... Well he wanted to pay a premium and be first and now he is out of dkp... the 'fault' to use that term loosely is in his own decisions. His discontempt for not being able to get orange #4 is on himself not the leadership staff.

    This system also takes care of infltation, rewards higher attendance etc.... it does have some flaws and is slightly slower on progression that a true officer decision. But i find the long term benefits of keeping the guild drama free outweigh the slight progression edge.

    Hope this helps.
    Civ, 60 Cleric
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  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    Just hit 9/11 but we have been using EP/GP since September. GP bottoms out at 500, 375 EP per half hour (don't know why we use it, but it was 250 at GSB/ROS level). Gear is 40/80/120/225/450 hexed weighted the same as the item. 5% decay after every run. And personally, I love the system.

    Why: The more you show up, the greater your reward. Built in new recruit trial - no priority = no loot. Waiting for that one piece of gear to drop, no problem just don't pick up anything in the mean time. The one thing it has going for it over DKP is that it is usually faster, transparent, and should stop fights in their tracks. Can it bite you in the rear, yep.

    If you had someone get upset over your ep/gp system then they were in the wrong and acting childish. They will probably weed themselves out of your guild in due time.

  5. #5
    Telaran Baccarus's Avatar
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    I'm used to a traditional DKP system but my current guild does something completely different and I love it.

    For Hexed items, we keep a rotation of the 4 classes per item, decided by random from our class leads. When the first hexed belt dropped, all four class leads randomed and the rotation was set. For example, it could be Warrior, Rogue, Mage, Cleric (our cleric lead rolls awful so we're usually last in the rotations). The warrior class would decide amongst themselves who would get the best use out of it and proceed from there. The next belt would go to the rogue class, then mage, then cleric. When the hexed Gloves drop, we set a new rotation for that item and go from there. We maintain a spreadsheet with the rotations for each hexed item as they drop so everyone can see who's up for what. Once 4 of a Hexed item drop, the class leads random again and a new rotation is set. Sometimes this means that Clerics might get two Hexed items in a row, but that's the nature of the dice. Weapons and accessory upgrades are done the same way - openly discussed in class specific chats.

    This system is, of course, wrought with opportunity for greedy people to get upset. We have always dealt with that with a swift gkick. There's no room for that kind of behavior and we've done extremely well at managing it thus far. It breeds camaraderie between players when you're both interested in an item and you can objectively look at the situation and agree that it's better for one of you over the other. I'd rather feel good that my friend got an item they could really use than to feel like I lost out because I didn't offer enough in a silent bid.
    Last edited by Baccarus; 01-26-2012 at 08:19 AM.
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  6. #6
    Ascendant mo0trix's Avatar
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    Anything not orange = DKP
    Anything orange = Loot council

    Once ID is released though I think everything is going through loot council.

  7. #7
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    My thanks for the quick and informative replies....

    The officers, im one of them but voted against this, aggreed on keeping the epgp scores private. Personally I am in favor of making things public so people can see where they are at etc. The only items we still use loot council for, well not yet but when we kill akylios, are relics. And if the PTS item buff becomes live and we begin doing ROS again for those relics those will also be loot counciled so as they go to the right people, ie. those that show up consistently, have good mechanics, etc.

    I for one tend to pass on most of the loot drops for my class in favor of others getting better gear and thus better performance. I usually wait until I see my numbers be it dps or hps start to get passed by others in my class at which point i start bidding on loot. The way we do EPGP is using the standard scoring system, when an item drops people link what they have...despite epgp we dont give a sidegrade or minor upgrade to someone just cause they have a higher score. In that case council gets involved and we politely explain that the item is going to the less geared player (bigger upgrade). I can see how this can cause drama but then we remind everyone how much we raid and how many drops we get per week and that usually calms things down.

    And as stated in a previous post, selfish players usually show THEMSELVES the door in unselfish guilds.

    Again many thanks for the replies

  8. #8
    Civ
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    if you kick every selfish player you will be a carebear guild on the outside looking in... granted i must admit now that the average age of gamers has increased the average maturity level has increased tremendously from the EQ and early Wow days.

    All systems are what you make of them. My advice is to establsh drama free systems as much as possible because it will eventually bite you if you dont... i cant count the number of loot council guilds rush to be server first on the final boss of a dungeon only to break apart before the next dungeon comes out... the true test of a successful guild is can you get server firsts consistently over time when new dungeons are released.

    Wish you guys luck.
    Last edited by Civ; 01-26-2012 at 09:00 AM.
    Civ, 60 Cleric
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    Defiant Guild on Graybriar

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    My old guild used DKP. I liked it because it was totally objective. You want a specific item? Save your points, blow all your DKP at once, get the item. You don't have enough points? Don't cry about it; show up to raid more and bid on it next time.

    There was very little drama because every person was in charge of his/her own score.

    That guild merged into my current guild; we now use a loot council system. I am a member of the loot council with 4 other officers. We try to give loot to the person for whom it will be the largest upgrade. Our baseline rules are that Dex heavy items are rogue first, Str heavy items are war first, Wis heavy = cleric, Int heavy = mage. We prioritize regular raid attendance and the size of the upgrade. Sometimes there is drama, but we have started clearing a lot more of HK so there are more drops to go around.

    Loot council has issues, but if you have good players in your guild and officers who are willing to take the time to really distribute the loot well, it works. We once ended up giving a rogue 2 HK melee weapons before others got them, because that rogue wanted to go melee and having 2 HK weapons made her DPS very good. Other people complained about it, but it didn't make sense to hand melee weapons to rogues who preferred 51 MM anyway. Now, almost all rogues have 2 HK melee weapons.

    Loot council is a much more "wait your turn" system, and our council has run off a few players, but they were generally bad/sporadic players who were upset that people who showed up every day and were responsible got loot. I consider that an intrinsic benefit to the system. A WELL-RUN loot council attracts players who are willing to work as a team.
    Last edited by MajPayne21; 01-26-2012 at 09:30 AM.
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  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    We do have one roll for main-spec and one roll for off-spec. Main=spec rolls trump off-spec rolls. For relics we do main-spec rolls only.

    A guild I was in a while back would have two or three officers decide who gets what. No one had any input on an item. Really did not enjoy this system and played a part in me leaving it.

  11. #11
    Ascendant
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    If you need it roll on it.

    Doesn't matter what spec you're playing now. (example, war tank vs dps, or healer cleric vs tank cleric).

    As long as you play it, its fine by me. /random 100 is the most unbiased way IMO.

  12. #12
    Rift Master Haceldama's Avatar
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    I am not in a guild atm (just returned to the game). That said, I have been the loot dude in many competitive raiding guilds in the past.

    I prefer a modified zero sum dkp system. The key components are:

    1. Everyone starts at zero dkp,
    2. You only earn dkp when someone buys something (dkp value of item divided by number of people in raid = each persons + dkp for the kill).
    3. All items have fixed cost based on tier, thus, for example all 20 man drops cost 20 dkp (makes the numbers easier) and relics cost 40 dkp (or some such),
    4. All raid members are given a tier based on attendance, for example t1 = >80% attendance, t2 = 50-80% attendance, and t3 = applicants and <50% attendance, and
    5. Conflicts where two or more people want same item are resolved first by their tier (higher tiers over lower tiers), next by present dkp, and then by roll (very rarely happens after 2 or so months).

    The benefits of this system are:

    1. It encourages everyone to gear up their toons (which equals progression) b/c the raid only earns dkp if someone buys something (peer pressure is great),
    2. It is very easy to manage b/c all dkp calculations are done outside of raid (off night/time), and
    3. Loot is distributed very quickly ... everyone is responsible to set up a macro sending tell to loot master with tier and present dkp (as of the beginning of raid) ... thus, item X is linked and three folks hit their macro ... two secs later the loot master congrats winner and we move on.

    The down side of this system are:

    1. Some well geared raiders will normally get the new uber loot first b/c they rarely spend dkp and always raid ... I personally think this is a plus b/c you reward your horses over your mules and
    2. The system relies a bit on the honesty of the guildies b/c they could fib when setting up their loot tell macros ... I haven't seen this as a problem b/c I always maintained a dkp page on the forums so everyone looked at it when loot was given out thus if someone fibbed it was immediately found out.

    I have seen a variation of this system that was also ok (although I did not like it as much). It was basically the same system except that dkp over 60 days was either ignored or had reduced value. I believe this just added unneeded complication for little reward. Others believe it prevented long time guildies from leaving the game and returning with a bunch of dkp.

    Just my thoughts on the subject from the Dark Side!!!

    Haceldama
    Last edited by Haceldama; 01-26-2012 at 11:12 AM.

  13. #13
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    I've always been a big fan of loot council. It rewards people for more than showing up and being a warm body. Put a class lead in charge of that classes loot and it makes it even easier. For example, your cleric lead will know if that new chain helm should go to the new cleric who really needs gear but isn't performing or the veteran raider who would like a slight upgrade just by knowing your guild's clerics. My previous guild used this system and our GM/cleric lead was more than fair often passing up loot for himself to gear people up.
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  14. #14
    Sword of Telara
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    no matter what someone will be unhappy. I am glad my dkp is pubicly posted or I wouldnt have found teh significant errors in it, i wouldve simply been told I didnt win the item and never know why.

    I am fine with dkp for HK drops, I am fine for the tweaked system we have for hexed items and free roll on pulsating crystals. What has personally blown for me has been the one or two items I specifically want that arent in our dkp raids. I cannot tell you how disappointed I was to see Token of Warding free rolled upon and won by a cleric who was dpsing on our very last acheivement run thru RoS.
    Last edited by Chovie; 01-26-2012 at 12:19 PM.

  15. #15
    Ascendant batou079's Avatar
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    Really interesting read!
    Well, we are 10/11 and our players are pretty well geared now. But still gearing to min/max for Aky. (we are almost through phase 1).

    We adhere to the the Suicide Kings loot list style... with loot council for specific items. This is in regards to pure progression gearing. While we pushed for 10/11 this allowed us to have players privately contact the loot master to say they are interested in the posted item... then the loot master checks the SK loot list for next priority name on list. We are so evenly geared across our raid to this point that most all gear drops are sharded... so every armor/gear piece is now free roll. Weapons/Accessories/Trinkets are still on the SK loot list.

    Hex Pieces arent an amazing upgrade, just pride items. So we basically require all raid members to have ONE before we allow players to start getting a 2nd, the same for each additional piece. we are on roughly our 3rd rotation for this. Loot council will only be necessary for Aky relics once we get there.

    We adhere to a strict no drama/no emo over loot policy. We are not hardcore, we are not softcore, so anyone who gives grief and goes emo over gear gets sat or if really bad, the boot. We had to do so several times now. So far it has been REALLY healthy and kept our raid core REALLY strong... It helps promote fairness and cooperation in the raid, which seems to have kept the typically "selfish palyer" attitudes in check.

    DKP was never an option, we felt that system was more geared for hardcore raiders.

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