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Thread: What makes me not want to tank pugs is...

  1. #1
    Rift Master
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    Default What makes me not want to tank pugs is...

    /rant on

    I have a tank, I love to tank, my tank is raid capable, I execute instance runs cleanly with a brisk but not suicidal pace and I don't rage if people need an afk or a moment (ie, I like to move fast but I'm not so preoccupided with speed that it's annoying), I don't mind answering questions or describing fights, but what is killing me in Rift and what makes me barely tolerate doing PUGs as a tank is...

    crappy dpsers

    I have no clue what prereqs there are for queing for T2's, but whatever they are, they are either WAY too lax or nonexistent. Far to many horribly geared, horribly specced, and/or stupid players get into T2's as DPS and contribute next to nothing. Ok. You don't need a perfect spec (and it would be difficult for trion to quantify this). You don't need to have a clue (trion can't really quantify this either) - go ahead, suck at one of the easiest MMORPGs ever. But somewhere, the gear, clue, and spec need to mesh such that you can do enough dps to help finish the instance before we all die of insanity.

    Lots of people are skipping T1's these days. No. Make it stop. People should need the achievement for every T1 before queing for T2's. At bare minimum. Along with actually having at least a T1 gear level before doing T2's.

    Trion could do a better job of rating gear, stats, something to qualify people for T2 queing.

    It seems like now all a dps needs is 100 hit/focus and they can queue, which is stupid, because you can EASILY hit 100 hit/focus with a ton of greens and low level blues equipped and runes help fudge and push the idiocy further. I'm sorry, but your level 45-50 greens and your level 30-50 blues, and your trinket that gives you extra xp up to lvl 20 are NOT really gear you should still be using in T2's.

    How do people get to level 50 and still have a trinket that hasn't done anything in 30 levels equipped? I've seen this on several 50's in T2's.

    Yesterday I had a melee dps in my T2 group dual wielding 2 greens....how is this even possible? In the same group one of the dps did under 100 dps on a boss fight. I like DPS meters. I know how to use them in context. The meter is not everything. It's just a tool. But there is no context in a T2 boss fight where 100 dps is even remotely acceptable. Maybe from the healer if they're bored and dpsing. I'm almost doing 100 dps on rift stage 5 bosses on my lvl 14 alt (granted, it's fully runed, augmented crafted, OP event weapon, loaded boa sigil (as loaded as one can be at lvl 14), and I have somewhat of a clue).

    The above illustrates the problem at its worst. Having one irresponsible DPSer doing crap dps in a group drags it down some. Having THREE horrific DPSers in the same group (assuming you use no support, which I don't, because my healer can handle, and I run a warlord tank build to buff the group some) is nothing but pure torture.

    The even crazier thing is that so many players are perfectly fine with getting carried. It's like their god given right to suck and inflict misery on other players doing T2's for a few weeks to sponge gear while not contributing. And hey, trion's system fully supports it, so why not? Well, because you cry that no tanks queue...and you wonder why...well, this is one reason.

    I also queue dps with my friend's other healer, and we very rarely have bad tanks. I'd say 4/5 are very good and that 1/5 are either slightly clueless or slightly undergeared, but it's rare to have a truly bad tank in T2's because most people don't want to suck or fail so badly at tanking (or the group would end immediately due to wiping on the first trash pull).

    Why do dpsers, who are the bottom feeders, who are doing the easiest role, who have no responsibility except to point and shoot and maybe not die stupidly standing in goo, get to be such slackers, and why do they get to queue into T2's with gear that would be embarassing in regular lvl 50 instances?

    Arrrrggggg!

    C'mon DPSers, this game isn't that hard. It's not that hard to come up with a decent build, it isn't that hard to come up with gear, nothing about this game is really all that difficult...try...just a little...please?

    /rant off

  2. #2
    Ascendant TheDrizzle404's Avatar
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    run dungeons with all your friend.

    meh, but on a serious note, very slow dps can be annoying. im not even specd for pure dps on my cleric (support mostly) and i probably sat around 400 dps with the crafted greens of my armorsmithing. im not one for judging everyone purely on meters, but there is a limitation to that ideal.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Voqar View Post
    /rant on

    I have a tank, I love to tank, my tank is raid capable, I execute instance runs cleanly with a brisk but not suicidal pace and I don't rage if people need an afk or a moment (ie, I like to move fast but I'm not so preoccupided with speed that it's annoying), I don't mind answering questions or describing fights, but what is killing me in Rift and what makes me barely tolerate doing PUGs as a tank is...

    crappy dpsers

    I have no clue what prereqs there are for queing for T2's, but whatever they are, they are either WAY too lax or nonexistent. Far to many horribly geared, horribly specced, and/or stupid players get into T2's as DPS and contribute next to nothing. Ok. You don't need a perfect spec (and it would be difficult for trion to quantify this). You don't need to have a clue (trion can't really quantify this either) - go ahead, suck at one of the easiest MMORPGs ever. But somewhere, the gear, clue, and spec need to mesh such that you can do enough dps to help finish the instance before we all die of insanity.

    Lots of people are skipping T1's these days. No. Make it stop. People should need the achievement for every T1 before queing for T2's. At bare minimum. Along with actually having at least a T1 gear level before doing T2's.

    Trion could do a better job of rating gear, stats, something to qualify people for T2 queing.

    It seems like now all a dps needs is 100 hit/focus and they can queue, which is stupid, because you can EASILY hit 100 hit/focus with a ton of greens and low level blues equipped and runes help fudge and push the idiocy further. I'm sorry, but your level 45-50 greens and your level 30-50 blues, and your trinket that gives you extra xp up to lvl 20 are NOT really gear you should still be using in T2's.

    How do people get to level 50 and still have a trinket that hasn't done anything in 30 levels equipped? I've seen this on several 50's in T2's.

    Yesterday I had a melee dps in my T2 group dual wielding 2 greens....how is this even possible? In the same group one of the dps did under 100 dps on a boss fight. I like DPS meters. I know how to use them in context. The meter is not everything. It's just a tool. But there is no context in a T2 boss fight where 100 dps is even remotely acceptable. Maybe from the healer if they're bored and dpsing. I'm almost doing 100 dps on rift stage 5 bosses on my lvl 14 alt (granted, it's fully runed, augmented crafted, OP event weapon, loaded boa sigil (as loaded as one can be at lvl 14), and I have somewhat of a clue).

    The above illustrates the problem at its worst. Having one irresponsible DPSer doing crap dps in a group drags it down some. Having THREE horrific DPSers in the same group (assuming you use no support, which I don't, because my healer can handle, and I run a warlord tank build to buff the group some) is nothing but pure torture.

    The even crazier thing is that so many players are perfectly fine with getting carried. It's like their god given right to suck and inflict misery on other players doing T2's for a few weeks to sponge gear while not contributing. And hey, trion's system fully supports it, so why not? Well, because you cry that no tanks queue...and you wonder why...well, this is one reason.

    I also queue dps with my friend's other healer, and we very rarely have bad tanks. I'd say 4/5 are very good and that 1/5 are either slightly clueless or slightly undergeared, but it's rare to have a truly bad tank in T2's because most people don't want to suck or fail so badly at tanking (or the group would end immediately due to wiping on the first trash pull).

    Why do dpsers, who are the bottom feeders, who are doing the easiest role, who have no responsibility except to point and shoot and maybe not die stupidly standing in goo, get to be such slackers, and why do they get to queue into T2's with gear that would be embarassing in regular lvl 50 instances?

    Arrrrggggg!

    C'mon DPSers, this game isn't that hard. It's not that hard to come up with a decent build, it isn't that hard to come up with gear, nothing about this game is really all that difficult...try...just a little...please?

    /rant off
    Rift is full of bad players across all roles.......the LFD just increases your chance of being in a group of them.

    I quit tanking dungeons because of horrible DPS that I know I could 3x their DPS combined if I were DPS instead.

    But as of late as DPS I have run across more and more horrible tanks as well where even after waiting for all mobs to be positioned....then doing a 10count before starting my rotations.....2 rotations in all or most of the mobs are on me.....even Warrior tanks where come on....aggro is stupidly easy.

    I will say I have not run into anywhere near as many horrible healers as I have tanks and DPS.

    At this point as Tank or DPS I wait for a few trash pulls.......take a peak at what my parser is showing me and then decide to stay or leave. I do not belittle or insult anyone.....I just leave the group. If I were to stay in a bad group I will just get more angry and I might do something rude or not nice.

  4. #4
    Rift Master Pope Zaphod's Avatar
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    Thanks for writing this. I appreciate hearing the perspective of a tank.

    Quote Originally Posted by Voqar View Post
    It seems like now all a dps needs is 100 hit/focus and they can queue, which is stupid, because you can EASILY hit 100 hit/focus with a ton of greens and low level blues equipped and runes help fudge and push the idiocy further.
    I know that as a dps Cleric I only needed 90 Focus and 340 Wisdom to get into T2's. I ran a bunch of T1's, got as much purple gear as possible, got my focus to around 140 and eventually got runes and rings from a guildie to push my Wisdom past 340.

    And I got my arse handed to me regularly in T2's.

    I've gotten better with practice and patience, but at least once I got chewed out for daring to enter a T2 with a green necklace. I've had great PUGs and crap PUGs. But I think I would have benefited from having better gear. The problem was I already HAD the T1 gear or better from running T1's. So if I need better gear to run T2's, where am I supposed to get it if I've already gotten everything out of T1's? (Granted, I need a better necklace.)

    I agree completely with the OP that no one should be able to go into T2's without doing ALL T1's. And while I appreciate the suggestions and limits Trion has put on getting into T2's, I feel they need to both raise the limits and make gear available that will get you over that new limit.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
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    340 main stat 90 hit/focus. It is easy, I hit 50 Saturday night, was able to queue for T2's after 3 T1 runs. And that was when i noticed being able to queue does not mean being able to do them. I will not be trying one until I get some more gear.
    Sorry, the worst Assassian ever to play any game anywhere.

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser
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    I hit 50 on my rogue 2 days ago, and was able to walk straight into T2's. My DPS wasn't great, but i knew what to do and I did okay DPS (like 400 or so). After one day, I was the top DPS in 3 runs in a row, with a 51MM spec. The in one run, the next highest DPS was the tank. Even lost a ring to a 200 DPS rogue...

    I don't mind doing T1's first and thought I would have to, but 200 DPS on a T2 boss fight is ridiculous.

  7. #7
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    Trion needs to give achievements based on DPS over 100k HP at the dummy, and have those achievements as prerequisites to queue DPS in LFG. Same thing for healing with HPS. Same thing for tanking with a robot DPS'ing on the tank and a robot healing them. This would require no new game mechanics, and is a much better indicator of instance performance than raw stats.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    stop getting angry about it and join a solid guild. You cant rage stupid out of existence....instead just ignore it. Just let the bads PUG and fail over and over again until they rage quit and laugh while you run a T2 in half an hour with goods.

  9. #9
    Plane Touched
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    I pug tank ALOT. Or I did. I can't stand it anymore because of the poor dps. I agree it seems to be getting worse. Most people I run into pull 400 single target. That is averaged. That is pulled up because I have come across a few 900-1300s. I've also had the pleasure of several who could get out dps'd by my chloro spamming void life as if it's the only spell I need. Which is actually true many times. Using half rank 1 valor gear and a bad lazy spec, 44 Sab 20 sin 2 ranger, and I still see myself doing twice and sometimes three times the damage of most dps I see. It's sickening. I actually feel pigeon holed into tanking to get quick lfg pops, and feel punished for taking on the responsibility of tanking.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Warriors are on par with cleric and rogue tanking

  10. #10
    Telaran Warmane's Avatar
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    I hear your pain.... make more dps friends on your server to start your T2 queue with :/

    I skipped right to T2's with a full set of Rank 3 PvP gear (dps only), crafted purple 2hder Battleaxe with +24 hit enchant...err... rune, and haven't had any issues being competitive dps-wise.

    think i have a crafted blue bow with +30 hit too.
    Garn - Warrior [50][R4]
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  11. #11
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    I know this is a thread about PvE stuff, but I just couldn't help but draw the parallel to PvP where people queue up and perform just as poorly in warfronts and then show up to the forums to rage about how unfair everything is/how OP everyone else is/how broken the game is.

    Sorry. Had to go there. Carry on.

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara
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    I am so tired of this. Do you honestly have nothing better to do?
    Last edited by Lienda; 09-20-2011 at 11:32 AM.

  13. #13
    Champion of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lienda View Post
    I am so tired of these hate threads! Do you honestly have nothing better to do?!
    Yes I hate grouping with bad players....notice I said bad......not new.....not low-geared......not inexperienced.......just BAD...horrible players. I am a horrible person because I am tired of carrying lazy players?

  14. #14
    Ascendant Oggiefishier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaylonn View Post
    Yes I hate grouping with bad players....notice I said bad......not new.....not low-geared......not inexperienced.......just BAD...horrible players. I am a horrible person because I am tired of carrying lazy players?
    Sounds like a republican mind set so acording to the media..yep :-) please note the smiley lol.
    And Shepard's we shall be for thee my lord for thee, power hath descendant forth from thy hand, may our feet swiftly carry on thy command, so we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be

    In nomeni Patri et Filii et Spiritus Sancti.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gaylonn View Post
    Yes I hate grouping with bad players....notice I said bad......not new.....not low-geared......not inexperienced.......just BAD...horrible players. I am a horrible person because I am tired of carrying lazy players?
    Thank you both for your teeth.
    Last edited by Lienda; 09-20-2011 at 11:41 AM.

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