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Thread: The cycle forming around Hit Rating that needs to start getting changed now/soon.

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara
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    Default The cycle forming around Hit Rating that needs to start getting changed now/soon.

    I am not sure the title of the post is correct but something i thought/noticed and its probably bound to show better in the next 20man raid but doesnt show as much right now because of the 75 hit rating the enchants provide.

    First things first, its not a whine post or any QQ its a post to see what others think about this whole issue i am gonna mention and hopefully Trion will change how Hit Rating certainly works before they base their whole game around it as it seems to be heading that way.

    Apart from the fundamental problem that Rogue/Warriors/Melee clerics have that 90% of the DPS output is based on the Weapon DPS because the stats scale horribly and apart from having the soft crit cap the rest stats do not affect your DPS as much as gaining a new tier weapon, but lets bypass this problem for now and focus on the main post about hit rating.

    With 1.5 we are getting Master modes, the moment they said they drop T1 Raid gear quality i was overjoyed!

    Why was i overjoyed? Not for me, i do not need any T1 raid item for 2-3 months now, but for my guild and how problematic are all these T2 geared recruits/etc to bring into a guild thats progressing through Hammerknell.

    I was overjoyed from the fact that when thats released it means more chances to gear the new players faster to bring their Hit rating and Weapons (Assuming master modes drops weapons) to "Okay" levels for Hammerknell.

    And thats when it hit me and i asked myself this question:

    "Alright they added Master Modes for those that cant raid, at the same time it helps us gear recruits faster apart from GsB/RoS, to make our life easier and less tiring and boring to gear them up!

    What about when the next raid comes and the hit requirement becomes 420+? Or maybe even more considering Akylios requires more than 320.

    What is Trion gonna do then? Master Pro mode? Expert Master mode? Another craft set that will require 600p or more to make quick enough for that player to be usable in the raid that wont really bring him near the proper hit rating or stats, just make him require less gearing up than a month of running the previous raid content.
    "

    And thats my main concern.

    What is Trion gonna do 4-5 months from now when the next 20man raid gets released with higher hit rating requirement which we can easily assume is gonna be 420.

    Its not even possible for a full T3 player to reach 420, with the perfect hit items and the 75 from the enchants you will be around 370-80 but thats about it, not even 420, so that means GsB/RoS/Master Modes gear is gonna be completely useless in a few months.

    A full HK geared person has pretty much 400 hit without any enchant if i recall correctly the FULL RELIC ROGUE on the PTS has 397 hit so that means +2 13 hit enchants to be at 423 to never see a dodge, so its gonna be the same as it is with HK right now, the full T4 player will require 1-2 enchants to have his 420+ as the full T3 player requires 1-2 enchants to be at 320+.

    So how exactly is the T2/T3 (with the whole master mode thing and crafts)player gonna get into raids 4 months from now?

    Are we expected to run him threw HK for 1 month, give him every single loot that older raiders will require to get his hit rating to appropriate levels?


    What are you gonna do?

    "Oh here is the Master Master mode of T1 Dungeons, it drops T2 Raid Loot!"

    Which is just wrong...

    The gap between a T2 player and HK raiding is already big enough, because of the hit and the terrible horrible scaling of weapons and DPS in this game, i dont even wanna imagine what will happen in the next raid tier where the gap is gonna be massive.

    TLDR:

    Master Modes will drop T1 raid loot, yay for the new recruits for people progressing into HK and are forced to run GsB/RoS repeatedly wasting raid nights to gear the players.

    What will happen when the next raid tier is released with the 420 hit rating requirement and the insane gap between the items mostly caused by the lack of Hit rating mainly.

    Is Trion gonna release new "Master Of Master Modes" with HK loot quality to make the progression faster then?

    Instead of fixing the two fundamentals problems in Rift?

    1)Hit rating not being a standard % as it should be.

    2)Rogue/Warriors could not care less about stats apart from their Weapon DPS and the crit soft cap.

    Problem 2 is not easy to fix, but problem 1 is very easily fixable.
    Last edited by potis; 09-03-2011 at 06:16 PM.

  2. #2
    Champion of Telara
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    Meh, kinda late so might have missed some parts/sound weird but its a real concern ;/

    The way the game now works, Trion seems to be trying to find ways to give people gear to catch up with those already ahead of them and it seems they are planning to keep doing that and it will probably end up being some silly way.

    Enchants and crafts are always an idea to make it easier but its a tiny bandage on a huge wound and does not fix the problem.

    As long as the hit rating is flat, even if the player wont pull their weight in the raid as a DPS because the way the game works for Rogues/Warriors, unless you have a proper Weapon your DPS will suck cause the other stats dont matter almost at all apart from the soft crit cap, that player can be used as a backup to benefit the raid instead of being completely useless because he can actually touch the boss.

    Archon/Bard/Stupid warrior buff bot spec etc etc.
    Last edited by potis; 09-03-2011 at 06:27 PM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant Vayra's Avatar
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    Tbh the best way to do it would be something akin to how WAR did it with wards. They could be gained either through the previous tier of gear or by doing certain other tasks of appropriate difficulty. Each fragment of a ward would make you take less damage and deal more damage to the appropriate tier mobs. This is a simple system though it does make it slightly harder to get new people geared (though in WAR this was partially remedied by the pvp gear also granting wards)
    -The Unnamed- Defiant
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  4. #4
    Plane Touched
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    By the time the next 20 man comes out, HK will be cleared by so many guilds just like gsb/ros was before HK came out. I don't see the issue with hit when everybody has HK gear.
    Aftermath-Cleric tank

  5. #5
    Prophet of Telara ChainsawPlankton's Avatar
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    what about more tier2 raids with HK equivalent gear?

    I think they would start by adding hit/focus to other parts of gear besides the helm/gloves. or maybe a new skill in the coming soon alternate progression?

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post


    Its not even possible for a full T3 player to reach 420, with the perfect hit items and the 75 from the enchants you will be around 370-80 but thats about it, not even 420
    My guild had no problem hitting 420 hit/focus for everyone by the time we got to the upstairs part. alot of us did not get more than one upgrade the gloves. and then we used hit and focus banners. are you forgetting about hit and focus banners?

    cause honestly it was really not hard for me to get to get to 400 focus and then with the banners i was good to go. and i was in full t1 raid gear from ros and gsb, i diid full focus enchants and a focus lesser in my water core...

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    i miss the days of EQ where you could level weapon skill x to 300. congrats you don't / rarely miss, parry, get dodged. Or level casting skill x your spells don't / rarely get resisted. This hit / focus stuff is just annoying and a waste of item stats. Even more so by the limiting factor that it's always on (head / hands / main-hand / off-hand / ranged / rings / necks) and more often then not have to use every one of those slots for hit or focus.
    Last edited by KortezBelmont; 09-03-2011 at 09:22 PM.

  8. #8
    RIFT Guide Writer Zyzyx's Avatar
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    With the increase in hit requirements over time 75 hit will eventually be not enough to help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Daglar View Post
    When time allows I'll be looking at the issue with the class guys.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
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    Your post is so stupid that I can't even respond in a witty manner.

    It's called scaling. You gear up through t1 raid for t2 raid, and t2 raid for t3 raid.

    By the time t3 raids come out other t2s will have been created to add more currency and ultimately get the gear required 6 months down the road when they release a t3 raid.

  10. #10
    Ascendant
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    I can understand frustration around gearing up recruits, but there is a simple solution: have another guild gear them up. Yes, that's right. Don't take them through all these raids yourself. Only accept members who are ready for HK raiding and beyond. If they're in T2 gear with no raid experience, why would you accept them for HK anyways?

    You're making the process a lot harder than it is when you accept undergeared/inexperienced recruits.

  11. #11
    Champion Enokarda's Avatar
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    Its pretty easy to reach 400+ hit actually. I think the tiered system is fine. With no +hit talents from souls I'm able to get 397 currently and I do not have an HK neck, ranged, or head piece. No relic quality armor yet. Add all that in and you'll get another 35. Add the relic pieces in and you're looking at ~45 depending on your set. so Over 430 hit fully HK geared. I don't see how this is a problem. Especially since with hit banners it is another +50.

    (btw, you need 400+ for akylios pre banners anyway. Forcing the next tier to be 420 is perfectly reasonable. Although I expect them to do something similar to RoS where they add another 20 man with the 320 requirement.)

    edit:

    I noticed part of the concern is new recruits not having enough +hit/focus. Well... that is what a tiered system does. You need to progress through the tiers to be able to do the next one. Don't worry, I'm sure an expansion will come out and we'll be replacing all of our relic gear with greens. I don't want this to happen but it seems the norm. Only game I haven't seen follow this trend is eq2
    Last edited by Enokarda; 09-04-2011 at 06:52 AM.

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  12. #12
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
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    its not rocket science...

    you do T1 dungeons to gear for T2 dungeons
    T2 dungeons to gear for raid T1
    you do T1 raids to gear for T2 raids (HK)
    you do T2 raids to gear for T3 raids


    i don't see how this is a problem Trion has already announced its approach for tiered raiding:

    as more tiers of content are added, they make the tiers below it easier/more accessible for a larger % of player base.

    like a pyramid

    for example: (made up statistics)

    right now:
    10% is in T2 raids
    30% in T1 raids
    60% below

    in ~6 months:
    10% in T3 raids
    30% in T2 raids
    60% in T1 raids and below

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara
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    I am missing something here?

    The OP is pissed because he does not know what is going to happen in a MMO in 6 months?

    Yeah . . . ok, good luck with that.

  14. #14
    Rift Master
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    Solve it through crafting:
    -Make HK (and each new raid dungeon) drop crafting mats off bosses (let's say 1 water rune per boss)
    -Implement new crafting recipes which are primarily for hit slots (weapon, gloves, necklace, etc.) that require the crafting mats (5 for a helmet, 3 for a ring, 7-10 for a weapon, etc.)
    -Item level of the new crafted pieces should be around the same lvl as T3 (current raid dungeon tier -1), maybe slightly lower item lvl but slightly higher hit/focus

    This allows raiding guilds to equip some people on some slots but the mats should not drop in such amounts that they can be sold off in any quantity. Maybe even make the mats (and the items?) "guild bound" (can only be given to guild members, item is lost on gquit or gkick) to prevent sale.

  15. #15
    Soulwalker
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    Trion will probably raise the level limit then with a new expansion. Everyone back on a level playing field, with blues better than current raid loot. Problem solved.

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