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Thread: Performing your role in low-level dungeons.

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser vertigale's Avatar
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    Default Performing your role in low-level dungeons.

    I am a low level tank (22) and I queue for the tanking role and am always put into the party makeup as a tank. Which is good--I'm practicing and enjoy doing it. I haven't had any major mishaps and am enjoying learning the ropes and generally being a warrior.

    But I'd say 50% of the time so far, there is at least one person in the group who will not allow me to perform my role. Usually its someone who is a bit on the high side of the level bracket for that dungeon so it is easy for them to pull before me and survive. They can usually take out trash themselves without me actually tanking (unless there are too many mobs, and then I have to protect the healer).

    Anyway... I usually end up leaving the dungeon and taking the debuff because so far, I've been unlucky enough that these people have friends in the group, so I can't kick them. But when I speak up and ask to be allowed to tank, the role I signed up for, I am brushed aside because it is 'faster'.

    A ranger/bard told me this today, it was crazy. They pulled everything and only wanted me around to tank the bosses.

    Anyway, in experts this behaviour would definitely not fly. Why is it so prevalent in low level dungeons? How are people new to their roles supposed to learn/practice?

    Is this something that will pop up regularly until I hit 50 on this warrior? If so, I will spec into DPS and solo instead xD I mean, there's always 'that guy' once in awhile who has the ceaseless 'go go go' mentality but what I'm experiencing thusfar is more widespread than that.

    Am I unlucky or is this a trend in low level dungeons? I don't recall this happening so much when I leveled my main. Thanks
    Last edited by vertigale; 09-03-2011 at 01:56 AM.

    cleric - faeblight - <legacy of the covenant>

  2. #2
    Ascendant TheDrizzle404's Avatar
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    just make it clear. "either im going to tank this whole thing, or you are. make your choice." then let them carry you, or laugh at them when they wipe on a boss cuz they cant tank properly.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser vertigale's Avatar
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    The last time I actually did /sit while the ranged and friend barreled into the next group of mobs. I should have been a little more patient just to see them try to tank a boss, haha xD But in the end, I am the odd man out more than often and if I stop contributing to the run I will be kicked. I'd rather leave of my own volition.

    I need to find some friends in my alt's level bracket.

    I just don't recall this sort of thing happening this often a few months ago. I guess its because people are leveling their second or third alt and are familiar with the dungeons, but I think if the group is doing well and moving at a good clip, people should be respectful of the roles they and others queued for.

    This person I had the latest problems with told me they tanked experts on their main. I asked them how they'd feel if while in an expert, the DPS kept pulling and they said it wouldn't matter, lol xD

    Somehow I doubt that.

    cleric - faeblight - <legacy of the covenant>

  4. #4
    aux
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    If it's faster, then go with it. Why would you want to slow the group down?
    I'm so BORED

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser vertigale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    If it's faster, then go with it. Why would you want to slow the group down?
    Because I want to do the role I signed up for :O

    If a DPS wants to tank, they should change to a tanking role and have at it, or queue as a tank.

    The DPS could survive the pulls they were taking, but if I wasn't there the healer would die because they can't keep aggro on large groups. It's also harder on a healer because instead of 1 primary healing target and occasional party healing, they have to take on 2 or 3 targets who require big heals.

    I guess it just seems like common sense to me... if you want to tank a dungeon ermmm... roll/queue as a tank?
    Last edited by vertigale; 09-03-2011 at 02:29 AM.

    cleric - faeblight - <legacy of the covenant>

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by vertigale View Post
    I am a low level tank (22) and I queue for the tanking role and am always put into the party makeup as a tank. Which is good--I'm practicing and enjoy doing it. I haven't had any major mishaps and am enjoying learning the ropes and generally being a warrior.

    But I'd say 50% of the time so far, there is at least one person in the group who will not allow me to perform my role. Usually its someone who is a bit on the high side of the level bracket for that dungeon so it is easy for them to pull before me and survive. They can usually take out trash themselves without me actually tanking (unless there are too many mobs, and then I have to protect the healer).

    Anyway... I usually end up leaving the dungeon and taking the debuff because so far, I've been unlucky enough that these people have friends in the group, so I can't kick them. But when I speak up and ask to be allowed to tank, the role I signed up for, I am brushed aside because it is 'faster'.

    A ranger/bard told me this today, it was crazy. They pulled everything and only wanted me around to tank the bosses.

    Anyway, in experts this behaviour would definitely not fly. Why is it so prevalent in low level dungeons? How are people new to their roles supposed to learn/practice?

    Is this something that will pop up regularly until I hit 50 on this warrior? If so, I will spec into DPS and solo instead xD I mean, there's always 'that guy' once in awhile who has the ceaseless 'go go go' mentality but what I'm experiencing thusfar is more widespread than that.

    Am I unlucky or is this a trend in low level dungeons? I don't recall this happening so much when I leveled my main. Thanks
    I have only experienced this once..pls note im dps or support heal..i wait till the tank has threat b4 i do anything and find nearly all the groups (pugs) ive been in have done this..many time ive been highest level but its the tanks job to take damage so if i was you i would let whoever pulls(after a warning at beginning of dungeon) get on with it and just lol when they die...dungeons and warfronts need teamwork and not solo ppl who think they good. A tank is a tank..dps is dps etc..dont save heros

  7. #7
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    If it's faster, then go with it. Why would you want to slow the group down?
    Because they are trying to learn the mechanics of tanking, you dont learn anything when some overleveled overgeared turd wants to flex his muscle in a dungeon he shouldnt even be in.
    Quote Originally Posted by June View Post
    Many have quitted, they are lost almost half of the servers they started. I hop in next MMO for sure. Rift is awesome game but PVP is just crap.
    Lol really now?

  8. #8
    Champion of Telara Elric-merren's Avatar
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    It is basically the rush to get to max level that you are seeing, doing the instances as fast as you can to get the best exp you can. It was at one time when people were learning the instancesa nd fights about doing your role and working together when you would need to, but now with these places basically worked over and known pretty muchh by all it is get in and out fast. THough i understand people have real life issues and responsibilities but if you can not spend the minimum time in the instances with a pug which is not going to be the best geared or knowledgable about their role, then you should not que up till you have the time or get a guild and level together at your pace. I drop from groups as whatever role i am whenevr someone starts to get to where they want to go faster and doing my job for me. Did it to a ranged rogue he pulled up to the bos i said good lick have fun tanking the boss. and then left after he pulled it with an incriminate. I always tell people before the start if they want to go fast or start to pull or what not before me i will leave, and then never believe till i port at the boss and leave group.

  9. #9
    Shadowlander
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    It is interesting <over generalization incoming > because those same people will then complain when you get to max level and don't know how to tank.

  10. #10
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    Part of the problem is that at that level its very difficult to tune mobs to be threatening to non tanks, but still managable in groups for tanks. The defensive stats on tanks while levelling dont tend to be massively more than what a dps will have - you dont get masses more hp, dodge, etc, and at lower levels you dont have all your tanking talents/skills yet. Add the dps having a couple of levels on the tank and being well geared, and it gets even worse. At the level cap, the difference between a tank and dps stats wise becomes more pronounced, so its a lot easier to balance the mobs to make it so that a dps isnt going to try and solo them. Unless of course, gear inflation gets to the point where they can, and you'll end up with the same thing.

    The more people get familiar with the game, and the more people realise when they can and cant do it, the more you will see it happen. At least while levelling. They do it because they know they can get away with it, and they just want to get to the end quicker. Its disrespectful, but they dont actually see it like that, because they think its helping the group.

    I dont really think theres a way around it without really upping the difficulty level in dungeons and making things hit really hard, or really buffing the survivability of tanks at lower levels, neither of which I think Trion really want to do. For the moment, I think you're just going to have to bite the bullet, and speak to your groups to ask them not to pull instead of you.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott23 View Post
    It is interesting <over generalization incoming > because those same people will then complain when you get to max level and don't know how to tank.
    Although I am new to Rift, I have seen this same issue for years now, in another well known but less quality mmo, my question to the OP: Is this something new (Half birthday time era) ar been going on for awhile?

    I ask because, with the free week, I can guarantee alot of bored WoW players showed up here, and alot of them signed up and stayed. The guild I am in is a testament to that. And, unfortunately, being an jerk like those in the OP's post aren't restricted to wow, they bring that crap here when they come.
    Last edited by Shakemyhand; 09-03-2011 at 03:59 AM.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched wingedkitten's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shakemyhand View Post
    Although I am new to Rift, I have seen this same issue for years now, in another well known but less quality mmo, my question to the OP: Is this something new (Half birthday time era) ar been going on for awhile?

    I ask because, with the free week, I can guarantee alot of bored WoW players showed up here, and alot of them signed up and stayed. The guild I am in is a testament to that. And, unfortunately, being an jerk like those in the OP's post aren't restricted to wow, they bring that crap here when they come.
    I wonder if this is what happened. I haven't seen too many bad groups until lately (I keep rerolling low level characters to try to learn all the role combinations).

    I had someone queue as tank who obviously didn't care to hold aggro and would just laugh when the healer got upset for basically heal-tanking. He told us that it's just a game and to not care so much. Well, when people act like that, they are wasting everyone's time. We kicked him and his annoying guildie dps friend too.

    I've had a healer constantly dishing out insults, which were pretty uncalled for because the group was doing just fine despite someone saying they were new. Finally the tank couldn't take anymore and left, and then the healer re-queued as a tank; still insulting everyone and skipping the quests in IT. Kicked him too.

    OP, don't be afraid to stay your ground, as you can see from my first example, it's possible to kick someone even if they have a buddy. If they end up kicking you before you kick them, they are only screwing themselves out of a tank for at least a short period of time. I would think that the wait, after they wanted to rush everything, would probably make them mad.

  13. #13
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    It's most likely the individuals you encounter are levelling alts, have run Iron Tomb or whatever 957 times already, their main toon is a tank and they can do the dungeon without even looking at the screen. They don't care about the quests - that toon's first run was IT #938 - and don't care about the other players, they just want to race through the thing and collect their loot, then start run # 959.

    There isn't much you can do about this attitude besides dropping the group if they support the behavior. You could try making friends with a healer and queue together with the understanding that if someone else wants to tank the run, someone else can heal, too. After everyone else wipes two or three times maybe they'll get the idea that it's faster to let you do your job, and if they bail on you, it's easier to replace DPS/support than tank/healer.

    I can't wait for solo/duo dungeons to arrive. Most of my characters can heal themselves and/or have a pet to distract enemies, so I'd rather run a dungeon by myself than be forced to put up with that sort of thing.
    Last edited by Ancem; 09-03-2011 at 04:45 AM.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Meeting impatient people(impatient pricks even at times) in instances happens frequently sadly, more so in lower dungeons it seems.*

    As people have stated already and imo too, you should have zero tolerance with it IF you have that option.

    * First 10 mins (vote kick lockout) -*
    you are stuck with members unless you potentially wanna screw over any nice people in your group by leaving. Up until these 10 mins have passed, my advice would be to ignore the troublemaker(s) unless they are causing wipes and stop forward movement. In this case apologize to the rest and leave.

    * 10 plus minutes in -
    At This point I personally go with zero tolerance and vote kick troublemaker at first offense. Chat flaming someone, ninjapulling, being generally unpleasant or whatever *- don't make it a habit to let impatients lower yours or others fun. If group wont agree, you leave with "your back covered"...that is you did what you could.

    The absolute BEST solution to the problem is to always add people that stand out as nice (and are from your server) to friendslist. Then before entering LFD you fill as many spots as you can from that list first. In time you will hopefully only be playing with likeminded players.

    In any case - you're far from alone in thinking impatient players are annoying as hell.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser vertigale's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoofar View Post
    Meeting impatient people(impatient pricks even at times) in instances happens frequently sadly, more so in lower dungeons it seems.*

    As people have stated already and imo too, you should have zero tolerance with it IF you have that option.

    * First 10 mins (vote kick lockout) -*
    you are stuck with members unless you potentially wanna screw over any nice people in your group by leaving. Up until these 10 mins have passed, my advice would be to ignore the troublemaker(s) unless they are causing wipes and stop forward movement. In this case apologize to the rest and leave.

    * 10 plus minutes in -
    At This point I personally go with zero tolerance and vote kick troublemaker at first offense. Chat flaming someone, ninjapulling, being generally unpleasant or whatever *- don't make it a habit to let impatients lower yours or others fun. If group wont agree, you leave with "your back covered"...that is you did what you could.

    The absolute BEST solution to the problem is to always add people that stand out as nice (and are from your server) to friendslist. Then before entering LFD you fill as many spots as you can from that list first. In time you will hopefully only be playing with likeminded players.

    In any case - you're far from alone in thinking impatient players are annoying as hell.
    Yes, this is generally my policy but it's a shame to have to wait another 30 mins go back in when I really haven't done anything wrong. Nothing can be done about this ( unless anyone wants to be my pocket-healer? ;) ) so we have to live with it!

    I suppose I was pretty lucky to level my main before cross-shard LFG and on a shard that has a great community. However, there's little accountability for personal actions with the implementation of LFG. Which is a shame because it's useful! I like the fast queues. I know at this point I'm just rehashing feelings we all have about bad PuGs ;P

    cleric - faeblight - <legacy of the covenant>

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