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Thread: Pulling your own weight in a PUG? Then help a noob in the mid tiers!!!

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    Ascendant Bliter's Avatar
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    Default Pulling your own weight in a PUG? Then help a noob in the mid tiers!!!

    Rift is a fairly easy game to play if you have any MMORPG background. However I still manage to find groups the top tier players would call terribad when I use the LFG. Now as some suggest, I should quit the group or get kicked but I have another idea. I think Rift will be a much better game and have a much better product life with a larger player base. So rather than dump my group, I adjust my pulls or I change my souls so I can either take a beating longer or pull one encouter at a time. The goal is to spoon feed the group a little bit and figure out where we are lacking. If we can get away with no Support role, then we make that change or we can do things like coach someone on a build or where to get better gear. The goal is to keep new players interested in the game and not convince them the entire playerbase is a bunch of rage quitting nerds obsessed with a meaningless game.

    We all play the game for our own reasons and nobody has to help out the noobs, but the game will be better for it if you do. If your a good DPS, respectfully make some suggestions to the lesser player. Same goes for heals. You don't have to give away all your secrets but there really are people who could be better that need your input.

    And if after respectfully making some suggestions you are treated badly, then by all means ask for a vote kick. If the group won't vote kick them, ask them to vote kick you and if that won't work, I am sure there is some laundry that needs folding somewhere in the house. I usually find by the time I am done, my CD is over.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bliter View Post
    Rift is a fairly easy game to play if you have any MMORPG background. However I still manage to find groups the top tier players would call terribad when I use the LFG. Now as some suggest, I should quit the group or get kicked but I have another idea. I think Rift will be a much better game and have a much better product life with a larger player base. So rather than dump my group, I adjust my pulls or I change my souls so I can either take a beating longer or pull one encouter at a time. The goal is to spoon feed the group a little bit and figure out where we are lacking. If we can get away with no Support role, then we make that change or we can do things like coach someone on a build or where to get better gear. The goal is to keep new players interested in the game and not convince them the entire playerbase is a bunch of rage quitting nerds obsessed with a meaningless game.

    We all play the game for our own reasons and nobody has to help out the noobs, but the game will be better for it if you do. If your a good DPS, respectfully make some suggestions to the lesser player. Same goes for heals. You don't have to give away all your secrets but there really are people who could be better that need your input.

    And if after respectfully making some suggestions you are treated badly, then by all means ask for a vote kick. If the group won't vote kick them, ask them to vote kick you and if that won't work, I am sure there is some laundry that needs folding somewhere in the house. I usually find by the time I am done, my CD is over.
    If it's a PuG - keep your mouth shut about someones DPS. No reason to criticize someone you do not know. Also they didn't ask for your advice.

    If you want to help someone out with suggestions about a spec, that is cool - and a good way to help newer players out. But save that for people you hae had a conversation with longer than 30 seconds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    If it's a PuG - keep your mouth shut about someones DPS. No reason to criticize someone you do not know. Also they didn't ask for your advice.

    If you want to help someone out with suggestions about a spec, that is cool - and a good way to help newer players out. But save that for people you hae had a conversation with longer than 30 seconds.
    That's the largest part of the problem right there. If there is advice I can give to someone who is doing terrible then I am going to give it, solicited or not. If they are receptive to that advice then I will help them as best as I can with specs / rotations / whatever. If they answer like you just did then I'll take my ball and go home. Please note advice is not saying "Ur deeps sucks you need to l2play", but rather saying something like "I noticed that you are using tanking soul for DPS and you may be able to increase your damage by trying this soul combination instead".

    It's one thing to be playing bad because you don't know any better. This generally happens with either people who have no MMORPG experience or people who are fresh level 50's and used to soloing vs being in a dungeon. In general these people are usually receptive to constructive advice about how to make their dungeon runs easier. However, if you are not doing good and you either don't care, or think you are and are unwilling to accept someone's advice on how to improve then you are willfully being bad and shouldn't be in my group.
    Last edited by Paerin; 09-02-2011 at 12:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    If it's a PuG - keep your mouth shut about someones DPS. No reason to criticize someone you do not know. Also they didn't ask for your advice.

    If you want to help someone out with suggestions about a spec, that is cool - and a good way to help newer players out. But save that for people you hae had a conversation with longer than 30 seconds.
    Meh, then I'll just drop group. They can find another 14k hp raid-geared tank/DPS :-P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Paerin View Post
    That's the largest part of the problem right there. If there is advice I can give to someone who is doing terrible then I am going to give it, solicited or not. If they are receptive to that advice then I will help them as best as I can with specs / rotations / whatever. If they answer like you just did then I'll take my ball and go home. Please note advice is not saying "Ur deeps sucks you need to l2play", but rather saying something like "I noticed that you are using tanking soul for DPS and you may be able to increase your damage by trying this soul combination instead".

    It's one thing to be playing bad because you don't know any better. This generally happens with either people who have no MMORPG experience or people who are fresh level 50's and used to soloing vs being in a dungeon. In general these people are usually receptive to constructive advice about how to make their dungeon runs easier. However, if you are not doing good and you either don't care, or think you are and are unwilling to accept someone's advice on how to improve then you are willfully being bad and shouldn't be in my group.
    I don't necessarily disagree with you. PuG's are not the place for it. And your first interaction with someone should not be on giving them advice on how to play.

    I have seen more groups get sour, stalled, and eventually fall apart because some know it all decides to open his big fat mouth to a player he met 30 seconds ago, and will likely never see again, because LFD is cross server.

    If you are using a cross server PuG as your sole means of progression, you are in trouble anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    If it's a PuG - keep your mouth shut about someones DPS. No reason to criticize someone you do not know. Also they didn't ask for your advice.

    If you want to help someone out with suggestions about a spec, that is cool - and a good way to help newer players out. But save that for people you hae had a conversation with longer than 30 seconds.
    If their DPS is so bad that it will effect the groups ability to finish the dungeon then I would suggest that they also keep their mouth shut if the person leaves the group.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    I don't necessarily disagree with you. PuG's are not the place for it. And your first interaction with someone should not be on giving them advice on how to play.

    I have seen more groups get sour, stalled, and eventually fall apart because some know it all decides to open his big fat mouth to a player he met 30 seconds ago, and will likely never see again, because LFD is cross server.

    If you are using a cross server PuG as your sole means of progression, you are in trouble anyways.
    If people have a problem with criticism of something with an objective measure, they can shove off and go back to gradeschool. Don't tolerate the currently prevailing "can't criticize or you're being a *******" thing in America (and it really is just an American thing), and won't tolerate it ever.

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    Trying to give advice on the internet doesn't work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunsocks View Post
    If people have a problem with criticism of something with an objective measure, they can shove off and go back to gradeschool. Don't tolerate the currently prevailing "can't criticize or you're being a *******" thing in America (and it really is just an American thing), and won't tolerate it ever.
    Listen - there is a time and place to criticize other players. I agree. Is that place in a Randomly Generated group of 5 people - all of whom are meeting eachother for the first time? I think not.

    I am all for helping out the next guy - and sharing any information I can. But it's better when you have a little rapport with the players in the group already.

    And what is this "Get out of my group attitude". Get over yourself. You did NOTHING to build or recruit the group to get together and go take on the said instance. You were lazy - clicked a random LFD button and were paired up with random people.

    So I repeat. Just keep your mouth shut and quietly bow out of the group. Sick and tired of hearing pissing and moaning from know-it-all, guildless kids, trying to use the LFD as their only means to gear up to raid.

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    I admire your spirit.

    My experience has been that constructive advice is usually met with "s.t.fu. I know what Im doing!!"

    I dont mind carrying low dpsers but Ive learned to just keep quiet for the most part.
    IMHO The help your describing has to come from someone they trust like a guildmate, otherwise they tend to think you are ripping on them no matter how carefully you make your suggestions.
    Last edited by Chovie; 09-02-2011 at 01:08 PM.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chovie View Post
    I admire your spirit.

    My experience has been that constructive advice is usually met with "s.t.fu. I know what Im doing!!"

    I dont mind carrying low dpsers but Ive learned to just keep quiet for the most part.
    IMHO The help your describing has to come from someone they trust like a guildmate, otherwise they tend to think you are ripping on them no matter how carefully you make your suggestions.
    Exactly Chovie

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    Listen - there is a time and place to criticize other players. I agree. Is that place in a Randomly Generated group of 5 people - all of whom are meeting eachother for the first time? I think not.

    I am all for helping out the next guy - and sharing any information I can. But it's better when you have a little rapport with the players in the group already.

    And what is this "Get out of my group attitude". Get over yourself. You did NOTHING to build or recruit the group to get together and go take on the said instance. You were lazy - clicked a random LFD button and were paired up with random people.

    So I repeat. Just keep your mouth shut and quietly bow out of the group. Sick and tired of hearing pissing and moaning from know-it-all, guildless kids, trying to use the LFD as their only means to gear up to raid.
    Go back to gradeschool then. There is neither a time nor a place that is exclusive to criticism. If we are working together towards a goal, it is your job to do your best, as it is mine. It is also both of our jobs to help the other person do their best, and to point out where they are weak. If you can't play with a team, please, go back to gradeschool and learn that skill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunsocks View Post
    Go back to gradeschool then. There is neither a time nor a place that is exclusive to criticism. If we are working together towards a goal, it is your job to do your best, as it is mine. It is also both of our jobs to help the other person do their best, and to point out where they are weak. If you can't play with a team, please, go back to gradeschool and learn that skill.
    I'm so glad I don't use the LFD tool very much. My brother and I use it to usually pick up 1 extra player, as we usually have a couple of friends on too.

    In rare cases it is just he and I. And without fail every time we have to pick up 3 from LFD - there is some jackhole DPS'ers measuring their epeens about DPS.

    My brother and I play tank and heal role. We just both leave right away as soon as any of this type of conversation starts. It is not enjoyable to listen to, or read.

    Do what you guys want, I could care less I suppose. But then we will keep seeing more threads about why there are never any tanks in Q for LFD.

    It's because there are always a couple morons like this in there, that take the enjoyment out of the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    I'm so glad I don't use the LFD tool very much. My brother and I use it to usually pick up 1 extra player, as we usually have a couple of friends on too.

    In rare cases it is just he and I. And without fail every time we have to pick up 3 from LFD - there is some jackhole DPS'ers measuring their epeens about DPS.

    My brother and I play tank and heal role. We just both leave right away as soon as any of this type of conversation starts. It is not enjoyable to listen to, or read.

    Do what you guys want, I could care less I suppose. But then we will keep seeing more threads about why there are never any tanks in Q for LFD.

    It's because there are always a couple morons like this in there, that take the enjoyment out of the game.
    There's a difference between ePeening and noticing others are doing terribly. I don't do the former (I keep my DPS measurements to myself unless they're particularly interesting), and I usually won't post them at others' request unless they're trying to figure out how they're doing (in which case, they really should download the thing themselves). But you better believe I'm running a meter on a dungeon run to see when someone's screwing up, and am gonna point it out to them. THEY take all the enjoyment out of the game, as we wipe 6 times on a DPS check.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunsocks View Post
    There's a difference between ePeening and noticing others are doing terribly. I don't do the former (I keep my DPS measurements to myself unless they're particularly interesting), and I usually won't post them at others' request unless they're trying to figure out how they're doing (in which case, they really should download the thing themselves). But you better believe I'm running a meter on a dungeon run to see when someone's screwing up, and am gonna point it out to them. THEY take all the enjoyment out of the game, as we wipe 6 times on a DPS check.
    Blame Trion for hacking up the soul system that they advertised to players to be able to have any soul combination
    Last edited by Skidrow Bro; 09-02-2011 at 01:28 PM.
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