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Thread: Joloral aggro

  1. #1
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    Default Joloral aggro

    This has been happening to me since DH launch. I'm a fully raid geared warrior tank sitting right above 14k hp self buffed. I use 51vk as my normal go-to spec for almost every boss in GSB, GP and DH. Joloral, however, drops aggro on me every. single. time. i use 51 vk.

    It's not the bug buff killing folks, he just dumps me and eats a random raid member, dps/healer/support, it doesnt matter.

    If i switch to a different build (still using spotters/BA for threat) I have no issues. Try it with 51vk, lose aggro. We even tested it by having me drop 10x 1-pt spotters on him, and I lost aggro in about 45 sec to a ~1000 dps sab that was incriminating me. I also have no threat issues on any other boss across the 3 raids, or aoe pulls including the 10x pull before DH last boss.

    Just wondering if anyone else has this issue? It's not that bad to use a different build for him, but I cant figure out this threat thing.
    Last edited by Corebot; 09-01-2011 at 11:09 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corebot View Post
    This has been happening to me since DH launch. I'm a fully raid geared warrior tank sitting right above 14k hp self buffed. I use 51vk as my normal go-to spec for almost every boss in GSB, GP and DH. Joloral, however, drops aggro on me every. single. time. i use 51 vk.

    It's not the bug buff killing folks, he just dumps me and eats a random raid member, dps/healer/support, it doesnt matter.

    If i switch to a different build (still using spotters/BA for threat) I have no issues. Try it with 51vk, lose aggro. We even tested it by having me drop 10x 1-pt spotters on him, and I lost aggro in about 45 sec to a ~1000 dps sab that was incriminating me. I also have no threat issues on any other boss across the 3 raids, or aoe pulls including the 10x pull before DH last boss.

    Just wondering if anyone else has this issue? It's not that bad to use a different build for him, but I cant figure out this threat thing.
    I've never tested 1pt Spotter's on a single target fight, mostly because it's pointless, so I don't know if it generates less threat or more threat than your regular attacks+retaliation, then 3 pt Spotter's.

    I think you're not opening the fight properly. Don't open with a taunt, per se. Try discharge/Spotters then your macro of what should be Aggressive block/retaliation/reckless strike, followed by 3 pt Spotter's each time. If you're still having threat issues you can weave in a taunt every so often to make sure no one is getting too far ahead of you.

    EDIT: it's a longshot indeed, but...did you make sure you had battlefield awareness up?
    Last edited by Ahov; 09-01-2011 at 01:45 PM.

  3. #3
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    Try opening with Discharge and then spark. It works 100% of the time 100% of the time.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    If you're still having threat issues you can weave in a taunt every so often to make sure no one is getting too far ahead of you.
    NO! a taunt simply levels your threat-level to the one who is currently leading. if you have aggro and you taunt you mimic your own threat, force the mob to attack you for three seconds and add one to the DR of taunts... which usually results in you losing aggro the second the mob is immune to taunts.
    If the mob requires a tank-switch you must not taunt if it's not your turn to get the mob on you.

    If you open with a taunt it only forces the mob to attack you, if the taunt made dmg ( it's usually less than any "real" attack would have done) this is all threat you really get, if you open with a no-dmg-taunt you waste at least a gcd - maybe it would have been better to body pull instead ^^ (but I don't know this and have no test on this ^^)

    Do you lose aggro to your add-tank (if you have one) ? maybe he aoe-taunts ("because f*ck you, that's why" ^^). If you mentioned that you will hold aggro no matter what someone like me would unequip the aggro-reduce sigil and make you eat your words :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oktabi View Post
    NO! a taunt simply levels your threat-level to the one who is currently leading. if you have aggro and you taunt you mimic your own threat, force the mob to attack you for three seconds and add one to the DR of taunts... which usually results in you losing aggro the second the mob is immune to taunts.
    If the mob requires a tank-switch you must not taunt if it's not your turn to get the mob on you.

    If you open with a taunt it only forces the mob to attack you, if the taunt made dmg ( it's usually less than any "real" attack would have done) this is all threat you really get, if you open with a no-dmg-taunt you waste at least a gcd - maybe it would have been better to body pull instead ^^ (but I don't know this and have no test on this ^^)

    Do you lose aggro to your add-tank (if you have one) ? maybe he aoe-taunts ("because f*ck you, that's why" ^^). If you mentioned that you will hold aggro no matter what someone like me would unequip the aggro-reduce sigil and make you eat your words :P
    You're wrong, sorry.

    Someone pulls threat at 130% of the current aggro-holder's threat. If I throw in a taunt, it means I'm at 100% and everyone else is 100% or lower. They would need to generate 30% more than my threat (without me doing anything) to steal the boss. For example, if we're five minutes into a boss fight, I can just taunt and do nothing for quite a while, and aggro won't be lost.

    Also, you're adding some information, that while may be correct, is completely irrelevant to the fight. There is no tank swap on Joloral, so there's nothing wrong with throwing in a taunt every so often. (That is, if you understand how taunts work)
    Last edited by Ahov; 09-01-2011 at 02:23 PM.

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    Reference to patch 1.3 notes:

    * NPCs now have a higher aggro threshold required to make them switch targets within melee range.

    Previously melee could steal aggro at 110% threat, meaning it was a bit harder to hold aggro against them. Now, barring nay bugs, it's much easier to hold aggro.

  7. #7
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    I'm not taunt spamming, BA is definitely up, and aggro is not usually an issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    I've never tested 1pt Spotter's on a single target fight, mostly because it's pointless, so I don't know if it generates less threat or more threat than your regular attacks+retaliation, then 3 pt Spotter's.

    I think you're not opening the fight properly. Don't open with a taunt, per se. Try discharge/Spotters then your macro of what should be Aggressive block/retaliation/reckless strike, followed by 3 pt Spotter's each time. If you're still having threat issues you can weave in a taunt every so often to make sure no one is getting too far ahead of you.

    EDIT: it's a longshot indeed, but...did you make sure you had battlefield awareness up?
    For the above poster, 1 pt spotters is = 3 pt spotters for threat generation (6 x endurance) care of Ciderhelm's research. The reason I even mentioned that is 10x 1pt spotters is a ton of threat to get ahead of dps, only to lose aggro to a healer of all things? Also, according to threat testing, reckless strike has no multiplier even though it explicitly states that it does. This may have been fixed, but as of 1.3 testing it does not have a threat multiplier. Most other tanking AP builders have ~5.5x threat



    The main problem here is JUST joloral, JUST when using 51 vk. as i said, any other spec in this fight, no aggro issues. Using 51vk in any other fight, no aggro issues.

    There is something about me, 51vk, and joloral that do not mix well. I am just curious if anyone else has seen this before.
    Last edited by Corebot; 09-01-2011 at 02:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Corebot View Post
    I'm not taunt spamming, BA is definitely up, and aggro is not usually an issue.



    For the above poster, 1 pt spotters is = 3 pt spotters for threat generation (6 x endurance) care of Ciderhelm's research. The reason I even mentioned that is 10x 1pt spotters is a ton of threat to get ahead of dps, only to lose aggro to a healer of all things? Also, according to threat testing, reckless strike has no multiplier even though it explicitly states that it does. This may have been fixed, but as of 1.3 testing it does not have a threat multiplier. Most other tanking AP builders have ~5.5x threat



    The main problem here is JUST joloral, JUST when using 51 vk. as i said, any other spec in this fight, no aggro issues. Using 51vk in any other fight, no aggro issues.

    There is something about me, 51vk, and joloral that do not mix well. I am just curious if anyone else has seen this before.
    Reckless strike certainly generates extra threat. If it did not, I'd lose aggro pretty quick in my reaver hybrid build.

    Also, yes....I know 1 pt spotter's generates as much as 3. What I do not know (because I haven't tested it) is if it generates as much threat as spamming reckless strike x3, then Spotter's.
    Last edited by Ahov; 09-01-2011 at 02:49 PM.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Corebot View Post
    This has been happening to me since DH launch. I'm a fully raid geared warrior tank sitting right above 14k hp self buffed. I use 51vk as my normal go-to spec for almost every boss in GSB, GP and DH. Joloral, however, drops aggro on me every. single. time. i use 51 vk.

    It's not the bug buff killing folks, he just dumps me and eats a random raid member, dps/healer/support, it doesnt matter.

    If i switch to a different build (still using spotters/BA for threat) I have no issues. Try it with 51vk, lose aggro. We even tested it by having me drop 10x 1-pt spotters on him, and I lost aggro in about 45 sec to a ~1000 dps sab that was incriminating me. I also have no threat issues on any other boss across the 3 raids, or aoe pulls including the 10x pull before DH last boss.

    Just wondering if anyone else has this issue? It's not that bad to use a different build for him, but I cant figure out this threat thing.
    Funny, our tank had the same problem in the last run we did (about 1,5weeks ago), but i didn't depite using nearly the same spec as he did. we couldn't figure it out so i just tanked it with one of the clerics.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    Reckless strike certainly generates extra threat. If it did not, I'd lose aggro pretty quick in my reaver hybrid build.

    Also, yes....I know 1 pt spotter's generates as much as 3. What I do not know (because I haven't tested it) is if it generates as much threat as spamming reckless strike x3, then Spotter's.
    Even if reckless has a x6 threat multiplier, which I don't think it does, it would have to be doing 800+ damage to out-threat 1 point Spotter's, assuming your endurance is at any reasonable level.
    Last edited by tordana; 09-01-2011 at 07:10 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tordana View Post
    Even if reckless has a x6 threat multiplier, which I don't think it does, it would have to be doing 800+ damage to out-threat 1 point Spotter's, assuming your endurance is at any reasonable level.
    And yet the OP is losing aggro while spamming spotter's, while I generally only refresh it once every 20 seconds and have no issues on Joloral.

    There are either diminishing returns on Battlefield Awareness threat or the OP is doing it wrong.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    happened to me,

    tank in the stairs, find a corner, cycle sergeant order and shield throw everytime ajny1 is up

    loot

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ahov View Post
    You're wrong, sorry.

    Someone pulls threat at 130% of the current aggro-holder's threat. If I throw in a taunt, it means I'm at 100% and everyone else is 100% or lower. They would need to generate 30% more than my threat (without me doing anything) to steal the boss. For example, if we're five minutes into a boss fight, I can just taunt and do nothing for quite a while, and aggro won't be lost.

    Also, you're adding some information, that while may be correct, is completely irrelevant to the fight. There is no tank swap on Joloral, so there's nothing wrong with throwing in a taunt every so often. (That is, if you understand how taunts work)
    I'm not quite sure that's how the tuant works.

    where did you get that info?


    I've never had aggro issues on Joloral in any build, so I would think that the OP is doing it wrong.
    Last edited by Skaer; 09-01-2011 at 09:19 PM.
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