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Thread: Zilas, The claimed RNG and what the hell is wrong with this boss.

  1. #1
    Champion of Telara
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    Default Zilas, The claimed RNG and what the hell is wrong with this boss.

    So, we just 1 shotted Zilas on the new reset after wiping 3 (4 i think?) raid nights on him.

    What i have noticed about this insanely annoying terrible boss:

    Every single raid night went like this:

    Try 1: Maximum 6 mages, during 10 minutes..Wiped because of a fail at 5%

    Try 2:Maximum 6 mages, during 10minutes wiped because of people failing at beam generally suddenly ;D

    Try 3 to 20: Mage at 60% then a new mage every 40 seconds or something, 10-15 mages every single try.

    This wasnt on one night, it was on every raid night.

    Today, we went there..0 fails on beams, nothing new that we always do..First try he goes like this.

    Mage at 70% instead of the usual 60% we get him...second mage at 45% or so, like over a minute or more away..generally we got like maximum 5 mages counting the 6th when the boss died so easily, only because he didnt go MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE, giving us time to actually DPS him a bit.

    Note that we did fail at interrupt the imp once, and the boss healed but that didnt affect the mages spawning eve for the extra time needed to dps that, there barely was any up most of the time.

    So whats the deal?

    Is it really that RNG or is it "You get a few tries to kill him then we cockblock you?"

    If it happened randomly it would be awesome but it was like this every raid night for us...First try and maybe second try a mage whenever it remembered, and after that try an insane amount of mages.

    We literally once had a mage coming behind an already stunned mage after a laser..

    Mage spawning same time as laser gets announced-->Mage stunned during laser -->Go and kill the mage right after the laser ended and as the mage is dying, another one has spawned and almost reached us at the same exact lane.

    That was in 30 seconds of each other..I mean what the hell?

    What i dont understand is..If it was really RNG how come we never get a try of 6 mages only or generally NOT MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE-->MAGE during our wipes but only the first tries of every raid night?

    A person in my guild today did notice that we generally stayed at middle longer since we tweaked our fight a bit more, and generally 0 fails at the beam.Could deaths and amount of people affect his "RNG?" Does he have some secret "not enough people at mid, here is an extra mage!" mechanic or something? :S
    Last edited by potis; 08-31-2011 at 02:41 PM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant
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    In general we noticed the same type of pattern, there are 2 very distinct patterns like you listed. If we get a magus before 60% there, generally, will be very few magus that run. If we don't get a Magus until the first laser comes almost guaranteed (even though our first win was on this pattern) that, as part of the Magus team, I will be doing back to back Magus the rest of the fight until under 20%. I don't think theres some theory like you're discussing in your last sentence, it just has 2-3 scenarios...rolls a dice and thats what you get. It's not truly random as if every mob has a number and every spot is randomed. Not how it works, its definitely 2-3 scenarios each time you engage that are possible.
    Last edited by Bluelightt; 08-31-2011 at 02:56 PM.

  3. #3
    Rift Chaser
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    We just killed this guy for our first time last night.

    It took us around 2 full raid nights of progression/learning/etc.

    We have noticed much of the same, pretty sure it's RNG.

    We have experienced no maguses until 40%.
    We have experienced 3+ maguses above 60% (Same RDPS).

    We have had the boss to ~20% within 5 minutes, and we've had the boss at ~40% at 10 minutes.

    It seems to be a very large cup of RNG, but proper management/execution cuts your 'chances' of getting RNG'd down pretty heavily.

    It should be noted that we did have one wipe with the boss at ~15% with 5 maguses up at the same exact time. Two in the upper roads, 3 in the lower roads; all at once; within `10-15 seconds of each other. We lol'd and tried to just zerg Zilas. Ended up wiping. *Shrug*

  4. #4
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    Thats my point, and the fight is completely ******ed.

    If we get 5-6 mages = Fight is doable.

    When we get Mage after mage from 60% and after, the boss is still at 30% after 5 minutes and we have killed 10 mages the whole raid is running back and forth Mages-->Laser-->Spirits-->Mage + Laser-->Mage -->Mage +Laser.

    Its completely ******ed and needs to be changed, doesnt have to be RNG they should figure out a way to make this fight be less RNGish and actually fun.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Runkett's Avatar
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    It stupid that mages are random at all, but they should at least increase the cooldown on when they can be summoned so you only have to deal with one per phase.

    I understand the chaos aspect they are going for, and that some guilds can do it fine, but currently it is way too easy for the fight to become too hard for a decent guild.

    We can clear GSB and RoS in one night, but are smashing our heads against this wall harder than we should be.

    Minor fix (nerf) time plx.

  6. #6
    Ascendant Cromagis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    So, we just 1 shotted Zilas on the new reset after wiping 3 (4 i think?) raid nights on him.

    What i have noticed about this insanely annoying terrible boss:
    How do you 1shot Zilas

    but wipe 3 or 4 times. :3

    Didn't make sense

    But yes he's RNG
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  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara
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    Like any fight that involves random, it's a measure of how well you deal with the unexpected/difficult in the random. When you learn how to do it easily and remain calm/keep things called, you'll find he's really, really easy, no matter how many maguses he throws at you. Of the 30 or so wipes it took us on that guy, I'd say it was maybe 3 that were genuinely us getting screwed by the RNG and having one of the REALLY hard combos. The rest were avoidable, someone just screwed up when we had a hard part.

    It's an RNG fight, but doing it properly means the RNG isn't hard.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    How do you 1shot Zilas

    but wipe 3 or 4 times. :3

    Didn't make sense

    But yes he's RNG

    You cant read well apparently O_o.

    "We one shotted zilas on the new reset"

    As in Wednesday, as in the day i made this post and yesterday as i am posting this.

    While we wiped on him on last Monday/Sunday/Half Thursday and the 2 resets ago Monday.

    So yes thats 3-4 raid nights and an one shot this week, wouldnt you think?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrFunsocks View Post
    Like any fight that involves random, it's a measure of how well you deal with the unexpected/difficult in the random. When you learn how to do it easily and remain calm/keep things called, you'll find he's really, really easy, no matter how many maguses he throws at you. Of the 30 or so wipes it took us on that guy, I'd say it was maybe 3 that were genuinely us getting screwed by the RNG and having one of the REALLY hard combos. The rest were avoidable, someone just screwed up when we had a hard part.

    It's an RNG fight, but doing it properly means the RNG isn't hard.
    The dual magus arent the issue, sure we can get the loose 40% remaining magus and run to the new one that just got stunned.

    How about the fact that when we get 2 mages, one at the bridge during the laser phase, one incoming that moment, and 2 spirits up at the same time then yes, i am sorry to say that its really bad rng.

    Its ******ed how RNG heavy this fight is, cause its not hard by itself..But when he does:

    Mage-->Call for laser-->Spawn spirits at the same time-->New mage as soon as laser is over, you get deaths by the spirits/Dark Volley bla bla when you keep going, and as you are trying to catch the second mage because your ranged had to kill spirits it sends a new mage, 3 mages in less than a minute, and of course you cant nuke that mage, the laser phase comes and as soon as the laser phase ends a new mage.

    We have gone pretty much 5-8mins fighting only mages and trying to keep up with the spawn rate, the only thing it resulted was: Boss went from 45% to 37% in a duration of 5 minutes if note more, there was no chance for the DPS to do anything since all we got was a mage every 30 seconds or so.

    My point isnt that. my point is why the hell is this boss so RNG?

    We had..what? 40-50 wipes on him? Out of those 50 wipes he spawned maybe 3 or 4 times 6 mages, every other try we had 2 mages up in less than a minute and like total of 10 + mages in 6-8mins, combined with generally a huge stream of adds.

    Today there were barely any Mages, 5 max the 6th was running when Zilas died, we saw spirits maybe 4 times and generally the stream of adds was MUCH MUCH lower than all the wipes we had on Monday/Sunday since they are fresh in the brain and the boss was 5 times easier than any of the wipes we had during those 4 raid nights.
    Last edited by potis; 08-31-2011 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by potis View Post
    How about the fact that when we get 2 mages, one at the bridge during the laser phase, one incoming that moment, and 2 spirits up at the same time then yes, i am sorry to say that its really bad rng.
    Still an easily doable situation if you do it right. First off, the one on the bridge should be at low HP, or you've already screwed up. Then you have 1 guy on each spirit with an interrupt DPSing 'em down, with some aid while running around, and get the 2nd magus stunned. Coordinate the right amount of DPS onto the first magus depending on its health (probably 2-3 plus your cleavers), and have the remaining raid members get the 2nd magus down. You should have both down and be safely back in the middle before the next AoE.

    Proper management = not RNG.

  11. #11
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    The only part of RNG about the fight is getting unlucky mage spawns, but managed properly that WONT wipe you, your crystal duty people just have to be really on the ball with the stuns if you get unlucky like that

    I wouldnt say the fight is RNG based on if you will beat him or not, cause thats simply not true, even with really bad mage luck he is pretty cutt and dry on if you beat him or not, does it make the fight alot harder and annoying? yes it sure does getting mages back to back to back, because that means less focus time on Zilas which prolongs the length you are fighting him, which means more chances for ghosts to screw things up, more time for a little tiny screw up to cause a wipe.

    However like alot of things so far in RIFT raiding, good dps reduces if not eliminates most "RNG" out of boss fights, if you have rockin dps even if a mage gets by with 100% health hes still dropable, is it a beyocth? yea especially if bad timeing with a beam phase, but its still doable
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  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    As my english is not my first language, ill try to make a good answer to help u with zilas fight and that stupid RNG.

    The most important is to have enough dps to phase him fast. Yeah! didnt anyone told u? Its 100% right, and i dont care what people can say after i post that "tactic" to fight RNG on Zilas.

    Im sure u know that he change in some %, 80%, 60%, 20% are the big changes, if u have a nice dps, between 100% to 50% only 1 magus will spawn, maybe 2 if u are unlucky. We as normaly have one after 60%.. around 55%, we stun twice and kill after first beam. If u have 2 magus, the first will come around 65%.

    50% - 23%: Focus your dps on zilas, and dont waster your raid dps running behind magus if they arnt close to platform, use a good caller on TS telling people when run to kill magus without lose dps and always stun twice. Be sure to DONT DOWN ZILAS TO 20% (and thats very IMPORTANT) if u have some magus alive, stop your dps if needed on Zilas!!

    20% - 0%: Burn boss, maybe one magus will spawn around 13%, if u have good dps dont need to kill it, we arnt killing black shade neither, just burn boss, if u miss some dps, u can kill shade and/or kill magus or just stun, your choice.

    Hope i help u. BB GL

  13. #13
    Telaran
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    Well said.

    /thread

  14. #14
    Plane Touched
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    just wait until molinar to complain about rng
    Last edited by Unicornpower; 09-01-2011 at 07:37 AM.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker
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    I cant disagree with the OP and (against the thought of others) good rng=win bad rng =loss

    There is no consistancy at all of % vs Magus or qty

    We have had the 1st magus at 64% We have had the first magus at 78% We have gotten 6 Magus before 20% and we have gotten 10 before 20%

    We have had 1 up at a time and we have had 3 back to back to back during beam

    Our raid dps is constant for the most part the difference in attempts is completely negligible

    I wouldnt quite put this in the annoying category of Johlen in our first attempts but hes certainly competitive

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