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Thread: Cross server LFG is a disaster

  1. #211
    Rift Chaser Iskevosi's Avatar
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    Back on track of the Topic.

    I've spent the last two nights sat in the LFG and nothing popped up before I logged to go to bed. Oh, tell a lie, one did last night AS I was logging off!

    I login a little late and find my guild is already in a Group (not a large amount of members) and so the LFG is my only hope... or was!

    Getting to a point where this game will become pointless to me.

  2. #212
    Plane Touched infestation871's Avatar
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    it already is

  3. #213
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noaani View Post
    I've never said the LFG system failed totally, I said it is not working for everyone, and any system that only partially works is not working well enough. As a result, it needs adajustments.
    I concede the point on that, I mis-remembered what your original post said. However, I still believe your point to be false, a system doesn't have to be perfect to be considered working.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noaani View Post
    Second, I have actually argued against any form of reward for people queuing as tanks, as it doesn't provide for a long term solution. Whether it is in WoW or not is against the point - the real issue is will it work in Rift. The answer to that is no.
    You meantioned improving the experience for the tank, I took that to mean increasing the rewards in some way as that is what the majority of the players clamor for when discussing the subject. If you meant something else then please elaborate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Noaani View Post
    Third, people will run 10 mans in pick up groups if the LFG system has a listing for it. Also, I am not suggesting they consider these to be raids, I am suggesting they implement them in place of 5 man content and that Trion consider them to be group content (if Trion consider it group content, set the difficulty as group content, and the rewards as group content, it is group content - regardless of the number of people needed). The only thing players will look at is how hard the content is, how long it takes, how long they need to queue, and what the potential rewards are.
    So basically you're asking for DH and GP to be included in the LFD tool or for them to design and build completely new 10 mans, which as already mentioned will take considerable amounts of time and still wont actually fix the problem of there not being enough tanks.

  4. #214
    Ascendant Landru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatorex View Post
    Let's be honest. If you only flag for dps when you could be flagging for other roles (support/heal/tank), you deserve a longer wait.

    It's not Trions fault that you decided to only find out what 3 of your souls do.
    Ok, so since I flag as support and dps I don't deserve longer wait times, yet I have them o' wise one.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

  5. #215
    Ascendant Landru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noaani View Post
    They have no researchers in house, even Blizzard doesn't have researchers.

    In fact, no one is specifically researching anything at all to do with MMO's in a scientific manner right now, other than graduate students.
    Prove it.

    You've made the statement, and therefore it is in no way any one else's respsonsibility to prove this is not the case. Where is your supporting data?

    Also, please elaborate on what you consider the word research and the phrase scientific manner to mean.
    Last edited by Landru; 08-25-2011 at 05:02 AM.
    I know that you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant

  6. #216
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopp View Post
    Yeah they did it in WoW. It helped the queue times of course but the side effects were:
    - people with raid gear who were there to just get their emblems (or whatever they were called) vote kicked the guy with low gear (who was there obviously to get gear) so they could get a geared replacement and finish the dungeon faster
    This isn't WoW of course but do not players still have a right to make decisions about who you group with or once you queue do you simply have to deal with whatever the queue throws at you, even if it is a guy that is actually undergeared as occurs now? I just LOVE when I am trying to figure out why the dpser is doing 300 dps in a t2 or the tank is dropping to trash when I see 600 hps and I see they are wearing a few blues with greens runed up to give them minimum stats

    - if they didn't vote kick you then the run was literally running without stopping once and AoE zerging everything, completely ignoring fight mechanics as the group was greatly overgeared for the instance
    Well this is a risk with the current queue any way I fail to see the relevance. Until they introduce more 5 man content you will always have people over geared. Remember being in full t2 medans you are raid ready so you are over geared. Not everyone geared like this is a raider and they will keep doing t2s until new dungeons come out. Since the nerfing of the t2's to accommodate the lfd tool these people are easily bypassing certain scripts. Heck there are in game achievements for pulling it off.

    - the more moronic types were even rolling need on everything saying they need money for raiding and according to them noone would have actually needed said items anyways.

    So it completly ruined the experience for new players.
    Well this last is still a risk now and already happens.

    Regretably the tool is not designed for one "type" of player. It has it's good points and bad. If people want to encourage tanks and healers to queue in order to speed up queues there will be negative consequences for somebody because everything has negatives along with positives. This dynamic is usually most obvious when it comes to convenience tools.
    Last edited by Galibier; 08-25-2011 at 05:07 AM.

  7. #217
    Ascendant Galibier's Avatar
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    @Nooani

    I only have a few issues with your idea of making a dungeon difficultied 10 man.

    My first issue is that I think finally we need to call shennanigans. I remember in EQ2, I assume WoW was similar, where dpsers would justify their CHOICE to not tank. People would whine about being dps and not being able to find raid slots or that when they answered lfm calls in chat by saying "I have a life and can't level multiple alts. I can only focus on one class and it's dps".
    Rift allows every calling to either tank or heal. I think it's time to get people to step up and take esponsibility for their choice and make that tank/healer role or accept the fact they are going to have a wait.

    My second issue is the emo. I can see it now. People queue for a 10 man, go through the zones and then emo out that their rewards aren't that for the 10 man. I am actually expecting it when they introduce master mode. There is already the BS "haves vs have nots" crap here. The minute you blur the lines with having different difficultied 5 man or 10 man content is that people see it and the rewards as "theirs." Eq2 again had a similar thing. In RoK you had Maidens, in TSO you had PoF and Outer Vaults, in Sf you had Erudian Palace. These were 5 mans basically designed for the people that straddled the line betwee dungeon runner and raider due to mechanis or class requirement. "Regular" dungeon runners got all bent because they thought all 5 man content should be for "them". The minute the "regular" dungeon runner sees 10 man content as "their" content 10 man raid content will become a point of contention

  8. #218
    Telaran Greatorex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landru View Post
    Ok, so since I flag as support and dps I don't deserve longer wait times, yet I have them o' wise one.
    Well any monkey can do dps. It takes somebody with concentration and the knowledge of what their class does to heal or tank things. And then they also have that responsibility on them the entire run to make sure things don't go wrong, where as the dps do not have any burden whatsoever on their shoulders. Support is pretty easy too in a 5man.

    So why should dps get fast queue times when we all know that every class can multi-role a dungeon? If anything this should be a kick in the bum to them to stop whining about their queue times, learn their other callings and then the queue times will get even faster for everybody.
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  9. #219
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    This isn't WoW of course but do not players still have a right to make decisions about who you group with or once you queue do you simply have to deal with whatever the queue throws at you, even if it is a guy that is actually undergeared as occurs now? I just LOVE when I am trying to figure out why the dpser is doing 300 dps in a t2 or the tank is dropping to trash when I see 600 hps and I see they are wearing a few blues with greens runed up to give them minimum stats
    I think the minimum stats for T2 are too low and that's causing your problem and I agree that people in green gear should not queue up for a T2. But having the gear that is intended for the dungeon and still getting kicked because others in mostly BiS gear think you would slow down their grind for the Greater Mark is not cool. That was happening in WoW and I'm pretty sure that would happen in Rift as well if they added a Greater Mark quest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Well this is a risk with the current queue any way I fail to see the relevance. Until they introduce more 5 man content you will always have people over geared. Remember being in full t2 medans you are raid ready so you are over geared. Not everyone geared like this is a raider and they will keep doing t2s until new dungeons come out. Since the nerfing of the t2's to accommodate the lfd tool these people are easily bypassing certain scripts. Heck there are in game achievements for pulling it off.
    That's true but not to that much extent. T2 geared people doing T2 is different then mostly full HK geared people trying to grind the last piece of their armor doing T2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galibier View Post
    Regretably the tool is not designed for one "type" of player. It has it's good points and bad. If people want to encourage tanks and healers to queue in order to speed up queues there will be negative consequences for somebody because everything has negatives along with positives. This dynamic is usually most obvious when it comes to convenience tools.
    I wasn't around when the "call for role" or something like that was implemented in WoW but I've heard that their queue system checks which roles are needed the most (which is mostly tank and healer ofc) and you get extra reward if you sign up as the most needed role for a random dungeon. If you threw an additional plaque or two at tanks when there are enough healers and dpses in the queue but the group can't be formed due to lack of a tank then people would probably sign as tank more often. Tanks or healers get extra stuff, dpses have shorter queue times, so it seems to a be a win-win situation. Of course - as you mentioned as well - there is always a negative side effect: people with crap tank gear would sign up as well. The question is which is worse? Running with a crap tank or not running at all?

  10. #220
    Shield of Telara Jawsnap's Avatar
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    This is incredible... one or two little things drive people away from a game that launched 6 months ago...

    Get a grip - there's years of development to happen yet before even a large majority of players are at least slightly happy with the game's state.

    It's. 6. Months. Old.

    You know how many people threatened to leave WoW in it's first 6 months? Look at them now, 5 years on - still virgins, with no girlfriends/wives, living in their parents basements still addicted to their level 85 night elf warrior, nearly a thousand dollars down from subscriptions.

    Rift is going to be WAY more successful than WoW was in it's 5 year run. Blizzard are struggling to give the players something new. Rift is only just getting started. New content, more updates, actually GIVING things to players for very little effort.

    It keeps the players coming back... and trust me, anyone who says "waaaah... i'm bored, i hate lfg, i quit, *cry cry cry*" - you'll be back.

  11. #221
    Rift Master KaiHeilos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jawsnap View Post
    actually GIVING things to players for very little effort.
    Worst. Argument. Ever.

  12. #222
    Shield of Telara Jawsnap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KaiHeilos View Post
    Worst. Argument. Ever.
    How is it? Players love free sh*t. It keeps them coming back.

    Show me a time where you havn't been happy at getting something in your mailbox from Trion? Even for just downloading and using the friggin' Auth App, you get a title.

  13. #223
    Sword of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greatorex View Post
    Well any monkey can do dps.
    This comment is unreal. A good DPS rotation is not easy, and has to be adjusted for the circumstance.

    There has been several comments in the other thread on how healing was easier than DPS, since I said I was not a good healer, but very good at DPS.

    I'm guessing you play a tank, right? Let's see you do your groups as DPS exclusively, and then come back here and call us monkeys.
    Last edited by Gill; 08-25-2011 at 08:03 AM. Reason: rude

  14. #224
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDTAdmin View Post
    This comment is unreal. A good DPS rotation is not easy, and has to be adjusted for the circumstance.

    There has been several comments in the other thread on how healing was easier than DPS, since I said I was not a good healer, but very good at DPS.

    I'm guessing you play a tank, right? Let's see you do your groups as DPS exclusively, and then come back here and call us monkeys.
    Healing easier than DPS ? Im sick of PUGS where DPS slack, if i slack somone dies, but DPS can do as they please it seems.
    Last edited by Gill; 08-25-2011 at 08:04 AM. Reason: Reply to a post that was edited

  15. #225
    Telaran Greatorex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDTAdmin View Post
    This comment is unreal. A good DPS rotation is not easy, and has to be adjusted for the circumstance.

    There has been several comments in the other thread on how healing was easier than DPS, since I said I was not a good healer, but very good at DPS.

    I'm guessing you play a tank, right? Let's see you do your groups as DPS exclusively, and then come back here and call us monkeys.
    I play tank, support, healing and dps.

    DPS is easy peasey. Healing is a pain in t2 for me but I have done that the most. Just started tanking and thats ok, and support is just easy too.
    Last edited by Gill; 08-25-2011 at 08:05 AM. Reason: Reply to a post that was edited
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