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Thread: Opinions on 6 person party size

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Opinions on 6 person party size

    I'm not sure how many other MMOs have a party size of 6, but I played Aion and it did. I thought it was a very cool solution to the tank/healer/dps ratio problem that every MMO ever has had.

    Just wondering what people would think about the next round of "5-man instances" being tuned for 6 people. It still is a small group. It's basically the same difficulty as a 5 man instances just with bosses having X more health tuned for an extra dps in the group. It means dps can find groups more easily, which is the most important part at the max level. I'd say keep 5 mans for leveling content(not worth changing it anyway).

    With a 6-man party you have 1 tank, 1 support, 1 healer and 3 dps. Sounds much more like the current population of people in the LFG tool. Obviously you can drop the support if they aren't needed and they can go dps. Never would a 6 man group require 2 tanks for a fight, or 2 dedicated healers.

    As a final note, I'm a rogue tank(with a dps set too of course). I have 0 problems with the LFG tool currently as my queues are instant when I want to do a T2.
    Last edited by Equis; 06-02-2011 at 12:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    I like it! I came from City of Heroes where teams could have up to 8 members so the 5mans feel small to me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rift Goat View Post
    I like it! I came from City of Heroes where teams could have up to 8 members so the 5mans feel small to me.
    Me too, although the CoH model where 8 "support" rips up content in spectacular fashion with no tank may be a step too far ...

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    Ascendant Vayra's Avatar
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    I liked the setup WAR was based around, 2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 dps or if you were good/slightly over-geared 1, 1, 4. Having things being tuned around an off-tank also allows for more interesting boss fights.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vayra View Post
    I liked the setup WAR was based around, 2 tanks, 2 healers, 2 dps or if you were good/slightly over-geared 1, 1, 4. Having things being tuned around an off-tank also allows for more interesting boss fights.
    I liked the EQ2 model. 6man groups. Usually it was tank, healer, support, 3 dps. Your support could be a second healer, or a bard, or an enchanter (Mage bard, less buffs, more CC). Towards the end it was a great idea to have a bard AND and enchanter, purely because enchanters were leaning more and more towards DPS than support.

    At the start of the expansion, you'd be using the more defensive tanks (Guardian, Paladin) and multiple healers (Templar, Defilers, Wardens) and by the end of the expansion, everyone was geared, so it was easier to use the offensive tanks (monk/bruiser, Shadowknight, Berserker) and only one healer (Inquistor/Fury/Mystic).

    I certainly wouldn't object to adding a 6th slot into groups as it would be nice to be able to take a buffer along and not feel like they were wasting a DPS slot. I dont expect it to happen though, pretty sure it would require an engine change.
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    Ascendant Vayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paikis View Post
    I liked the EQ2 model. 6man groups. Usually it was tank, healer, support, 3 dps. Your support could be a second healer, or a bard, or an enchanter (Mage bard, less buffs, more CC). Towards the end it was a great idea to have a bard AND and enchanter, purely because enchanters were leaning more and more towards DPS than support.

    At the start of the expansion, you'd be using the more defensive tanks (Guardian, Paladin) and multiple healers (Templar, Defilers, Wardens) and by the end of the expansion, everyone was geared, so it was easier to use the offensive tanks (monk/bruiser, Shadowknight, Berserker) and only one healer (Inquistor/Fury/Mystic).

    I certainly wouldn't object to adding a 6th slot into groups as it would be nice to be able to take a buffer along and not feel like they were wasting a DPS slot. I dont expect it to happen though, pretty sure it would require an engine change.
    Don't think it would be that hard to implement. Would require some ui changes and rebalancing of aoe abilities but otherwise it shouldn't be too hard.
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    Plane Walker Atavax's Avatar
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    the problem with 6 mans is how can you make a fight challenging for the healer when its very easy for a group to use 2 healers? 5 mans really limit what the group composition can be; either 1 tank 1 healer, 1 support and 2 dps, or 1 tank 1 healer, 0 support, and 3 dps. granted right now 5 mans are stupid easy, but assuming they make dungeons in the future remotely challenging, having 6 people makes it difficult to create challenging content.
    Last edited by Atavax; 06-02-2011 at 08:32 PM.
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    Plane Walker Atavax's Avatar
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    i think a better solution to making it easier to form party's is for either the bard or a new rogue soul being capable of being a healer in 5 mans. rogues are the most popular class, and if they could heal, it would substantially increase the number of healers in the game, which is what we currently are short on.
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    Ascendant Vayra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atavax View Post
    the problem with 6 mans is how can you make a fight challenging for the healer when its very easy for a group to use 2 healers? 5 mans really limit what the group composition can be; either 1 tank 1 healer, 1 support and 2 dps, or 1 tank 1 healer, 0 support, and 3 dps. granted right now 5 mans are stupid easy, but assuming they make dungeons in the future remotely challenging, having 6 people makes it difficult to create challenging content.
    In WAR it worked just fine, either with the encounters simply requiring 2 healers to keep the tank(s) alive or forcing a healer to dps to beat the enrage (but still heal, <3 my melee DoK) or both. Encounters requiring tanking of multiple mobs apart also makes it hard for a single healer (especially chloro). Having a 2/2/2 setup allows for a lot more flexible design of encounters and can utilize the different roles better with requiring different setups within the same instance.
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  10. #10
    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    The entire game is balanced around 5/10/20 people. Normal instances, experts, rifts, warfronts, raids... Arbitrarily changing the number of people in a party isn't going to happen, and it wouldn't be worth the amount of work involved on Trion's part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dinadass View Post
    The entire game is balanced around 5/10/20 people. Normal instances, experts, rifts, warfronts, raids... Arbitrarily changing the number of people in a party isn't going to happen, and it wouldn't be worth the amount of work involved on Trion's part.
    It's just a usable solution to the lack of healers/tanks that every shard is experiencing(and always will). When every group can bring an extra dps more people are able to run 5 mans.

    @People saying it would make content cheesable if you bring 2 healers...What's to stop people from doing that now? Oh yeah, small dps checks(like earth crystal on Gatekeeper pre-nerf) and other mechanics like that. It's not that hard to create encounters that you can't kill with less dps than the group should have.

  12. #12
    Plane Walker Atavax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equis View Post
    It's just a usable solution to the lack of healers/tanks that every shard is experiencing(and always will). When every group can bring an extra dps more people are able to run 5 mans.

    @People saying it would make content cheesable if you bring 2 healers...What's to stop people from doing that now? Oh yeah, small dps checks(like earth crystal on Gatekeeper pre-nerf) and other mechanics like that. It's not that hard to create encounters that you can't kill with less dps than the group should have.
    this is rift. people can quickly change between roles. if one part of a dungeon has a dps check, a healer can go dps for that tiny part of the dungeon...
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atavax View Post
    this is rift. people can quickly change between roles. if one part of a dungeon has a dps check, a healer can go dps for that tiny part of the dungeon...
    Ok? I know that and my groups did it all the time(like needing a support for certain bosses, back when they were difficult). What does it have to do with people's complaints about using 2 healers to make the game too easy if it goes to a 6 man group size? The problem exists regardless of being group size 5 or 6, and is solved by dps check mechanics and such.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Atavax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Equis View Post
    Ok? I know that and my groups did it all the time(like needing a support for certain bosses, back when they were difficult). What does it have to do with people's complaints about using 2 healers to make the game too easy if it goes to a 6 man group size? The problem exists regardless of being group size 5 or 6, and is solved by dps check mechanics and such.
    lets say there's a dps check in a t2 that expects every dps to do at least 700 dps. in a 5 man where they count 3 dps. if a 3rd went healer, the 2 others would need to average 1050 dps. in a 6 man with 4 dps, the 3 would have to average 933. Which is easier? the later. so its easier to get away with 2 healers in a 6man then a 5man...
    the beatings will continue until morale improves

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    Rift Chaser Erhnam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atavax View Post
    lets say there's a dps check in a t2 that expects every dps to do at least 700 dps. in a 5 man where they count 3 dps. if a 3rd went healer, the 2 others would need to average 1050 dps. in a 6 man with 4 dps, the 3 would have to average 933. Which is easier? the later. so its easier to get away with 2 healers in a 6man then a 5man...
    DPS checks should be higher with 6man gorups, obviously

    Anyway, I doubt it gonna happen. With the "support" role so heavily inserted in rift it would have been a great idea. Maybe in the future, when we get the first paid xpac


    EDIT: Someone said about 8mans in CoH, I agree it was pure fun (and slaughter!). Partys in Lotro are also 6mans and work wonders. But the classes are very different, out of 9 classes only 3 are pure DPS (and one of them can act as healer too)
    Last edited by Erhnam; 06-03-2011 at 08:23 AM.

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