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Thread: Slow Guild Progression and Instances

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Slow Guild Progression and Instances

    1.2 introduced a lot of things that ... I believe slowed down guild progression. Is this really intended??!

    Continuing my post on 1.2 patch really made everything boring and grindy
    http://forums.riftgame.com/showthrea...bring-back-fun

    This thread mainly focuses on guild progression

    On paper, the unlimited random dungeons though with reduced plaq and no more dailies seem good on paper. Everyone says: you can now do unlimited amount of dungeons. And they are easier too. Now I am trying to get my guild geared to go GSB etc. After 1.2, the whole guild progression feels very slow. The community in general too isn't as exciting too.

    Most of my guild members are working adults that play around 2-3 hours each night. Typically they login around 8-9pm and finish around midnight or so. Pre 1.2, this amount of time usually allows them to do 2 instances, some errands, crafting etc. Not so geared prob do T1 + T2. Geared ones probably do 2x T2s. Not counting boss drops, you could get around 20-40 plaqs per day. Generally min. 30 plaqs.

    With 1.2 - everything really slowed.

    Cost of gear plaqs increased.
    General plaqs rewards reduced
    Random dungeons max 6 per T2 and 3 per T1.
    Epic drops nerfed badly.
    Time in-game every night is still same.
    Easier instances - faster but more boring/grinding

    Now if you have unlimited time, play like 6 hours every night. Do like 4-5 random instances, you can nett the same amount of plaqs from LFG plaq rewards not including the boss drops.

    I listed to a few podcasts, many are complaining similar things.

    Yes the instances are easier and faster. That means you actually have to do more instances to get similar amount of plaques. With 1.2, our guild generally still do around 2-3 instances. The nerfed dungeons saves some time, but it still takes around 40-60+ minutes (Depending on group). So 1.2 forces us to grind more dungeons to get similar plaques which might take more time. Added to that burn out and boredom because they keep running the same dungeons. Boredom -- less time login -- eventually quit.

    If one has unlimited time and can grind 7x random dungeons daily - good for him. But most people don't have that time luxury. Now I see my new 50s still blues and bored of running same instances over and over but still not getting the gear they want because of reduced plaqs, and expensive plaq gear.


    Is this really intended by Trion?! A response would really be appreciated. I can feel my entire guild not as excited as usual (except those who are already geared and doing raids). The rest of half-geared ones are stuck forever even though their play time is quite a lot. The geared 50s are bored to actually go into the instances because there isn't much incentive now that epics barely drop!
    Last edited by Xrande; 05-22-2011 at 11:10 PM.

  2. #2
    Rift Master devilryuji's Avatar
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    This is a huge problem. I can care less about the ultra hardcore players; they are the minority. If the typical player that used to run 1 T1 and 1 T2 which were daily, compared to now only have 1 6 plaque bonus reward per day now, coupled with increase in cost, it's jus abouts over x2 the time required. Who in their mind decided we needed to take twice as long to grind gear? If it was challenging I wouldn't mind but for the officers in guild whom have to help others to gear up it's beyond boring; I have no words without swearing to express how i feel.

    However that's only the time consuming portion. Now comes the skill and learning curve. I've noticed some bosses have been stealth buffed in hotifx #6, but it's still not enough. How is any player going to go from current T2 into raiding? The difficulty difference is huge. Players whom expereinced the 1.1 T2s are in a far better position as they were challenging and required self awareness. Now it's pretty much won't die unless you completely screw up on a boss mechanic.

    This needs resolving, be it to help guild progression or woteva other reason. Server numbers are dropping. Server merges will not solve the problem, coz the numbers will jus drop again. Do something before it's too late. announce some changes now for 1.3, get us excited, it will keep players from cancelling.

    PS: I have no issues with the new T3 content. The 10 man is brilliant. Now if only you reduce the grind of T2 and add more T3, preferably daily T3 or more weekly.

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  3. #3
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    People say LFG tool helps the casuals etc etc ... but I doesn't really help casual gear. Casuals don't have plenty of time to grind gear either.

    Unless Trion is really intending the following:
    Allow casuals to do T1-T2 without making them too T3. So they allow casual to enjoy all the instances content till T2. T3 are left for hardcore people. And since they are hardcore, they probably don't mind grinding through T2 -- and thus the nerfs to T1 T2 and reducing the amount of plaques in the game system.

    T3 is great. My guild are doing GP now. Very challenging. We hope to finish it. After doing GP -- I am lost. These days we are doing lots of expert rift runs. Heck we get more epics from Experts Rifts in less amount of time than doing instances.

  4. #4
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    I agree totally. Patch 1.2 was really unlucky. It doesnt help casual players in any way. The game is now boring and really grindy if you want to get gear for raids. I am kinda happy that I got my gear during 1.0-1.1.

    Also nerfing epic drops in experts is a huge mistake. I think current amount gained and price of plaque gear would be ok if epics still drop. People would get epics from dungeons, there would be reason to do dungeons and after some time they would buy missing pieces with plaques.
    Last edited by Zhalfirim; 05-23-2011 at 01:33 AM.

  5. #5
    Plane Touched Salazar666's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by devilryuji View Post
    This is a huge problem. I can care less about the ultra hardcore players; they are the minority.
    I don't think any hardcore player have been happy with the changes made in patch 1.2 to the expert dungeons.

    heck i even got shoot down as elitist and what not when trying to argue that the dungeons did get easiere but less rewarding making it a mindless grind rather than what it was before. I'm happy i got all my gear before the patch hit.

    :P

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    The time to gear up to t2 quality epics previously might have been a little quick, to be fair. A t1 daily at 16 plaques, and a t2 daily at 32 plaques... so roughly 48 plaques a day for two instances. 3-4 days for a piece of plaque gear. So with drops maybe two weeks to fully gear, with a little luck/crafting?

    Now it's what... a t1 daily at 9 plaques and t2 at 18 plaques, so 27 plaques for a similar time investment? Plus the added cost? An average of 7 days per piece of plaque gear? Assuming the LFG tool works or you have a guild group.

    So twice as long to get geared now, roughly. Which screws over all new 50's, and causes a rift in guilds with people already t2 geared waiting on people who only got half way before the patch.

    Plus the other issues. I don't know if it's a trend, but I've seen some guildies up and quit simply because they were getting a groove managing grinding against reward, and now have the time it'll take to get it all done doubled. The old dailies encouraged pugging a lot more than the LFG tool does, and the lowered rewards discourage already geared people from joining the queues or helping out. It's simply not worth the time anymore.


    Also, I recently hit 50 on my rogue, and already have a t2 geared warrior tank, and noticed something a little unnerving. It's really, really easy to put together 100+ hit and enough dps gear to get into a t2 as dps. But tanks are kinda screwed since it's a bit more difficult to meet the toughness requirement without grinding through t1's first.

    I'm not sure which way this swings for healers as I don't yet have one, but it's discouraging and doesn't point towards the LFG tool being successful in the long run. Make gearing to tank more of a pain than dps, and noones gonna do it unless they're really enthusiatic or have a lot of time on their hands.


    In any case... most of the population are casual gamers, and the path of casual gaming is the path of least resistance. Massive time investments to get anywhere will simply shunt people into other time sinks, and I sincerely hope Trion monitor their subs enough to catch on fast if it becomes an issue.

  7. #7
    Plane Walker ethix's Avatar
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    You don't have to immediately gear up in less than 2 weeks to hit raids. I've probably done 25 experts since release, and I play maybe 12 hours a week now. I spend 9 hours raiding a week, then I run 1 or 2 experts a week with some daily quests in there. I've been doing this for over...1 month and a half since early April (raiding that is).

    With that said, you could probably run 10 t2's with several t1's to gear up for those t2's, then you'd have enough plaques for 1-2 plaque pieces. You're not in a race for server firsts obviously, so 1-2 weeks of proper gearing isn't too much to ask (it really isn't). Then that's plenty enough for raids imo. In addition, have several members spend 15 plaques (or spend 2p per) each plus the corrupted souls from t2's, and that could be easily 2-3 raid rifts per week to gear out your lesser essences. Finally, the first 4 bosses in GSB are fairly easy, and the gear requirements are not that high (same with GSB but hey). They're mostly execution fights, if every raid dps role does 600-800 that's more than enough for the whole zone.

    edit: Anddd, it looks like you're doing the 10 man. So what are you complaining about exactly? Again 1-2 weeks of gearing up isn't awful.
    Last edited by ethix; 05-23-2011 at 07:13 AM.
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  8. #8
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    I agree. I'm glad I started T1's before 1.1 came out. Now it takes many T2 runs to get the gear you need to drop or to get enough plaques. Add declining server pops and a lackluster LFG tool and suddenly this game becomes super grindy...

  9. #9
    Shadowlander Toranaga's Avatar
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    People just want everything and they want it fast, the average raider spent atleast a week or two working on his gear to cover the requirements for T3.
    You should take in account that for the time required for one T2 dungeon pre 1.2 now you can run two T2 dungeons, which in the end means twice as much loot from the last bosses.

  10. #10
    Sword of Telara
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    Spec properly and learn to DPS? These dungeons are incredibly fast now. The argument that they were at all hard or interesting before and somehow that got nerfed is a joke. Chain pulling 7-10 mobs is much more enjoyable now than sitting tanking a single mob that had 90k HP for no reason and did no appreciable damage to the player so it was a 2 minute tank and spank.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toranaga View Post
    People just want everything and they want it fast, the average raider spent atleast a week or two working on his gear to cover the requirements for T3.
    You should take in account that for the time required for one T2 dungeon pre 1.2 now you can run two T2 dungeons, which in the end means twice as much loot from the last bosses.
    You got more epics per run pre 1.2. Not only were the dungeons more rewarding but they were also more fun. Now you run a t2 and if you are looking for a certain piece of gear you have a what like 1/50 chance of seeing it drop? Not to mention that you have to kill the last boss now for a good chance at what you want. No more ok lets just kill bloodwalker for a chance at the trinket. No one was complaining that it took too long pre 1.2 to get gear. With the crafted items and t2 drops it didn't take long at all. Now however it will take a very long time for people to get gear, not to mention that while they are getting the gear they won't learn the skills they need to do raids even when they finally do have gear. With the change they have made Trion will lose most of their players that are not terrible and want a challenge but dont quite have a raiding guild yet. Once that happens Trion will have to nerf the hell out of raids so the terrible players will be able to do them and at that point pretty much every skilled player left in the game will quit.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toranaga View Post
    People just want everything and they want it fast, the average raider spent atleast a week or two working on his gear to cover the requirements for T3.
    You should take in account that for the time required for one T2 dungeon pre 1.2 now you can run two T2 dungeons, which in the end means twice as much loot from the last bosses.
    Except, before 1.2, there was a good chance bosses dropped 2 items, usually at least 1/2 the bosses drop an epic. The final boss, more often then not, dropped 2 epics. Thats 3-5 epics per dungeon.

    Now? You are guaranteed to get '1' epic. Bosses never drop more then 1 item and when they do, its usually blue. Average is 1-2 epics per dungeon.

    But yea, I suppose you have a higher chance of completing these dungeons to begin with...

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