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Thread: Please make Hammerknell Extremely Hard

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Please make Hammerknell Extremely Hard

    I would love to see 12-14 bosses total. And each boss feeling like an Accomplishment that Takes A while. I know they said double digit bosses, but I feel that you would keep an amazing amount of Subs if you made the bosses rewarding. I am all for the Very hard then nerfed a bit idea.

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    Rift Master drizzt459's Avatar
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    If they did 10+ bosses I would be ecstatic.

    If the first boss was on the level of the end boss in Gilded Prophecy, you'd see a whole new happiness among real raiders.
    Old school raid

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    Nope. If they want to keep getting our 15 bucks they're going to make it accessible to everyone from day 1.

    Achievements are for the hardcores, the boss kills are for the real players who pay the server bills.

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    Plane Touched
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    Put it this way there's not going to be any true casuals hitting up Hammerknell on release. No reason to not have it come out strong then phased out as more and more progression comes. After all it is T2 Raid content and I highly doubt the average casual will be clearing both GSB+ROS by the time it's released. TBH the majority of the "real players who pay the server bills" are either to busy trying to clear T1/T2s or havent even stepped foot into the 20m raids maybe other than to look inside. I'm honestly not worried about casuals and Hammerknell from a hardcore player's perspective due to simply how long it will take them to actually clear GSB & ROS/get geared unless of course they nerf it into oblivion which will probably happen imo but still will take a while lol.
    Last edited by Pwncakes; 05-20-2011 at 03:04 AM.

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    Rift Disciple mrtakedown's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skagzilla View Post
    Nope. If they want to keep getting our 15 bucks they're going to make it accessible to everyone from day 1.

    Achievements are for the hardcores, the boss kills are for the real players who pay the server bills.
    Well, I don't know how you define accessible, but RoS or GSB is far far away from accessible, because I doubt that anyone have ever tried to truly PuG any of these instances and be successful in clearing it.

    What I do not understand, though, is why there is no hard modes in the game. I mean, did the devs think they could get away without there being two separate modes for raid instances? Are they dumb enough to not realize that it is just probably impossible to tune the dungeon so it would be challenging for hardcore and casual people? I would like to see the numbers on how many people have actually attempted and killed bosses in percentages in raid instances. I doubt that more than 10% of playerbase have cleared GsB or RoS.

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    aux
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skagzilla View Post
    Nope. If they want to keep getting our 15 bucks they're going to make it accessible to everyone from day 1.

    Achievements are for the hardcores, the boss kills are for the real players who pay the server bills.
    That's right, instant Level 50 (with gear) button now or I quit. This stuff needs to be more accessible.
    I'm so BORED

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    Rift Master devilryuji's Avatar
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    I have no issues with difficulty. I jus think it's be better if more "hard" content were tailored for 5-10 man. Especially 5 man.

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    Telaran Zoltarinjo's Avatar
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    But not by creating endless sea of trash.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Skagzilla View Post
    Nope. If they want to keep getting our 15 bucks they're going to make it accessible to everyone from day 1.

    Achievements are for the hardcores, the boss kills are for the real players who pay the server bills.
    Anyone can zone in, therefore it's accessible. If you're talking about something that you can do without having gear from the zones prior to that, then **** with that. Raids are about progression.

    If you're talking about ease of doing something, the fact is that if one group of people can do something, and another group can't. It's not that something is too hard. There's something wrong with the group that keeps failing. They need to discover what that something is.
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    Plane Touched
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    Let's hope that it's not the same difficulty progression as it was on WoW vanillia : if MC was really easy, BWL was hard (not that hard, but still). Lots of players where discouraged by such difficulty.
    The diffculty curve, must be a curve, not a cliff That's all i'm asking : something harder than anything done previously, but not so much as to make casual guilds th feeling they're getting hit by a truck

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    Ascendant Verodio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerathule View Post
    Let's hope that it's not the same difficulty progression as it was on WoW vanillia : if MC was really easy, BWL was hard (not that hard, but still). Lots of players where discouraged by such difficulty.
    The diffculty curve, must be a curve, not a cliff That's all i'm asking : something harder than anything done previously, but not so much as to make casual guilds th feeling they're getting hit by a truck
    Once again, I don't understand how one group of people can do something and another cannot. Yet somehow the group that doesn't spend the time to understand what's going wrong and fix it, screams that it's too hard.

    It's a mindset. You've got people who accept challenges and have a determination to beat them and then you've got people who try a few times and then give up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verodio View Post
    Once again, I don't understand how one group of people can do something and another cannot. Yet somehow the group that doesn't spend the time to understand what's going wrong and fix it, screams that it's too hard.

    It's a mindset. You've got people who accept challenges and have a determination to beat them and then you've got people who try a few times and then give up.
    Well he's got a point about the difficulty curve vs cliff though. 1.2 turned it into a cliff. Have a guess at how they'll make it a curve again.
    I'm so BORED

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zerathule View Post
    Let's hope that it's not the same difficulty progression as it was on WoW vanillia : if MC was really easy, BWL was hard (not that hard, but still). Lots of players where discouraged by such difficulty.
    The diffculty curve, must be a curve, not a cliff That's all i'm asking : something harder than anything done previously, but not so much as to make casual guilds th feeling they're getting hit by a truck
    In WoW my guild hit MC the first day it was available. We stayed in there for about 2 hours and never got past the first pull of giants. We went back the next day, and the day after that, constantly adjusting our gear, our strategies until we were able to. It took us over a week from that first day to finally kill the first boss. Took us a good deal longer to finally kill Ragnaros with all the farming that was required to kill him. Same thing happened in BWL. It's all about determination.

    Personally, I'd be pissed off if nerfs happened to something before I'd had a chance to beat it, the way it was meant to be done.
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    Plane Walker Datku's Avatar
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    What I really hope for Hammerknell is working encounters. Regardless of "hard mode" or "easy mode" it will be new content and raiding guilds will find it challenging until strats start coming out in the open. Heck there will probably be strats coming off the alpha server by some guilds that will start learning the encounters over there first.

    Its a fine line. Make it too easy and you have people like the OP who feel that because they are in a guild that has done GSB or RoS that its some event worthy of documentation in the history of the game. They feel stripped of their "achievements" since others can do the same thing they did first. They want it to be "hard" so all the other guilds will fail but of course since the OP's guild (or the guild of those with his thinking) the only worthy ones they will still defeat the encounters and still come out and say "Hey we killed this boss make it harder now so others can't and we can bask in our own glory for longer."

    I am in a guild that is our shard's primary raiding guild. We have shard first for virtually every achievement possible from first lvl 50's on the shard to a perfect Alsbeth (that one is first in world achievement). Every expert mode, every rift raid, etc shard firsts. We like difficult encounters sure, but we like unbuggy encounters even more. As one of the first guilds that killed Greenscale we had to endure week after week after week of fine tuning the encounter with the GM's to work out the bugs meaning every week we faced almost a completely different fight. Just when they finally get it all working right they do a patch that still manages to mess up the encounter even if they didn't touch the zone in the patch. That was frustrating. It wasn't about the difficulty of the encounter...it was the performance of the encounter.

    Anyway I am more hopeful that Hammerknell will have more working encounters than bugged ones when they release it. Make the encounters so impossibly difficult to even test and thats what we will have on the live servers. Bugged encounters because they were made so difficult they could not be fully tested. I'm all for challenge. I cheer as loud as others in vent/ts/mumble when we down a new boss and see that server first message come up. Challenge is one thing...working encounters are another.

    I hope that the encounters in Hammerknell WORK over them being T1,000,000 hard. This is a game where people openly post the strats for the encounters. Most of the other raiding MMO's out there, strats were guild strats that were not discussed outside the guild, never posted videos for them, or even helped others struggling to understand a mechanic. That is why in those "other" games raiding might have seem more challenging. This game you can find video walk through for every raid fight out there usually within hours of introduction of the new content (take River of Souls for example). That takes a lot of the "challenge" out of the fight other than those first few guilds that go into the fights blind. But even then with open testing of the content on Alpha most of the front running guilds that got first kills in RoS had already done them on Alpha and knew the strats before hand.

    Making something "extremely hard" doesn't make it any more challenging if strats and walk through are available. All you do at that point is make the encounters gear checks which ends up making previous content made easier so more people can do it (look at experts now...and I am sure when Hammerknell comes out GSB and RoS will see huge nerfs as well). You make it too hard and you run the risk of ticking off some of the hard core raiders who are frustrated at alpha testing raid content on live servers all the time. They will go from being aggravated about bugged encounters to being ticked off at over tuned encounters that are buggy as all heck because no one was able to really test them. Then they will have to endure week after week after week of tweaks that change the fight sometimes completely only to have old bugs or new bugs pop up every week and having to have Dev's with the raid to see what is actually happening because its not running the way it was coded.

    I am all for challenges...but making things extremely hard wont do a thing if guilds post vids and walk through once they do it. You want to keep the challenge level up...convince all the guilds to not post strats or vids for the first month or two after new content comes out. No information sharing...figure it out on your own. Its the way it is in most other games, but this one its a race to post the first kill vid after new content. If you see how its done, it take the difficulty away from the encounter.

  15. #15
    Prophet of Telara
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    Hard but not punishing. Also not requiring the pointless farming of resist gear for EVERYONE in the raid that Molten Core did. Johlen, to me, is a poorly made fight, because he's punishing. It's hard, for sure, but the penalty for a mistake in that fight is just extreme, as when you're first there you need all 20 people up to have a hope on the bombs. Duke is a little easy, but mostly more forgiving. If a few people screw up, you can still continue the fight.

    I also like the Duke fight as an example because it requires the same amount of everyone really. Hylas and Greenscale are insanely tough on healers, but pretty boringly easy for the DPS and tanks (not so much the main tank on Greenscale). Johlen, on the other hand, is a bastard to the tank and DPS, but pretty easy on the healers.

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