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Thread: is there a real Dungeon in this game?

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default is there a real Dungeon in this game?

    Granted I am only lvl 47, so I havent seen the whole world yet.

    Is there a real dungeon in this game, a dangerous place you can explore with a party of adventurers,
    A place where you can get lost,
    a place where only some will dare to go to the most dangerous parts?

    I am finding the corridor / tunnel linear instances of nowadays very boring. It seems I just went from my chain solo quest threadmill to a new group quest threadmill... enter here, kill this, step 2 kill that, pick loot, exit there...

    How about a great non instanced dungeon, large, scary, with lots of wings, secret passages, etc etc...
    Is this too much to ask? Make it an open PVP place even if you want?

    Even a real elite outdoor zone would do fine, provided there is a chance of finding a named or a boss very so often. Some place that feels dangerous and rewarding.

    Places I liked in the past:
    - EQ1: Lower Guk, Kithicor Woods, Old Sebilis, Velious in general.
    - SWG: The high level planets, hunting rancors
    - DAOC: The open PVP instance cant remember the name
    - Vanguard: some really nice dungeon design in there

    I feel this is missing in MMOS nowadays

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikin View Post
    Granted I am only lvl 47, so I havent seen the whole world yet.

    Is there a real dungeon in this game, a dangerous place you can explore with a party of adventurers,
    A place where you can get lost,
    a place where only some will dare to go to the most dangerous parts?

    I am finding the corridor / tunnel linear instances of nowadays very boring. It seems I just went from my chain solo quest threadmill to a new group quest threadmill... enter here, kill this, step 2 kill that, pick loot, exit there...

    How about a great non instanced dungeon, large, scary, with lots of wings, secret passages, etc etc...
    Is this too much to ask? Make it an open PVP place even if you want?

    Even a real elite outdoor zone would do fine, provided there is a chance of finding a named or a boss very so often. Some place that feels dangerous and rewarding.

    Places I liked in the past:
    - EQ1: Lower Guk, Kithicor Woods, Old Sebilis, Velious in general.
    - SWG: The high level planets, hunting rancors
    - DAOC: The open PVP instance cant remember the name
    - Vanguard: some really nice dungeon design in there

    I feel this is missing in MMOS nowadays
    As much as I like this game I completely agree. I think the days of actual dungeons are gone since WOW introduced the hallway/boss/more hallway/ another boss concept. I think most people just get lost and cry about it. In Lotro the old forest used to be exactly like you describe but was changed due to massive crying about it.

    MMO's are just no longer made for those who first adventured in them. I am afraid our kind is in the minority these days and a dying breed in this genre. Most people that play now only play for loot and the fastest way to it. The sense of adventure couldn't be further from most people's minds.

    Most people I talk to in games now won't do anything unless loot is attached to it in some way. The drop rate on a good, fun adventure is way to low these days.
    Last edited by jblah; 05-04-2011 at 08:37 PM.

  3. #3
    Shield of Telara
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    Deepstrike Mines on Expert.
    Thats the only one i've done that truly feels like a dungeon crawl >.<

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    I sort of feel the same way as the OP. EQ had this sense of mystery and wonderment with the dungeons. Nothing was instanced so it made them feel more alive. Going through those places were grueling. they would start out easy but the further you went the tougher it got. Good times.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Yeah... The danger and mystery of an EQ1 dungeon where every hall was camped and every mob was instantly killed. I long for the days of queuing for named kills in lower guk. Nothing beat fighting your way to a boss only to have another group leapfrog you while you kill the room trash. Or waiting for 12 hours to get your drop only to have someone ninja it... Good times! We should totally bring all that back. The crowded dungeons, the need to camp, the loss of hours worth of gained exp when you died. Yep! Let's bring all that back...

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by jblah View Post
    As much as I like this game I completely agree. I think the days of actual dungeons are gone since WOW introduced the hallway/boss/more hallway/ another boss concept. I think most people just get lost and cry about it. In Lotro the old forest used to be exactly like you describe but was changed due to massive crying about it.

    MMO's are just no longer made for those who first adventured in them. I am afraid our kind is in the minority these days and a dying breed in this genre. Most people that play now only play for loot and the fastest way to it. The sense of adventure couldn't be further from most people's minds.

    Most people I talk to in games now won't do anything unless loot is attached to it in some way. The drop rate on a good, fun adventure is way to low these days.
    Before I continue, I will say this: dungeons like the OP describes, dungeons inspired by the concept laid out by tabletops and games before high graphics MMO's are awesome.

    That said, can't you get over your nostalgia long enough to realize what you are saying sounds so elitist and petty it isn't funny? We (most of us) didn't decide we just want to run in, grab teh loots, and go. We like this style because it engages us with the challenge of defeating the enemy over and over, very quickly.

    The difference is not that we just want loot and you just want fun, the difference is how we perceive fun.

    I enjoy fighting bosses with difficult mechanics. Presumably you enjoy exploring unique and dynamic environments.

    I'm sorry, it just pisses me off when people cut it down to "the entitled little brats these days just want loot handed to them by the fistful, they don't appreciate what creates REAL fun, the things I like".

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    I think the best dungeons of any modern MMO currently are Vanguard and EQ2. I like Rift don't get me wrong, but there is never any real sense of danger or exploration imo.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Faeyre View Post
    Before I continue, I will say this: dungeons like the OP describes, dungeons inspired by the concept laid out by tabletops and games before high graphics MMO's are awesome.

    That said, can't you get over your nostalgia long enough to realize what you are saying sounds so elitist and petty it isn't funny? We (most of us) didn't decide we just want to run in, grab teh loots, and go. We like this style because it engages us with the challenge of defeating the enemy over and over, very quickly.

    The difference is not that we just want loot and you just want fun, the difference is how we perceive fun.

    I enjoy fighting bosses with difficult mechanics. Presumably you enjoy exploring unique and dynamic environments.

    I'm sorry, it just pisses me off when people cut it down to "the entitled little brats these days just want loot handed to them by the fistful, they don't appreciate what creates REAL fun, the things I like".
    Ok, but can't we be greedy and have both?
    Regular instanced dungeons for your 1/2 hour run and almost guaranteed reward and a large non instanced challenging aventure area?
    Yes the perma camped named in EQ1 were boring, on the other hand some randomisation of the named locations and their loot could alleviate a lot of that problem.

  9. #9
    Telaran Charred's Avatar
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    Only place I find with such dungeon concept was (is) DDO. But even there, once you did it X times it is no longer mysterious maze, but following predetermined path.

    In Rift, first time we did IT and DSM we did get lost, but on second, no one ever considered venturing branch pathways. Unless game generates dungeons semi randomly every time you enter (like Diablo) it never fulfill dungeon concept OP mentioned, as it will be quickly reduced to "go to point 1, kill boss, go to point 2, kill boss, exit".

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple
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    the only game Ive found nowadays that has a area like that is LOTRO. Head into the Mines of Moria area without anyone leading you by hand with you gamma turned down and your player torch turned on and enjoy.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    I am also in favor of the non-instanced dungeon with no linear path. In fact, I think there should be plenty of these scattered about, such that you won't run into a thousand other players if you enter one, and you won't have the only 4 or 5 there are completely memorized. Random mobs who move in random ways in random places in the dungeon. Darkness that requires you to carry a torch and prevents you from seeing more than 10 or 20 feet. Now that's some cool stuff.

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lexorin View Post
    Yeah... The danger and mystery of an EQ1 dungeon where every hall was camped and every mob was instantly killed. I long for the days of queuing for named kills in lower guk. Nothing beat fighting your way to a boss only to have another group leapfrog you while you kill the room trash. Or waiting for 12 hours to get your drop only to have someone ninja it... Good times! We should totally bring all that back. The crowded dungeons, the need to camp, the loss of hours worth of gained exp when you died. Yep! Let's bring all that back...
    Heh, that brings back fond memories. Not. The first time I quit EQ was after being "list keeper" in Sol B. As you probably know, but for the edification for those who weren't there, the list keeper maintained a waiting list of those who wanted to join a dungeon group. And it wasn't for the whole dungeon, but rather just to camp one spot in the dungeon. People waited six hours or so for a chance to join a "real" dungeon group. Not fun.

    However, EQ2 had both instanced dungeons and "contested" dungeons (as EQ1 eventually did), i.e., the two types of dungeons are not mutually exclusive.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by vikin View Post
    - DAOC: The open PVP instance cant remember the name
    Each realm had their own PvP instance in the RvR zones. I remember Dodens Gruva quite well, when rewards down there was upgraded. If however you think of Darkness Falls, then it was only open to whoever had the most keeps. This did end up in some epic Rvr battles, but rarely did anyone ending up making a raid to go further into the dungeon as most things couldn't solo'd. It was vast, but also far too much.

  14. #14
    Champion ZuKii's Avatar
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    When I first saw the maze pop-up in Greenscale I thought it'd be a proper maze with bosses at different locations and that was kinda cool... till I realised that it's a very small maze.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple HopelessMLT's Avatar
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    Proper Dungeon Crawl aka Diablo style were maps were always randomly generated.
    Hopeless Cleric - Whitefall >_>
    Fateless Warrior - Whitefall <_<


    Inglorious Basterd

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