+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 21

Thread: PUGS & You. **Semi Long**

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Vyndeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    141

    Default PUGS & You. **Semi Long**

    Why does everyone complain about PUGS being able to complete content? Those players pay $15 a month just like everyone else. I myself am all for a challenge because there is nothing like going into a dungeon with 5 guildies/friends and getting the satisfaction of beating something difficult that may have posed a problem for days or even weeks.

    That said, does it really matter? Imagine this: You really love basketball, it is the only thing you get complete and total enjoyment from. Now lets imagine, you suck at basketball even though you love it. You work alot so you don't have 5-6 hours a day to dedicate to the court so your game develops alot slower than other players. So a law is passed that you can only play the first quarter of basketball because you suck and only the really good players can play all 4 quarters. For you since you love to play and pay your gym membership fee just like everyone else, your mad right?

    I know that was a really long example but my point is made. Everyone deserves to see all the content, even PUGS. Hell I PUG sometimes when my friends aren't on. If you want a challenge limit your group size or take off your gear. Move on to raids... something. Trion isn't going to limit the biggest majority of their playerbase because the hardcores want a challenging game in every aspect. The game has challenge and will continue too. But a successul company will never, EVER limit their playerbase like that. It just isn't going to happen plain and simple so honestly its frivilous to continue to gripe about it on the forums.

    Anyway, with love to all the hardcores because you set the standard and I truly mean that. This is a game at the end of the day, Blizz ruined their game by turning it into an E-Sport. You can't even enter the first dungeon in WoW without someone screaming for recount numbers at lvl 15... ridiculous. I pray Trion does not do the same.

    Please share with any valid points you may have as to why the world needs constant reminders that, "OMG Pugs FTL!!!" Or "PUG Raid hells no brah"

    I honestly would love to hear them.

    And lastly, has anyone ever considered trying to lead a PUG, show them how to grow crops, and fish for themsleves? Or do you just ragequit after telling everyone they suck? If I see someone struggling with something I generally try to help, how about you? MMO communities used to be so awesome... what happened?
    Last edited by Vyndeta; 05-03-2011 at 02:22 PM.

  2. #2
    Ascendant jadakin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Posts
    1,331

    Default

    Basically. Dungeons that require strategy - require communication.
    PuGs are filled with people whom don't get groups on a usual basis. So chances are they don't know how the strat for a certain pull/boss works and what they should and shouldn't do.

    Trying to help people whom you don't know are often met with accusations of being elitist or l33t hardcore jerk. So runs happen and no one says anything. No adjustments made and it's like hitting a brick wall over and over again.

    People get a bad impression of PuGs from that and wish not to do them. This leaves those that don't have others to rely on to only find and play with themselves. This leads to them never learning the strats and the groups constantly failing. This causes people to come to the forums and demand nerfs to make the content easier because they can't finish it. People whom do know the strats get upset because they like the challenge the way it is and play games to be challenged, not to feel better about themselves for finishing an instance.

    I think that's about it in a nutshell.
    Last edited by jadakin; 05-03-2011 at 02:31 PM.

  3. #3
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    2,669

    Default

    If you make content easy for pug raids then it will become trivial for any organized raiders.


    Raids are supposed to be hard. Raids are supposed to require organization. Pugs should not have free reign to form up via the new lfg tool and go kill Greenscale and Alsbeth.

  4. #4
    Plane Touched
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    286

    Default

    That is what I hated the most about WoW's nerfage, they completly slaughtered the difficulty level of raids and completed fostered that elitist attitude that was usually reserved for people that didn't feel the need to show off their epeens.

    But then they fostered the elitist behaviour with people going oh yes we're guild number 1086 in the world to kill the laughably easy Lich King.

    Greenscale was designed to be just an introduction for raiding. RoS is where the hell starts anybody not competent and knows their classes and has not good raid co-hesion will fall flat on their faces as it should be

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Vyndeta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jadakin View Post
    Basically. Dungeons that require strategy - require communication.
    PuGs are filled with people whom don't get groups on a usual basis. So chances are they don't know how the strat for a certain pull/boss works and what they should and shouldn't do.

    Trying to help people whom you don't know are often met with accusations of being elitist or l33t hardcore jerk. So runs happen and no one says anything. No adjustments made and it's like hitting a brick wall over and over again.

    People get a bad impression of PuGs from that and wish not to do them. This leaves those that don't have others to rely on to only find and play with themselves. This leads to them never learning the strats and the groups constantly failing. This causes people to come to the forums and demand nerfs to make the content easier because they can't finish it. People whom do know the strats get upset because they like the challenge the way it is and play games to be challenged, not to feel better about themselves for finishing an instance.

    I think that's about it in a nutshell.
    I can agree with you, I have run across PUGS that dont want the help offered. For those players I say more power to them and hope they enjoy their failfest. But what I don't think most people realize is that not all PUGS are bad. In fact I lead PUGS just to fill potential spots for our guild raids. Most players in PUGS just need some direction and to learn what not to do. One of our main tanks was from a "lowly PUG" and I firmly believe he could tank with the best of them. Before we met he was uncoordinated and lazy and he'll back that statement. Now he is efficient and focused. He learns his placement, rotation, and gear requirements before even engaging a boss the first time.

    PUGS deserve a chance is all I am saying and I think if everyone opened their eyes to this a little more than the content may be able to stay challenging. But until we can take the players that need help under our wings (And I mean assist not play the game for them) then content will never stay difficult, and it will always be catered towards the majority, which is the casual player.

  6. #6
    Champion of Telara
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    1,251

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndeta View Post
    I can agree with you, I have run across PUGS that dont want the help offered. For those players I say more power to them and hope they enjoy their failfest. But what I don't think most people realize is that not all PUGS are bad. In fact I lead PUGS just to fill potential spots for our guild raids. Most players in PUGS just need some direction and to learn what not to do. One of our main tanks was from a "lowly PUG" and I firmly believe he could tank with the best of them. Before we met he was uncoordinated and lazy and he'll back that statement. Now he is efficient and focused. He learns his placement, rotation, and gear requirements before even engaging a boss the first time.

    PUGS deserve a chance is all I am saying and I think if everyone opened their eyes to this a little more than the content may be able to stay challenging. But until we can take the players that need help under our wings (And I mean assist not play the game for them) then content will never stay difficult, and it will always be catered towards the majority, which is the casual player.
    PUGS already have the same chance as any other group. You almost sound like you equate PUGS with "incapable" which is not true. Bad players are just that bad players........has nothing to do with them knowing eachother or not. Dumbing down the dungeons to make it easier for bad players ruins the game for everyone including the good players that PUG.

  7. #7
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,744

    Default

    I have pug'd every dungeon except DSM and only 1 event scares me to pug there (Gatekeeper Kaleida), so I feel like I have had some good experiences in the area. I have had some great groups of PUGs and some horrid ones, I think its unfair to lump it into one category. The main problems I see with the bad pugs groups are either horrible DPS (less than the tank is doing) or they tend to blame everyone else for their screw ups.

    However, this doesn't even limit itself to pug groups. I have had groups where I was with 4 people who were all in their own guild, even in a high end guild that raids GSB so you would think they would know what they were doing. However, I constantly pulled aggro doing normal heals on the tank. Anyhow, the point to this little story is it isn't only PUG groups that can be bad but any group where you don't know the players and know if they are good or not. This does not mean the content should be made easier, none of the dungeons are that hard (except Caelia she annoys me with her randomness, but getting fixed anyway) they just require people learning the strats which does take 1-2 attempts for people new to the dungeon and that can be too much for some people who are veterans of that particular dungeon to handle.

    When I first hit T2 as a healer I consistently saw in 50 chat: LF healer for RD or DSM must know the dungeon, I always thought this was silly because the fights aren't even complicated. I know explaining for 15 seconds is really energy draining and all! Final point...the perception with PUGs is much worse than the reality.

  8. #8
    Soulwalker
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndeta View Post
    One of our main tanks was from a "lowly PUG" and I firmly believe he could tank with the best of them. Before we met he was uncoordinated and lazy and he'll back that statement. Now he is efficient and focused. He learns his placement, rotation, and gear requirements before even engaging a boss the first time.
    A classic example of a newb in the wild. They are rare and precious.

    http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20060823

    Unlike the noob, who is best avoided at all costs. Unfortunately their colouration being so similar, many people are unable to tell the difference.

    A helpful guide

    http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=98933
    Last edited by Nergui; 05-04-2011 at 07:29 AM.
    "Skill counts for nothing when an angel pees down the touchhole of your musket." - Anonymous soldier.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    152

    Default

    The problem is that everyone wants the line drawn right below them. It should be just challening enough that they can barely do it. This makes it trivial for those above you and impossible for those below you.

    You want to see the content? Fine.... let them do the same things with raids that they do with dungeons.... so everyone can complete the raids on easy mode... with much lower grade loot of course.

    Make the number of levels of difficulty infinite and choosable by the group. For every level difficulty you increase... the mobs get 10% more hp and hit 10% harder... and the gear stats go up by 5%. (Or choose some other % values but you get the idea.) Those who just want to run through the content can manage it... those who want to seriously challenge themselves get to do that (and there are rewards for doing so).
    A Native American elder once described his own inner struggles in this manner: Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog all the time. When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied, The one I feed the most.

  10. #10
    Ascendant Kulta's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Posts
    1,503

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    If you make content easy for pug raids then it will become trivial for any organized raiders.


    Raids are supposed to be hard. Raids are supposed to require organization. Pugs should not have free reign to form up via the new lfg tool and go kill Greenscale and Alsbeth.
    bottom line is, pugs and orgainzed raiders all pay the same amount.
    Have you ever wanted to?

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    2,062

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulta View Post
    bottom line is, pugs and orgainzed raiders all pay the same amount.
    And? I don't see a point here.

    I don't see a point at all to this thread, in fact.

  12. #12
    Ascendant
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    3,744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kulta View Post
    bottom line is, pugs and orgainzed raiders all pay the same amount.
    Which is an argument used since day 1 of mmo's and its as lame of an argument then as it is now. This type of content isn't designed for people who aren't going to be organized. I know that is hard to accept but if you want to experience raids you should know what you are doing when it comes to spec + rotation and be an organized raid force. You do realize there is plenty of content for casual players, right? (Me being one in this game)
    Last edited by Bluelightt; 05-04-2011 at 07:39 AM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Guide Writer Redcruxs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    3,935

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndeta View Post
    So a law is passed that you can only play the first quarter of basketball because you suck and only the really good players can play all 4 quarters.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulta View Post
    bottom line is, pugs and orgainzed raiders all pay the same amount.
    think of the raiders as a team of pro NBA players and your example group of sucky players, are you saying that the hoop should be lowered because they sucky players can't jump as high?

    based on your logic, you say that any player no matter how sucky should be able to dunk in every basketball game they play. do you realize how stupid that is?

    what if you are playing with cripples? children? should the hoop just be placed 2 ft off the ground? NO! children and cripples don't play in the NBA... there comes a point where if you suck then you suck and you shouldn't be able to "move up the ladder" any further, thats life.

    There is no "law" against sucky players doing content, you CAN take any pug into any raid or instance in the game. they might not down the boss, but they can still try


    please, show me a screenshot of you taking a pug into RoS and a message that pops up and says "you are too nooby to enter"

    so your points are moot, the developers should not dumb down content to the point where no matter how bad you suck you can still "win" every instance in the game just by rubbing Vaseline on your face and smashing it on your keyboard like a moron...
    Last edited by Redcruxs; 05-04-2011 at 08:08 AM.

  14. #14
    Champion
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    529

    Default

    You don't understand. I complain about PUGs that can't complete the content because they're terrible. If you played with half the effort you spent creating this thread to whine, you wouldn't have a problem clearing content and I wouldn't have a complaint about it. That they need to nerf content to cater to your lack of competence is what I find distasteful about the whole process, though I accept it.

  15. #15
    Plane Walker Stabsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    482

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vyndeta View Post
    Why does everyone complain about PUGS being able to complete content? Those players pay $15 a month just like everyone else....

    For you since you love to play and pay your gym membership fee just like everyone else, your mad right?
    You're not paying ME $15 a month.

    You're not paying your gym membership to ME.

    If you want ME to come heal your group I need a better reason than because you paid money to SOMEONE ELSE.

    I actually quite like pugs as it's a nice way to meet people and the vast majority of players on my server are competent and friendly. If they weren't I wouldn't pug. No matter how much they felt they had paid for the privilege.
    Guild Leader of Serenity on Bloodiron EU PvP
    I blog at http://stabbedup.blogspot.com/

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts