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Thread: A treatise on low level instances.

  1. #1
    Ascendant Naronas's Avatar
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    Default A treatise on low level instances.

    Ok, I admit it. This isn't a treatise. I just really really really really like the word. A lot. So, in beta, I played a Guardian up to 22. I currently have a 50 rogue, and am working on my cleric now. I have played MMOs since EQ. And something about leveling in rift has been bothering me, specifically, low level instances.

    Now, I would like to preface this with a story. Leveling my Rogue, I never had any trouble finding instance groups quickly. But on my cleric, it is hard. Very hard. Everything has been outleveled. So, when trying to run IT (for the last 2 days) I finally managed to get a group together. Myself as heals, my friend as chloro, and 3 pugs. Get to the first boss after the tank is having some issues, and....everyone except me dies. now, I admit it, the tank was using a 2 hander as reaver, but the hits were MASSIVE, even in plate. We ended up having to remove the tank and rogue from the group, because they couldn't follow instructions, and after an hour of spamming getting only another 15 mage, I re-speced Justicar tank, learned the build, and the Rogue went bard. This instance encompassed me going from 17-18. And healing me was HARD. I was using a 1h and a shield. Getting 100% uptime on the +15 block talent, and running a spec specifically designed for defense not threat. And even with myself healing with every spare conviction, the run was pretty slow, and with a fair share of healing heart attacks. We ended up 4 manning through the entire instance, though Three Kings did take about 7 minutes to do with no interrupter.

    Now, where, you may be asking, is he going with this story. Let me tell you. Low level instances are over-tuned. As I was running IT, I realized I had the same problem in RoTF my first time through. Tank got rolled repeatedly on the first boss in there. Around the same level as me. Bad enough, the tank profusely apologized, blamed himself, and left the group. Now, I have always been a strong proponent of HARD endgame content, content you may take hundreds of wipes to kill, but that gives you one hell of a feeling of accomplishment. But these, for many people, are the first instances in this game. For some, the first instances EVER. Damage requirement is next to nil, so why is incoming damage quite so high? If anything, lower the first few instances and raise the need ones to create a better curve, but this just strikes me as a weird decision.

    Tl;DR: Go read it. Also, I had relations of a sexual nature with your mother. HA! Thats what you get for not reading.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walsingham View Post
    Yes, if you need to know, Vespera hit me with a big pointy spiky thing. It was immensely painful.

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    Ascendant xtorma's Avatar
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    Anyone play eq2? they had this boss venril sathir. pita of a boss in every sense. your entire raid could not go below 35% manna or above 55% or adds would spawn and wipe the raid. sathir himself had a DT that one shotted the tank. you needed people in the back of the chamber activating orbs , or you would get adds that would wipe the raid.

    the first time we dropped him , there was a huge celebration. i spent all my dkp just to get his cloak. those were good days.
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    Banned Sawdomite's Avatar
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    Have to agree here. Of course everyone can get better, but the first instances in the game should be accessible to even some of the worst players. Just like the first set of levels is much easier. Less spells, quicker dying mobs, etc. I don't want super-easy content, but the first instances should be super-easy by virtue of their being the first. Let things get hard for higher levels, where better gear and things are at stake and people should have a better grasp on their calling, souls and the game. Good post.

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    Rift Disciple EvilMallet's Avatar
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    Hardest boss was the Sleeper, hands down.

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    aux
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    I think the difficulty of most dungeons is just right. I've also pugged lower level instances often enough, and there's usually one or two (if not four) who are there for the first time. But no-one ever complained about difficulty. Some people are more skilled/experienced than others but never did it get to the point where we gave up. We wiped, we learned, we eventually beat the dungeon. Gear or skill was never really an issue... the willingness to not give up and try again was everything.
    I'm so BORED

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    Rift Disciple EvilMallet's Avatar
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    Aye, the difficulty for me in most groups is perfect, the only problem is how long trash takes, which is getting resolved next patch! I don't mind 10 minute boss fights, it's the 40 minute fight to get there that drains me.

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    Ascendant Naronas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by aux View Post
    I think the difficulty of most dungeons is just right. I've also pugged lower level instances often enough, and there's usually one or two (if not four) who are there for the first time. But no-one ever complained about difficulty. Some people are more skilled/experienced than others but never did it get to the point where we gave up. We wiped, we learned, we eventually beat the dungeon. Gear or skill was never really an issue... the willingness to not give up and try again was everything.
    It's not a matter of difficulty per say. Its more a high tank damage issue, unless the tank is higher leveled or in good gear already. The mechanics, easy, the dps reqs, easy, but this one part doesn't seem to be.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walsingham View Post
    Yes, if you need to know, Vespera hit me with a big pointy spiky thing. It was immensely painful.

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    Shield of Telara Einherjar_LC's Avatar
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    I can't agree with this OP.

    I find the challenge to be suitable for the level.

    You were admittedly trying to tank an instance with a Champ, no shield, and a purely offensive class. You cannot discount the roughly 500 armor a shield provides at that level for that instance. Not having that will result in substantial damage.

    The other thing you left out was the tanks level. That also plays a significant role in how well damage is mitigated. A level 15 will see more damage taken due to lower stats than say a level 18. While you can do IT at L15, I would not recommend main tanking that instance until level 17 at the earliest.

    I have done that instance numerous times with PUGs during beta and guildies later in release and for the most part found the difficulty and players ability to handle it where it should be. There are very good drops in IT so there is also a risk/reward component to consider as well.

  9. #9
    Ascendant Naronas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Einherjar_LC View Post
    I can't agree with this OP.

    I find the challenge to be suitable for the level.

    You were admittedly trying to tank an instance with a Champ, no shield, and a purely offensive class. You cannot discount the roughly 500 armor a shield provides at that level for that instance. Not having that will result in substantial damage.

    The other thing you left out was the tanks level. That also plays a significant role in how well damage is mitigated. A level 15 will see more damage taken due to lower stats than say a level 18. While you can do IT at L15, I would not recommend main tanking that instance until level 17 at the earliest.

    I have done that instance numerous times with PUGs during beta and guildies later in release and for the most part found the difficulty and players ability to handle it where it should be. There are very good drops in IT so there is also a risk/reward component to consider as well.
    As I said in the post, I was taking big hits even as a 18 Justi in a full tank spec, Mace and shield.

    Other tank was 19.
    Last edited by Naronas; 05-03-2011 at 10:54 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Walsingham View Post
    Yes, if you need to know, Vespera hit me with a big pointy spiky thing. It was immensely painful.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    lol?

    Like you, I leveled a Rogue to 50 and have a cleric alt. Also, like you, I just tanked IT and roflstomped it. We were all 19/20 and half way through just said to hell with tanking and zerged everything, lol.

    With my rogue, those death mounds caused my party to wipe many times. We had to DPS slowly or there'd be too many adds to take down.

    On my cleric, we all just DPS'd the hell out of the mound and any adds that spawned with reckless abandon.

    We were in vent at Ragnoth and one of the warriors went behind him. And being used to xIT, I asked if we had to watch for rear cleave... Well, he didn't take any damage, so I asked, "Hell, do we even have to watch for front cleave?" Shortly thereafter, he hit me in the face with that fire blast for a "whopping" 200hp. I smacked him twice and was back at full health.

    I also remember when those shades by the light orbs would respawn instantly and indefinitely. THAT was hard (and fun). This time, I just ran from A to B taunting everything and then we DPSed when I stopped at an orb. Now, if some idiot wanders into a group of shades, they get tickled until they get them into the light. Originally, you were lucky if you could 1v1 them because if you weren't in the light, you were screwed.

    Either experts have made me not suck, or Trion just made it laughably easy. Literally just walked through smashing the hell out of everything and not one death. Or Justicars are just that nuts over powered.

    It got even easier when I jumped to DPS with Inquisitor/Justicar and put synthesis on the tank. Consume soul on a pack of mobs will pretty much full heal the whole party.
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