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Thread: Fml pugs cant dps

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Santent's Avatar
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    Default Fml pugs cant dps

    As of last night, i have officially completed every tier 1 and 2 instance. The group always consists of me (Cleric heals) and my brother (warrior damage mitigation specialist). We have pugged every DPS / Support class for every instance we have done. So far in all these encounters i have had only 3 or 4 players reach over 500 dps single target. These same players were also the only ones to get over 1000+ dps in trash packs. 90% of these pugs cant get over 350 dps EVER..... I am simply beginning to get very numb and quite rude because of it. I feel like an old man griping and screaming at pugs after i look at the parser the first few trash packs into an instance. It goes something like this
    "(character name) ... dude your doing 300 dps on trash packs.... i dont want to be in for 2 hours.. pick it up or im replacing you" .

    They usually respond with something like "wow... you d***, ill just leave if your going to be rude" . I think my server just might be full of ******s. I have tried making them come to the target dummy and "prove" they can do over 500 dps, but no one ever actually comes to do it, they either leave the group or just wont reply to me when i ask them to do it. Do people suck this bad? i mean really? Im only in 4 tier 2 purples and i can pull over 600 dps singlet target.

    So, whats with the crappy dps mayne?

    /rant off

    50 Cleric
    Sub Par DPS Extraordinaire

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    LOL, so you die... it's just a game... can't handle failure? Play WoW.

  3. #3
    Champion Carolius's Avatar
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    Because. Everyone is a special lil snowflake. When we join little league now, we all get to play, and we all get trophies, pizza, and an ice cream party. Even if we suck. How DARE you expect them to put effort into helping the group succeed.

  4. #4
    Sword of Telara Ixath's Avatar
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    I can pull a lot more DPS than that but if some twirp asked me to come prove it to him before being able to join their group, I'd laugh in your face and tell you to F off.

    I think you're making your numbers up, too. An undergeared chloro/lock can pull 1500+ dps on aoe trash pulls without even trying.

    If you're so good maybe you should be DPSing and let somebody else heal?

    Shrug.

    I think you're the bad one here, but that's just my opinion.

  5. #5
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    Hell, my Sin/BD can pull that on trash easy, not to mention my NB.

    However, the attitude where you have to be geared to get geared is really pathetic. You're not running GSB. You're perfectly able to run T1 in greens and blues and T2's with a bit of T1 gear.

    If you can't run the instance because they keep dying, or fail a DPS check, you have a legitimate complaint.

    If you can run the instance but a bit more slowly but still successfully, then you're just an arse.

    There is a difference between bad players and bad gear. You can be an aspiring good playing with bad gear and a bad player with great gear... and a prick with a false sense of entitlement.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ixath View Post
    I can pull a lot more DPS than that but if some twirp asked me to come prove it to him before being able to join their group, I'd laugh in your face and tell you to F off.

    I think you're making your numbers up, too. An undergeared chloro/lock can pull 1500+ dps on aoe trash pulls without even trying.

    If you're so good maybe you should be DPSing and let somebody else heal?

    Shrug.

    I think you're the bad one here, but that's just my opinion.
    Welcome to Rift 1.2
    No Challenge. No Reward. No Point.

  6. #6
    Plane Walker Datku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santent View Post
    I have tried making them come to the target dummy and "prove" they can do over 500 dps, but no one ever actually comes to do it, they either leave the group or just wont reply to me when i ask them to do it. Do people suck this bad? i mean really? Im only in 4 tier 2 purples and i can pull over 600 dps singlet target.

    So, whats with the crappy dps mayne?

    /rant off
    LAWL...do you seriously want to try and make people "try out" on a target dummy to have the pleasure of grouping with you?

    I can see why some people ask if you are a **** / jerk / whatever LOL. You got some big cahonnys will give you that though.

    Many things effect dps. I don't think it really matters till you actually get to raid level that you need to expect minimums in terms of DPS. For T1 its a matter of do they have the hit/focus/toughness to be there. T2 there are some dps checks but you can't expect someone fresh out of T1's to pull off raid level dps. Some callings can parse high hitting a single macro. Other callings can do everything perfectly, use cool downs optimally, but if they are lacking on gear it wont help them parse high dps. The only way to get the gear is to run the instances and get drops...what you can't get as a drop buy with plaques. If their guild isn't raiding they maybe even further behind gear wise to go into a T2 and crank out 600+ dps.

    I can be my guilds top dps or in the top 3 dps on many fights in GreenScale and River of Souls doing anywhere from 750 to over 1200 dps (did nearly 2k on last alsbeth kill but then I did also run a couple shards in the last phase that inflated total). There are other fights where I bust my arse but I am lucky to pull 600 dps as a mage. AoE favors me greaty and I can do 1k to even 4k dps on aoe groups. Single target is a lot of work because while I can burst dps to inflate dps parse from time to time sustained dps is fairly tough to achieve because over time dps just continues to decrease. I typically see warriors topping dps parses under most situations single target even aoe. Very well equipped rogues can top as well, hell I have even seen dps clerics put out just as much if not more dps than I can on my mage in some encounters.

    Anyway back to point if your doing T2 and having such an attitude about min dps then you are going to have a hard time finding people that can meet your goals outside of guilds that are raiding 20 man content already. I always laugh at your type though. I will PuG experts from time to time and get questioned about my gear (although I have never been made to try out against a target dummy). I usually just blow them off a bit or under sell myself a bit. Then when I show up with the group I notice they have me targeted and I know they are checking me out. Then I laugh when they ask where I got my orange staff or where I got other pieces of raid gear I have :P

    Not everyone you group with is going to have top gear. Some will really bite and I can understand if you got someone doing less than 200 dps you might replace them unless they are a dedicated healer or support. There really are only a couple T2 bosses that are gear checks. DSM Gatekeeper, and next to last boss in CC come to mind. Rest of the fights are more execution than dps dependent. Some people are going to group with you with exceptional gear on that will meet your bar and probably blow it completely away. If you want perfection make a static dungeon group of the "good" players you have ran with. But if your going to PuG well then your just going to have to deal with what is available...otherwise go ahead and stand around spamming 50 chat for group members for hours on end.

  7. #7
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    I was bored and decided to do the KB daily as DPS with my T2 gear and raid spec. The group was all fresh 50s except for the fairly epic'd tank. I figured things would be ok and I'd speed things up and get some fast plaqs. Well, every pull, tank lost aggro to me. Some pulls, he even lost aggro to the healer. I could usually CC in time and chain stun until he could react, but it was all messy. Finally I told him let me tank or I'm out (rest of group was tired of him too). Sueng goes down no problem and we move on to the big lizard.

    At this point, they start linking pulls and aggroing pats and just being all around fail. T2 tank gear wont save you from 15 mobs with a green healer. I just left because I didn't feel like wiping.

    Point being, again, there is a large difference between gear and skill. When I was fresh, things were hard, but doable. The gear was bad but our skill was good. Unfortunately, I've also been in groups where everyone was geared and everything just fell apart. Amazing dps doesn't matter if the healer can't keep the tank up, or the tank can't keep aggro, or the dps tab pulls, or melee eats cleaves...

    And really, as far as DPS goes, all you need is hit and a decent weapon for T1. Gear is a marginal boost.



    Quote Originally Posted by Datku View Post
    LAWL...do you seriously want to try and make people "try out" on a target dummy to have the pleasure of grouping with you?

    I can see why some people ask if you are a **** / jerk / whatever LOL. You got some big cahonnys will give you that though.

    Many things effect dps. I don't think it really matters till you actually get to raid level that you need to expect minimums in terms of DPS. For T1 its a matter of do they have the hit/focus/toughness to be there. T2 there are some dps checks but you can't expect someone fresh out of T1's to pull off raid level dps. Some callings can parse high hitting a single macro. Other callings can do everything perfectly, use cool downs optimally, but if they are lacking on gear it wont help them parse high dps. The only way to get the gear is to run the instances and get drops...what you can't get as a drop buy with plaques. If their guild isn't raiding they maybe even further behind gear wise to go into a T2 and crank out 600+ dps.

    I can be my guilds top dps or in the top 3 dps on many fights in GreenScale and River of Souls doing anywhere from 750 to over 1200 dps (did nearly 2k on last alsbeth kill but then I did also run a couple shards in the last phase that inflated total). There are other fights where I bust my arse but I am lucky to pull 600 dps as a mage. AoE favors me greaty and I can do 1k to even 4k dps on aoe groups. Single target is a lot of work because while I can burst dps to inflate dps parse from time to time sustained dps is fairly tough to achieve because over time dps just continues to decrease. I typically see warriors topping dps parses under most situations single target even aoe. Very well equipped rogues can top as well, hell I have even seen dps clerics put out just as much if not more dps than I can on my mage in some encounters.

    Anyway back to point if your doing T2 and having such an attitude about min dps then you are going to have a hard time finding people that can meet your goals outside of guilds that are raiding 20 man content already. I always laugh at your type though. I will PuG experts from time to time and get questioned about my gear (although I have never been made to try out against a target dummy). I usually just blow them off a bit or under sell myself a bit. Then when I show up with the group I notice they have me targeted and I know they are checking me out. Then I laugh when they ask where I got my orange staff or where I got other pieces of raid gear I have :P

    Not everyone you group with is going to have top gear. Some will really bite and I can understand if you got someone doing less than 200 dps you might replace them unless they are a dedicated healer or support. There really are only a couple T2 bosses that are gear checks. DSM Gatekeeper, and next to last boss in CC come to mind. Rest of the fights are more execution than dps dependent. Some people are going to group with you with exceptional gear on that will meet your bar and probably blow it completely away. If you want perfection make a static dungeon group of the "good" players you have ran with. But if your going to PuG well then your just going to have to deal with what is available...otherwise go ahead and stand around spamming 50 chat for group members for hours on end.
    Welcome to Rift 1.2
    No Challenge. No Reward. No Point.

  8. #8
    Plane Walker Datku's Avatar
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    True I have been in runs like that before as well. Usually if a tank can't hold agro against my dps I will go into a chlor/archon role to help heal and support. But if your tank is just bad then what can you do unless you can tank as well (which is what you had to do). But when people start to be idiots some times you just got to cut your losses and leave. Remember you're not locked to the instance till you kill the first boss so you have all that time to "try out" the group if need be and decide if you want to ride it out or cut your losses before the first boss. After the boss its a matter of how much are you willing to take. I am more than willing to help people out but there are limits. When you die on every single pull it gets old. Whats the problem? Can it be fixed? If so then try again. If not, run run run.

  9. #9
    Champion AlexE's Avatar
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    lawl lucky im not on your shard.

    Luckily im a tank and can keep aggro to most (I do have trouble with stormcallers in group but hey, i only started tanking like what? 1-2 weeks ago? so still have a lot to learn, and rogue aoe threat generation aint the best)

    If i were to get in your group and i was dps, the first time you mentioned My DPS is low i would basically leave, i hate elitists caring about those numbers, i've been told my dps sucks when i am dps'ing loads of times, when it happens i just leave them to find a new dps that cud do better than me.

    I play this game for fun, not for some stupid numbers.

    It's okay to try help someone get higher dps if the boss is a dps race or something, but saying that stuff is just dumb and a jerk-like attitude to me.


    And yes i hate the parser, even if im a tank.
    Last edited by AlexE; 05-02-2011 at 12:58 PM.

  10. #10
    Ascendant nand chan's Avatar
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    It's because we have no DPS meters; they probably don't even realize how much they suck until you force it on them.

    If it makes you any happier, they won't ever ever see even the first boss of GSB or RoS.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker ethix's Avatar
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    Ahh, forum favorite thread. A lot of people have baggage with this topic. So it's a real good one.

    If you're in a t2 expert, doing low dps, you should not expect to be carried to victory. Period.

    I generally ask them what's up with their rotation or how are they spec'd. If they act like a smart ***, they get the boot. I've mentored several other mages/warriors over the past month, and they do decent to excellent dps now.

    Gear is a nonissue, unless you're under hit/focus cap. Generally though, lower dps means poor execution which means wipes, which means 2+ hours in a t2. So yes, low dps after a quick convo about spec/rotation deserves a boot.
    Brynx <Myth> Mage of Seastone

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethix View Post
    Ahh, forum favorite thread. A lot of people have baggage with this topic. So it's a real good one.

    If you're in a t2 expert, doing low dps, you should not expect to be carried to victory. Period.

    I generally ask them what's up with their rotation or how are they spec'd. If they act like a smart ***, they get the boot. I've mentored several other mages/warriors over the past month, and they do decent to excellent dps now.

    Gear is a nonissue, unless you're under hit/focus cap. Generally though, lower dps means poor execution which means wipes, which means 2+ hours in a t2. So yes, low dps after a quick convo about spec/rotation deserves a boot.
    Pretty much this.

    If I make a group and see that someone has less than stellar gear, I either kick them right there or accept the run may be slower.
    Do I call people out on DPS being too low if I think their gear should allow it to be much higher? All the time. I'm never rude about it, however 9/10 times the person will get an attitude, so then they get kicked. If people don't want to try to improve why should they be carried through things.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched
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    Hey just a FYI for tanks out there. If you are losing agro on big aoe packs with storm callers, just make a macro, that targets yer stormcaller and casts intercept, the idea is not that the caller has agro and you are pulling it off, its that for 6 seconds you are ADDING the aoe stormcallers agro to yers. Just toss it out there a bit after you pull, and then if the stuff is still alive, 30 seconds later again.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    Trollfail. If OP is being called a ****** that much, he probably is. Simple solution? When you form up a group right then and there, say that if you don't hit XXX dps, you're out. Just make it clear from the beginning its not personal but that you want a fast run with minimum time spent on trash and thereya go. If they still whine then they're just QQ'ers.

    I'm not disagreeing that pugs are blah for DPS and it usually makes it slow and hell yes I would like them to run faster, but I also don't surprise boot them for being slow about it or ask them to prove themselves to me. Just use a different approach to avoid *****gery.
    -Starsong @ Spitescar

  15. #15
    Ascendant exLupo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexE View Post
    i hate elitists caring about those numbers
    Joe Average: You elitist, why should I have to perform to your overblown expectations?
    Joe Elitist: Stop embracing mediocrity and trying to leech off the hard work of others!

    Posters make it seem like you're either an apathetic slug or a complete fascist. The true path lies in the middle.
    Last edited by exLupo; 05-02-2011 at 02:53 PM. Reason: exclamatories!
    There is no better cause to fight than the simple need that blood be spilled. Do not fight because you receive reward or praise. Fight because that other bastard exists solely to die at the end of your blade.

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