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Thread: Fml pugs cant dps

  1. #16
    Plane Walker Datku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ethix View Post
    Gear is a nonissue, unless you're under hit/focus cap. Generally though, lower dps means poor execution...
    Ah but the OP threw out 600+ dps. At that level of DPS gear is an issue. I don't care how tight your rotation is, how perfectly you time cool downs, how well you manage energy/mana if you lack the SP or AP you wont put up raid dps numbers in an instance. Spell power or Attack Power greatly effects how much damage you do. At the Tier lvl isntances many people are stacking focus/hit/toughness to be able to run the instances. Most plaque gear doesn't have focus on it, mainly only accessories. So you end up putting focus/hit/toughness runes on gear to get you to cap. In raids you start to get gear with focus/hit/toughness and at that point you can start to re-rune gear for SP/AP/crit to start to bring your over all dps up. Sure you will get some tier drops with the needed stats and that will help you keep your cap and start runeing for more dmg. But the plaque gear really sucks when it comes to that. To get the instance drops you have to run them and get the drops. As you get the drops your raid dps goes up to standards and you get the chance to pick up raid drops. Then along the line you suddenly notice you are over cap and start redoing your runes and find that you no longer have to rune for cap and can increase your dmg stats and thus increase your dps to 600 and beyound. Look at t full set of mage raid gear for example and decent accessories you end up around 290ish focus without any focus runes at all.

  2. #17
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Datku View Post
    Ah but the OP threw out 600+ dps. At that level of DPS gear is an issue. I don't care how tight your rotation is, how perfectly you time cool downs, how well you manage energy/mana if you lack the SP or AP you wont put up raid dps numbers in an instance. Spell power or Attack Power greatly effects how much damage you do. At the Tier lvl isntances many people are stacking focus/hit/toughness to be able to run the instances. Most plaque gear doesn't have focus on it, mainly only accessories. So you end up putting focus/hit/toughness runes on gear to get you to cap. In raids you start to get gear with focus/hit/toughness and at that point you can start to re-rune gear for SP/AP/crit to start to bring your over all dps up. Sure you will get some tier drops with the needed stats and that will help you keep your cap and start runeing for more dmg. But the plaque gear really sucks when it comes to that. To get the instance drops you have to run them and get the drops. As you get the drops your raid dps goes up to standards and you get the chance to pick up raid drops. Then along the line you suddenly notice you are over cap and start redoing your runes and find that you no longer have to rune for cap and can increase your dmg stats and thus increase your dps to 600 and beyound. Look at t full set of mage raid gear for example and decent accessories you end up around 290ish focus without any focus runes at all.
    This man has a point. Once you hit raid tier, your hit starts skyrocketing and you will need to change your hit runes out for things like AP or CRIT. Most people's DPS probably sucks because they don't have the hit that the raid gear gives them. If you (the OP) are so concerned about people's DPS sucking, you should buy lots of hit and spell hit runes to help them out. Should be easy to do.

  3. #18
    Champion AlexE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by exLupo View Post
    Joe Average: You elitist, why should I have to perform to your overblown expectations?
    Joe Elitist: Stop embracing mediocrity and trying to leech off the hard work of others!

    Posters make it seem like you're either an apathetic slug or a complete fascist. The true path lies in the middle.
    lol, when did game's stop being about fun?
    I play a build of sin/BD/RS if im for some reason dps'ing (Which rarely occures, mostly if it's a dungeon im not too sure i know everything a tank has to know)
    my average dps seems to be around 500, according to the people that use a parser in a dungeon i do.
    If someone boots me for doing too low dps then screw em elitists lol, im here to have fun, not build my dps role to something i hate (*hrm* nightblade) just because my dps sucks, which is part of the reason i went tank anyway, to not have that stupid person clinging on to me asking why my dps sucks and then kick me or w.e lol.
    Besides, RS tank is pretty fun. :P

    Im here to have fun, i pay for it, im not gonna let some a-hole tell me what build or rotation to use, i play however i want, if someone wants to kick me for it then fine, he/she can lol, couldnt care less. xP
    Last edited by AlexE; 05-02-2011 at 04:10 PM.

  4. #19
    Rift Chaser Flatulentia Nervosa's Avatar
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    I think it has to be 20:1 that the biggest whiner about someone else's spec or performance has serious performance issues of their own in my experience. The best players I've run with get through even bad runs without a whine, they just somehow don't wind up choosing to group with the underperformer again, or they know how to give gentle but meaningful tips. Good players don't have problems pugging, because other good players find them again. They don't need to boot/whine/ask for tests, they just play, and do it well it Guild groups or PuGs.

  5. #20
    Shadowlander
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    Guess I wouldn't be able to group with the OP since I'm one of those "terrible" Stormcallers who only pulls 500-580dps single target. Then again, I've only run DD twice, and only have 700sp/208 focus.

    Trash groups I've pulled well over 3000dps though. On two enemies around 1000dps. 3-10 enemies is where Stormcallers really shine though. On trash mobs like that I just throw down Hailstorm and Lightning Storm at the same time, then follow up with Lightning Field. Makes the parser go ape ****, and also usually destroys the mob as long as the other DPS is also doing AoE. Sometimes I'll have to throw out a round of Forked Lightning and Lightning Field, but that's fairly unusual.

    Actually, since I'm here and this topic is about crappy DPS, I have a question about Lightning Field and refreshing Electrify stacks. When you have 3 stacks, you can use LF twice before it stops doing damage. Now, after that, do you need to use FL three times to get the full stack, or just once? The tooltip is bugged to doom and back, so I've been unsure and just use FL three times to make sure. Can you do say, FLx3->LFx2->FL->LFx2->FL->..., or do you need to do FLx3->LFx2->FLx3->...?

  6. #21
    Telaran Dark Exile's Avatar
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    I stopped caring th minut you said you checked your parser.
    Less numbr crunching dude, its ruining th game.

    Half the reason the servers are dead is bcause people got sick of parser babies always complaining about dps, the other reason of course is th DPS ppl being so pro they tll th tank/clric what to do when they never play either.
    Point is hav fun, go with friends, enjoy it, if its all about numbers well....become an accountant?

  7. #22
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ixath View Post
    I can pull a lot more DPS than that but if some twirp asked me to come prove it to him before being able to join their group, I'd laugh in your face and tell you to F off.

    I think you're making your numbers up, too. An undergeared chloro/lock can pull 1500+ dps on aoe trash pulls without even trying.

    If you're so good maybe you should be DPSing and let somebody else heal?

    Shrug.

    I think you're the bad one here, but that's just my opinion.
    Yeah, you'd show them. Tone the passive/aggressiveness down a little.

  8. #23
    Soulwalker MoofyKitten's Avatar
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    I understand your pain op. I absolutely refuse to group outside of my guild nowadays because the ****tiness is outrageous. Sometimes even finding non-****ties in my guild isn't easy. But I've also come to accept that 95% of all MMO players everywhere are just plain idiots and/or don't care about getting better (and that's being generous). And that cancer is not just on your server or in your groups. They're rampant in warfronts and in world events everywhere.

    It's just statitics though, that so many idiots are playing MMOs considering the percentage of intelligent/educated people in the world.

    The real issue that you need to concern yourself with is if your just going sit there and wallow in all of those horrible players or are you gonna get yourself into a guild or group of people who are NOT full on ******s.

  9. #24
    Rift Disciple
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    I'm usually not too worried about this sort of thing but I have to say its been annoying me lately also.

    Such as yesterday when we get a Mage in our group. I checked out his gear which looked like full t2 stuff so assumed he knew what he was doing. So after getting to the third boss in xDSM, wiping a few times and not seeing him reach more than 350 dps single target we decided to fake quit and get some guildies that knew what they were doing and we quickly finished the rest of the instance.

    It wasn't totally that though, his arrogance that he was playing well was also quite annoying. If it was one of our guildies we would have called him out and tried to help him with builds etc but how you can get full t2 stuff doing that sort of dps i don't know.

  10. #25
    Rift Chaser Hansenight's Avatar
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    I feel ur pain OP. Countless times I've ran with pugs doing subpar Dps making runs longer than needed. Now I always ask what spec before I invite a Dps. It's basically if your not a beastmaster/champ/para your not coming for warriors and if your not some combo nb/sin/rng or rng/sin/mark your not coming for rogues. If they pass the spec check I always check gear to make sure.

    There are just so many people out there with bad specs and gear it honestly makes me want to /wrists when I have to pug. Fresh 50 in mostly blues and a scalecuter I was able to 600ish Dps because I had a pretty optimal spec and rotation through researh and trial and error. Now full t2 and suncrusher I pull 900+ because I have since fine tuned my build/rotation. Yet ive seen people similarly geared doing sub 700. Sometimes it makes no sense :/
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  11. #26
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Santent View Post
    As of last night, i have officially completed every tier 1 and 2 instance. The group always consists of me (Cleric heals) and my brother (warrior damage mitigation specialist). We have pugged every DPS / Support class for every instance we have done. So far in all these encounters i have had only 3 or 4 players reach over 500 dps single target. These same players were also the only ones to get over 1000+ dps in trash packs. 90% of these pugs cant get over 350 dps EVER..... I am simply beginning to get very numb and quite rude because of it. I feel like an old man griping and screaming at pugs after i look at the parser the first few trash packs into an instance. It goes something like this
    "(character name) ... dude your doing 300 dps on trash packs.... i dont want to be in for 2 hours.. pick it up or im replacing you" .

    They usually respond with something like "wow... you d***, ill just leave if your going to be rude" . I think my server just might be full of ******s. I have tried making them come to the target dummy and "prove" they can do over 500 dps, but no one ever actually comes to do it, they either leave the group or just wont reply to me when i ask them to do it. Do people suck this bad? i mean really? Im only in 4 tier 2 purples and i can pull over 600 dps singlet target.

    So, whats with the crappy dps mayne?

    /rant off
    Quit being a jerk and try to help the people. You are rude and there are alot of people like you ruining the game. On the other hand i normally can face smash 500 dps with my rouge. Probably not the FToM build but it gets the job done.

  12. #27
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    personally I also suffer this issue, spending 2-4 hours in one dungeon because of people refusing to look at their rotations and such just isn't fun.

    It's generally not about gear either, the gear difference isn't so huge as to make up 300+ dps its just how their playing.

    That said I wouldn't stop someone joining due to spec but I'd offer them advice to increase their dps to a reliable amount.

    If the dps still isn't any good I'd probably just call it and leave, its not fun spending half a day in a dungeon that you've cleared before in a fraction of a time, but if people dont accept the help theres nothing you can do but leave and try a different group, you cannot force people (at least not till trions lfd finder) to conform to your expectations.

  13. #28
    Plane Walker Stabsy's Avatar
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    I'm astonished that so many people are outraged at the idea that there might be bad players in this game.

    Zone into a few warfronts. Check out the other people and see how many are actually good. The Pyro playing dot and run, the Ranger meleeing someone's pet. Then imagine that 3 of those were your dps for your tank and healer team.

    As for numbers I think 500 dps is unnecessary. We clear T2s in an hour with ACT showing 350-500 dps done by our dpsers on non-AOE boss fights. Obviously there's usually an amount of movement or downtime from being stuck in a crystal or cocoon. 500 dps as a minimum is quite a big ask for people with < T2 gear.

    There's plenty of terrible players out there. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there's people who can't break 200 dps on a movement fight like Calyx.
    Last edited by Stabsy; 05-03-2011 at 12:43 AM.
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  14. #29
    Plane Walker Stabsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SvnStrSlm View Post
    Quit being a jerk and try to help the people. You are rude and there are alot of people like you ruining the game. On the other hand i normally can face smash 500 dps with my rouge. Probably not the FToM build but it gets the job done.
    Out of interest how long do you stick with groups where your undergeared tank dies every other trash pull? Or is it just tanks and healers who have to not be jerks and help people?
    Guild Leader of Serenity on Bloodiron EU PvP
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  15. #30
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stabsy View Post
    I'm astonished that so many people are outraged at the idea that there might be bad players in this game.

    Zone into a few warfronts. Check out the other people and see how many are actually good. The Pyro playing dot and run, the Ranger meleeing someone's pet. Then imagine that 3 of those were your dps for your tank and healer team.

    As for numbers I think 500 dps is unnecessary. We clear T2s in an hour with ACT showing 350-500 dps done by our dpsers on non-AOE boss fights. Obviously there's usually an amount of movement or downtime from being stuck in a crystal or cocoon. 500 dps as a minimum is quite a big ask for people with < T2 gear.

    There's plenty of terrible players out there. It wouldn't surprise me at all if there's people who can't break 200 dps on a movement fight like Calyx.
    I really think it's less that people are raging about the sudden inference that everyone is terribad in this game, so much as they're annoyed by OPs general "holier than thou" tone. It's one thing to be an ***, and it's another to offer constructive criticism...

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