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Thread: loot rules and etiquette

  1. #1
    Rift Disciple Jerabek's Avatar
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    Default loot rules and etiquette

    I was in a pug the other day as a warrior tank and our group came across a BOE bow (http://rift.zam.com/en/item/D7C3A4DE...01/Fae-Longbow). Three people hit "greed" and I asked the group if I could "need" roll for my main spec since it was an upgrade to what I was currently using and it was [arguably] the best tank range wep pre-raid if you're working on a block set, which I was. The group said sure that I could "need" roll and I was very excited and grateful, but then a rouge also "need" rolled and ended up winning. I asked him why he rolled "need" and he responded that it was for his tank set which he was in the process of putting together (at the time, he told me he had 3 items so far). I asked him if he would be willing to sell the bow to me and he said it was too late because he had already equipped it. I asked him if rouges could even use the stat block and he said he honestly didn't know. Needless to say, I was very confused after this conversation. Here are my questions.

    1. Can rogue tanks use shields?
    2. If not I assume that the stat block is useless to them, yes?
    3. Is the general rule of thumb to only "need" roll on upgrades or at the very least, ask the group to "need" roll on a BOE upgrade?
    4. When "need" rolling on an upgrade, should only your main spec be considered or is it acceptable to "need" roll on an off spec item when someone in your party is "need" rolling on their main spec?
    5. How much responsibility is it of each player to know what stats are good for them vs other callings?
    6. In the scenario above, if the rouge was rolling because the tank bow had better dps then his current range weapon, would that make him eligible to need roll even though the stats are more defensive?

    I'm not writing this to complain or flame. I'm honestly interested in understanding if my expectations are off or if I'm making really poor assumptions in regards to loot rules and etiquette. With Rift, people are switching roles so often that maybe there is no such thing as a "main spec". Is that the case?

    Thanks in advance for any constructive feedback.

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    You aren't really going to find serverwide etiquette among players, espescially least not any sort of agreement on what that should be.

    If the player felt it was an upgrade for them, in an open group setting, he has a right to go NEED on the item, whether people feel it was "best" for him or not. Thats the main focus behind guilds and steady grouping with players because a true etiquette is created.

    The only way around it is to put more class restrictions on items and prevent people who can't use the item from rolling on it, or at least offer a "loot mode" when creating the group that does that.

    Of course that would lead to a whole other set of arguments from people.

  3. #3
    LCE
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    Normally on our server with BoEs, if someone asks to need on it and the group allows, we ask that they either

    1) Equipt the item immediately afterwards to let us ID
    2) Link their tradeskill before and after (if its a recipe drop)
    3) If everyone is from one guild and you are the lone outsider, you pass on souls at the end


    Otherwise, there is no way of knowing if the people are just going to dump it on the AH later with a different toon.

    This usually solves most problems, if the person refuses to equipt it, you know its going to the AH.

    And no, rogues can't block though its possible a Warrior that is 2handed has enough Vindicator to block while using a 2 hander (in some strange pvp specs, but thats also uncommon)

  4. #4
    Plane Touched Jesstival's Avatar
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    1. Rogues cannot use shields.
    2. Useless.
    3. There is no general rule of thumb. If loot rules are not specified at the start of a dungeon then assume you need on anything that is an upgrade. If you need on BoE, you should immediately equip it.
    4. It's generally bad form to roll need for offspec if someone is needing for mainspec, but it's not ninja-looting or any of the other bad accusations.
    5. 100% of the responsibility falls upon the player. Unfortunately, people are used to Wrath of the Lich King, in which you could go into an 80 heroic in greens with your DPS in heal specs and still win.
    6. Not over a Warrior who had more use out of its stats, unless his main role was Ranger or Marksman - then he could argue that point.

  5. #5
    Ascendant Jaya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jerabek View Post
    I was in a pug the other day as a warrior tank and our group came across a BOE bow (http://rift.zam.com/en/item/D7C3A4DE...01/Fae-Longbow). Three people hit "greed" and I asked the group if I could "need" roll for my main spec since it was an upgrade to what I was currently using and it was [arguably] the best tank range wep pre-raid if you're working on a block set, which I was. The group said sure that I could "need" roll and I was very excited and grateful, but then a rouge also "need" rolled and ended up winning. I asked him why he rolled "need" and he responded that it was for his tank set which he was in the process of putting together (at the time, he told me he had 3 items so far). I asked him if he would be willing to sell the bow to me and he said it was too late because he had already equipped it. I asked him if rouges could even use the stat block and he said he honestly didn't know. Needless to say, I was very confused after this conversation. Here are my questions.

    1. Can rogue tanks use shields?
    2. If not I assume that the stat block is useless to them, yes?
    3. Is the general rule of thumb to only "need" roll on upgrades or at the very least, ask the group to "need" roll on a BOE upgrade?
    4. When "need" rolling on an upgrade, should only your main spec be considered or is it acceptable to "need" roll on an off spec item when someone in your party is "need" rolling on their main spec?
    5. How much responsibility is it of each player to know what stats are good for them vs other callings?
    6. In the scenario above, if the rouge was rolling because the tank bow had better dps then his current range weapon, would that make him eligible to need roll even though the stats are more defensive?

    I'm not writing this to complain or flame. I'm honestly interested in understanding if my expectations are off or if I'm making really poor assumptions in regards to loot rules and etiquette. With Rift, people are switching roles so often that maybe there is no such thing as a "main spec". Is that the case?

    Thanks in advance for any constructive feedback.
    1. If it's an upgrade, need on it.
    2. If not, greed or pass on it.

    Talk about loot when you get invited to a group; if someone wants it to work differently than that, work it out and then everyone abide by it.

    The whole "it's an X class item, not a Y Class item because it's better for X than Y" needs to die in a fire. An upgrade is an upgrade, and you should not expect people to pass on upgrades in favor of you getting them unless you know each other.

  6. #6
    Plane Touched
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    Default Well..

    Yeah, you kind of just have to play it by ear.

    The fact is I'd be willing to bet the bow would help the rogue out more than just the DPS stat. I'm thinking it could have been an upgrade on STR or DEX as well right, especially if he has a Riftstalker Tank build? The thing I always tell my party members or guildies is Need if you need, sure one class may need it a little more because it also has a block stat, but if its an upgrade its fair game for all that need. Although in some cases it is nice when someone concedes it to the one that needs it more, which many of us do the quick check of who is it MORE of an upgrade for.

    But not everyone is going to play this way or even use proper etiquette so that is why its better to just move on and try that run again. If someone is a full-on ninja just boot and /ignore them from that point forward.

    Just my 2 cents. Later - hope you get your bow!

  7. #7
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    1. If it's an upgrade, need on it.
    2. If not, greed or pass on it.

    Talk about loot when you get invited to a group; if someone wants it to work differently than that, work it out and then everyone abide by it.

    The whole "it's an X class item, not a Y Class item because it's better for X than Y" needs to die in a fire. An upgrade is an upgrade, and you should not expect people to pass on upgrades in favor of you getting them unless you know each other.
    1. You didn't answer his questions
    2. No, Rogues cannot use block stats and shouldn't be needing on the Fae bow. They should run KB and get the Lion tamer; much easier to get anyway.

    Guy with either a maroon or he was lying and tossed it up on AH later that day. Either way, I'd blacklist him.

  8. #8
    Shield of Telara Kayden Fox's Avatar
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    I woulda been pissed. As a rogue tank, that's pretty useless. Block does nothing for us, and we prefer dex and endurance. Dex is bread and butter for all rogue callings. It raises attack, dodge, and parry. We don't get block as we don't get shields. Not knowing that should really bar him from being a tank.

    I've rolled need on warrior DPS weapons, but that's when they're 30DPS vs 24 and the dex was still higher than what I had. Yeah, designed for a warrior, but an upgrade is an upgrade. Sounds somewhat contradictory, but I can still benefit from heavy STR and none of the allowance is wasted on a stat I couldn't even use.
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  9. #9
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Pokket's Avatar
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    In all fairness, he was a rogue... but at the same time, he should have spoken up that he wanted it. At least he could use the item. It's better than the people that need everything, even though they can't use any of it.

    Just don't run with that dude again...

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Epiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaya View Post
    1. If it's an upgrade, need on it.
    2. If not, greed or pass on it.

    Talk about loot when you get invited to a group; if someone wants it to work differently than that, work it out and then everyone abide by it.

    The whole "it's an X class item, not a Y Class item because it's better for X than Y" needs to die in a fire. An upgrade is an upgrade, and you should not expect people to pass on upgrades in favor of you getting them unless you know each other.
    This is pretty much the standard rule.

    If one person rolls need on a BoE they can't use then I do too. Most Rift groups I get in now just say "need everything".

  11. #11
    General of Telara
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    The fact that the OP asked the group before rolling need is admirable. But it is emotionally unhealthy to covet what another has won regardless of how he did it, all it does is create extra bile. Play your game, others will play theirs.

  12. #12
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    Default yeah...

    If one person rolls need on a BoE they can't use then I do too. Most Rift groups I get in now just say "need everything".
    This isn't pointed at anyone in this thread but to me this is so annoying - we should be Greeding everything at most and only need if you need, even in Rift events! I wish Trion would make the Rift loot system work differently, i.e. if you can't use it won't let you need in rift rewards.

    Later.

  13. #13
    Plane Touched Epiny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocool32 View Post
    This isn't pointed at anyone in this thread but to me this is so annoying - we should be Greeding everything at most and only need if you need, even in Rift events! I wish Trion would make the Rift loot system work differently, i.e. if you can't use it won't let you need in rift rewards.

    Later.
    I completely agree, but until that happens needing everything is the fairest way in a Pug raid.

  14. #14
    Telaran
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    I am starting to hate the latest trend...

    I need money, so I need this. Who doesn't need money people? Have some class and don't roll need on everything. On Threesprings this is getting to be the norm. Rifts, groupings, etc; people are rolling need on everything they can. It makes me sick. If it isn't relevant to your class, then it is a greed roll.

  15. #15
    Rift Disciple Jerabek's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jocool32 View Post
    This isn't pointed at anyone in this thread but to me this is so annoying - we should be Greeding everything at most and only need if you need, even in Rift events! I wish Trion would make the Rift loot system work differently, i.e. if you can't use it won't let you need in rift rewards.

    Later.
    Thats an interesting idea and *could* work for bop items. I'm not sure how this could translate to a boe item though.

    Overall, I definitely agree that if "standard" loot rules are going to be modified, they should be discussed at the beginning of the run so that every player is on the same page. I think the issues start to show themselves because players have different understanding of what the "standard" loot rules actually are so most of the time, this discussion never takes place until after a situation has surfaced. Thankfully (and unfortunately) in my case, the rogue equipped it right away so at the very least I know its not going on the AH... unless he already had one and this was his second...now wouldn't that be devious.

    I'm not angry or jealous (well, not too much ), I was just looking for some community feed back to make sure I wasn't out of line in my expectations. Thanks for the comments.

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