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Thread: 10 man Dungeons: I have an Idea.

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    Rift Disciple orig's Avatar
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    Default 10 man Dungeons: I have an Idea.

    So it was hinted that we might be getting 10 man content. Whether we are or are not is yet to be confirmed, but I wanted to talk about my thoughts on how 10 man group composition could work.

    Depending on how 10 man dungeons are setup... it could help to span the gap between there being more DPS than healers and tanks. For exampe if the 10 man content is made so that a normal tank and normal healer + support heal can do it, that leaves room for 8-9 DPS slots. Only need to find 1 tank and then you can do 9 DPS (With 3-5 support healing.) Or 8 DPS with 1 healer. (and some support heals from the DPS.)

    This could help with more people being able to participate in the content instead of waiting for a tank or a healer. you get twice the through put out of finding 1 tank and 1 healer. 2+8 vs 2+3

    Now On my server, Aedraxis, I am a Tank and I have issues finding a T1 group... there does not seem to be an issue with healers or tanks... there is just not enough people sometimes... we will have a tank and 2 heals and need 2 DPS, but can't find any. So maybe there is not a misbalance of Heals/Tanks VS DPS in RIFT like in other MMOs?



    My other thoughts on 10 man content is maybe it can be scalable. You decide to start a group and you get your 5 people, but there are 2-3 other DPS still needing a group, well they can join you.

    And when you enter the dungeon a few things can happen. Either the HP and Armor on the Trash and Boss, scale down for your 5 DPS members, OR it simply takes longer to kill the trash and boss, but the DPS the boss puts out is the same.

    Or If you enter a 10 man dungeon with only 7 or 8 people your DPS all get a buff to help make up for the 2-3 missing people.

    This will make it so that the balance of Tanks/Healers vs DPS is not as bad, and so that if you can only find 7 people for a 10 man you don't have to leave 2 of them behind to go do a 5 man instead.

    Just a thought. I have not fully though this through, this is just the beginning of an idea I have.

    Oh and as a side note.. Once the LFD tool is released you could start a normal dungeon with the option of expanding to 10 members. So as you go through the dungeon and more people pop into your group the content scales.

    Again, I haven't fully thought this through, It is just an idea that popped into my head and I figured I would come here and explain it.

    I was just thinking of ways to give everyone a chance to participate in instances without a long wait time. I did not take much else into consideration

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  2. #2
    Champion of Telara Fiasco3's Avatar
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    Sounds pretty challenging...

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    Rift Disciple orig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiasco3 View Post
    Sounds pretty challenging...
    I am no programmer, so most anything sounds challenging to me if I try to wrap my head around the code involved. LOL

    But Considering they already have dynamic content in the rifts, and rifts that scale to groups and raids, AND that they like to brag about how they can do things on the fly... I think Rifts code might already have the ground work in place. To implement a dirty proof of concept in less than a week.

    If I am wrong i will by ALL of Trion Pizza... a Pizza... just 1. They will all have to cut it up and share... Bite size Costco sample pieces... and I will have to buy it from Aldi or Pricerite.. Only $3.50 for 2 pizza's

    Joking aside... I am sure the code involved is pretty intense, but I assume in Trion's case.. they could probably do it pretty quick... assuming they Want to do it assuming it's even an idea everyone likes...

    What is that thing they say about making assumptions?
    Last edited by orig; 04-26-2011 at 07:59 AM.

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    Shield of Telara HighFive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by orig View Post
    So it was hinted that we might be getting 10 man content. Whether we are or are not is yet to be confirmed, but I wanted to talk about my thoughts on how 10 man group composition could work.
    I read this and thought someone bumped a zombie thread, but the post date is today ...
    Sticky some #$%#^$# guides so that people stop asking the same question for the 100th time or posting information that is clearly wrong.
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    Rift Disciple orig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HighFive View Post
    I read this and thought someone bumped a zombie thread, but the post date is today ...
    I mean my definition of announced.. If it's not in the live patch notes, it's not announced.

    I know 10 man content existed during the beta events, and they have PTR notes and a few threads about 10 man content, but until i see it on the patch notes... it's not real.

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    Champion of Telara Fiasco3's Avatar
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    I meant what you are implying sounds stupid easy and just reinforces the joke that is 10 man raids.

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    Shield of Telara TheGreatGoogly's Avatar
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    I made a thread concerning a bit more flexibility from anywhere from 15-20 people but now were talking 10 man raids.

    Honestly 10 man raids barely even constitutes a raid anymore. Allowing scaling down to 8 or even something like 6 is ridiculous. How could we even consider this a raid anymore.

    Like i said before. I like me some flexibility but this simply would go too far.

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    Rift Disciple orig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fiasco3 View Post
    I meant what you are implying sounds stupid easy and just reinforces the joke that is 10 man raids.
    It's as easy or difficult as Trion wants to make it.
    Also, I apologize, I am not referring to RAID style content for this idea. Only Dungeons and such.. My idea is a way to include more people in 5 man content. Let it scale to 10 so a group with 5-10 people will always have a challange. Make getting a group together a bit nicer.. that way after you have formed your 5 man and see 2-3 other DPS still LFGing, you can invite them into the group. and once they enter the instance the content will scale.
    Last edited by orig; 04-26-2011 at 12:56 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGoogly View Post
    I made a thread concerning a bit more flexibility from anywhere from 15-20 people but now were talking 10 man raids.

    Honestly 10 man raids barely even constitutes a raid anymore. Allowing scaling down to 8 or even something like 6 is ridiculous. How could we even consider this a raid anymore.

    Like i said before. I like me some flexibility but this simply would go too far.
    Oh I am only speaking of 10 man Dungeon style content in this idea, Not raid content, Sorry should have clarified.

    I was trying to think of a way to help include more people when group forms for dungeons.. you will have X amount of DPS LFG and it takes a long time to find a tank and healer... this way once a tank and healer are found, then they can have up to 8 DPS with them instead of 3.
    Last edited by orig; 04-26-2011 at 12:58 PM.

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    Plane Touched
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    You know what I would like to see? 3 man dungeons and 'experts'.
    No, I would not want these to replace the current 5 man system.
    No, I don't want the gear drops to be equal to this.

    Would only need a tank, healer and a DPS. The point of these dungeons could simply be for fun, for crafting mats and possible plaques, fun items such as pets, mounts, and trinkets [i.e.guise of death], larger slot bags, and just a good way to earn some plat.

    They should be CHALLENGING, but at the same time they should be shorter and very casual friendly while appealing to the hardcore crowd.
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    Rift Disciple orig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by h0tmess View Post
    You know what I would like to see? 3 man dungeons and 'experts'.
    I like that idea. Infact I would prefer the 3 man content to be pretty tough. Cause with only 3 people organizing tactics should be very easy. Holy Trinity Only content.. bring it on!

    Make the drops more rare, Give us less plaques, and make it a good bit harder... Boom. Content for small groups.

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    The major flaw with this idea is that you would discourage players from playing tank/healer/support roles because there are fewer raid spots for them. As it stands right now, the DPS are already allocated more spots than tanks/heals.

    The way to get more players into the content is to:
    A) Create larger raid sizes (aka like the old 40-mans in WoW) or;
    B) Create smaller raid sizes so that more than one group in a guild can run the content.

    How many guilds in Rift run more than one raid group? So if you figure they have a guild of say 300+ people and they are only fielding a single raid, that's 20 people out of 300 that actually get to do the content. You are able to run multiple 5 mans because you have the tanks/heals to support more than a single group... if you had no need for those tanks/heals in a raid (due to only needing a single tank or healer), these players would strictly roll a DPS spec because there is no need for any other role in end game. You would actually end up with even more DPS sitting on the bench waiting for a raid spot than you do now.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tanay View Post
    The major flaw with this idea is that you would discourage players from playing tank/healer/support roles because there are fewer raid spots for them. As it stands right now, the DPS are already allocated more spots than tanks/heals.

    The way to get more players into the content is to:
    A) Create larger raid sizes (aka like the old 40-mans in WoW) or;
    B) Create smaller raid sizes so that more than one group in a guild can run the content.
    Ah yes, but my idea is not for RAIDs, sorry I forgot to clarify that in my original post, unfortunately I can't edit the post after 5 minutes or so (Please change this Trion so i can edit posts.)

    This is for a similiar issue you are talking about the fact that there are 10 DPS LFG for every 1 Tank LFG and 10 DPS LFG for every 1 Healer LFG. So my allowing content that can have 1 tank and 1 healer + 8 DPS will help to offset that.

    This way when a group forms with 1 Tank, 1 Healer, and 3 DPS and there are still 4 DPS LFGing they can all join this group and run the same content at a a slightly higher diffculty.

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    Prophet of Telara Albane's Avatar
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    Does the loot dropped scale as well? So if the bosses normally drop 2 items per kill, they only drop 1 if you have less than a full raid of 10?

    If the answer is No, all bosses drop the same amount and same level of epics, then you just created a new 5 man instance and no one will take extra people.

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    Rift Disciple orig's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albane View Post
    Does the loot dropped scale as well? So if the bosses normally drop 2 items per kill, they only drop 1 if you have less than a full raid of 10?

    If the answer is No, all bosses drop the same amount and same level of epics, then you just created a new 5 man instance and no one will take extra people.
    That's for Trion to figure out. I am just talking about the basics of the idea.
    There are lots of ways to do the gear I suppose... Less drops is one idea.
    Dropping gear in between 5 man and raids? Lotsa ways to do it.

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