Justicar Tanks in endgame raiding - aka "I guess I'll handle adds.."

[hateful]

I know there are threads touching on a similar, or the same issues, but they bring T1 and T2's into the discussion, which is entirely irrelevant, since we tank T1 and T2's fine. This thread is to adress the issues we have in a raiding environment specifically.

Right now Justicars are essentially shut out of endgame raiding, this is a fact. Most people don't care, since there's not that many Justicar tanks or they don't even know they can tank. Or they're just ignorant and argue that Justicars aren't supposed to be viable raiding tanks. To get that silly notion out of the way, I'll just ask, why is there tanking chain dropping in GSB? Why is there an entire tanking set from raid tier plaque gear? Why are rogues, another calling with only ONE tanking specific soul not only capable, but the preferred tank for most endgame raiding encounters?

Yeah, I know what the next counter from those people is. "OMG you can liek tank and dps and heal at same time, OMG u breaking the game". Cleric is indeed probably the most versatile class. But some people forget this game is different. I guess most of the complaining will come from Warriors, since they are arguably the least flexible class, and as such feel they should be the best tanks. I doubt this is what the devs intended. Just because they gave you more tanking souls then Clerics or Rogues doesn't mean that you should be the best. Most flexible, have a viable or semi-viable spec for everything, that's sounds more like it.

Now I just ask that Justicar tanks be brought up to a level where we can participate in endgame raiding. If Riftstalkers can, and I think they should, why shouldn't Justicars?

So lets get down to what's holding Justicars back in a raiding environment.

1. Magic tanking capability. We have none. We have 18% damage reduction. That is our magic tanking capability.
2. Our niche (healing) brings nothing to the endgame raiding table. Riftstalkers can tank bosses with massive magic damage or big hits easily. Warriors have unparalleled flexibility, the ability to spec for decent magic mitigation, as well as be the best physical damage tanks, as well as have the most aggro tools.
3. We are hard capped at 20% parry, our one real strength, while Warriors enjoy much higher block, and the ability to get decent parry with raid buffs and pots.
4. This is a side point, our raw threat capability is fine, some people can steal aggro, just as they can from Warriors or Riftstalkers. But they have more aggro TOOLS. Intercepts, multiple taunts, AoE taunts, etc. Tbh I wouldn't even so much mind this, it adds some challenge to playing the class, but together with our other faults, its another reason Justicars are falling behind right now.

It would be nice with a dev reply, not only on account of Justicar tanks, but also Warriors and Riftstalkers, that we know you are looking out for all three in endgame. Currently Justicar is out in the cold, and I'd like to know if this is going to change.

[Cromag]

You say Warriors are the least flexible then turn around and say they are the most flexible

[KRan]

You say Warriors are the least flexible then turn around and say they are the most flexible

Don't be dumb.

Least flexible calling, most flexible tanks.

[paspinall]

if you go look in the cleric section there is a thread started by a justicar who tanked Greenscale.

[hateful]

if you go look in the cleric section there is a thread started by a justicar who tanked Greenscale.

1. I don't think Radak has tanked Lord Greenscale. He says here that his guild WANTS him to tank it (obviously his guild is made up of patients from mental health care, no offense to Radak or his guildies intended )
2. Even if he somehow did, stacking one million life resist, and having healers rotate CD's to keep him up, it doesn't mean Justicar is a viable tank for that encounter, it means he has 19 players willing to do it with a sub par tank.

Some warriors are even whining they are finding it too hard. Where does that put Justicars?

[hateful]

Don't be dumb.

Least flexible calling, most flexible tanks.

Indeed, reading comprehension ftw.

[Slight]

in ROS i (a justicar tank) have been tanking many of the encounters. Mind you its not Main tank.. but i have my spot.

True there is a big misconception about Justicars as a viable end game tank to most people.. but meh.. ill just keep getting the free loot

[Greenmantle]

Right now Justicars are essentially shut out of endgame raiding, this is a fact. Most people don't care, since there's not that many Justicar tanks or they don't even know they can tank. Or they're just ignorant and argue that Justicars aren't supposed to be viable raiding tanks. To get that silly notion out of the way, I'll just ask, why is there tanking chain dropping in GSB? Why is there an entire tanking set from raid tier plaque gear? Why are rogues, another calling with only ONE tanking specific soul not only capable, but the preferred tank for most endgame raiding encounters?

.

Let me preface this by pointing out i have a justicar/shaman/druid and love it. It would be great if i could tank every thing in the game but now back to reality.

Raid, end game toughest mobs, equiped select group. There has always been one or two callings in the games ive played that are "the raid tanks"

Even other tanks complain that only the FOTM tank gets the raid tank role, the old no one wants Pallies everone wants guardians to tank raids and the why doesnt any one want my beserker to tank raids etc.

At the moment rouges make great tanks come 1.2 and the nerf bat it might be pallies next moth or Justicars in 6 months it might be different again. There will always be one prefered raid tank class/spec/equipment/stat it might vary butt here are always going to half a dozen tank types that arent the FOTM that dont like the idea, suxs but thats life in an MMO.

[hateful]

Let me preface this by pointing out i have a justicar/shaman/druid and love it. It would be great if i could tank every thing in the game but now back to reality.

Raid, end game toughest mobs, equiped select group. There has always been one or two callings in the games ive played that are "the raid tanks"

Even other tanks complain that only the FOTM tank gets the raid tank role, the old no one wants Pallies everone wants guardians to tank raids and the why doesnt any one want my beserker to tank raids etc.

At the moment rouges make great tanks come 1.2 and the nerf bat it might be pallies next moth or Justicars in 6 months it might be different again. There will always be one prefered raid tank class/spec/equipment/stat it might vary butt here are always going to half a dozen tank types that arent the FOTM that dont like the idea, suxs but thats life in an MMO.

That is indeed life in a MMO, so call me naive, but here I was thinking RIFT would be a little different. Rogues in support roles (bard) or tank (riftstalker), mages healing (chloromancer) on par with clerics. Warriors, well, at least they have some of the best dps and the most flexibility when it comes to tanking builds. So Justicar, y u no viable in endgame raiding?

In my mind, the perfect endgame raid tanking would be paper rock scissors. Riftstalkers are needed for one type of boss, Justicars for another, Warriors having less overall class flexibility should be able to be half assed substitutes for both AS WELL as be required and excel for a third type of boss. Everyone would be needed.

This would be ideal. Aww, Trion, make it so?

[Froster]

That is indeed life in a MMO, so call me naive, but here I was thinking RIFT would be a little different. Rogues in support roles (bard) or tank (riftstalker), mages healing (chloromancer) on par with clerics. Warriors, well, at least they have some of the best dps and the most flexibility when it comes to tanking builds. So Justicar, y u no viable in endgame raiding?

In my mind, the perfect endgame raid tanking would be paper rock scissors. Riftstalkers are needed for one type of boss, Justicars for another, Warriors having less overall class flexibility should be able to be half assed substitutes for both AS WELL as be required and excel for a third type of boss. Everyone would be needed.

This would be ideal. Aww, Trion, make it so?

You realize if this was the case that everyone would cry about balance much like you are crying now right?

[hateful]

You realize if this was the case that everyone would cry about balance much like you are crying now right?

Yeah, sharing constructive feedback for a class shut out of endgame raiding is crying. Shame on me.

[Vaine]

healers rotate CD's to keep him up

Newb question: What spells can healers rotate to keep him up?

[Fiasco3]

I see lots of justicars in raids. They just aren't tanking

[hateful]

Newb question: What spells can healers rotate to keep him up?

Tbh dunno if even that is viable, but I guess 44 and 51p Purifier shields and Sentinel for Healers Covenant.

I see lots of justicars in raids. They just aren't tanking

The way cleric itemization looks, we have a pure tank set in each tier. Why give us this if we are not going to be viable as main tanks? Seems clear to me that they intend us to be viable main tanks, else they shouldn't even have put cleric tanking gear on the loot tables, just left Justicar at being a support healer/dps, at best capable of switching to MoL and tanking a few trash mobs in spellpower/crit gear.

[MatAuric]

Cleric is indeed probably the most versatile class. But some people forget this game is different. I guess most of the complaining will come from Warriors, since they are arguably the least flexible class, and as such feel they should be the best tanks. I doubt this is what the devs intended.

This statement is idiocy. This game is not different, and this is exactly what the devs intended.
Just because we have tanking gear and tanking souls does NOT mean we should be raid tanks. The tradeoff for versatility is poorer performance. If you are only capable of doing 1 thing in this game, you should be the best at it. This is the only way to keep things balanced. If you cannot see this, then there is no hope.