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Thread: Bard vs. Chloro for 5 mans

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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Default Bard vs. Chloro for 5 mans

    I am noticing that the Chloro support build is far and away outperforming the bard as support/support heals. The chloro is doing more heals, more precise heals, more damage, and generally makes a bard look like a wasted spot. The t2 LFM messages are not saying looking for support class, they are saying looking for chloro/arcon.

    Bards need to do more damage to compensate. Cadence should be doing at least twice as much damage as healing, powerchord should be critting more like other 2 combo generating moves, and riff needs some more damage as well. Bard motif buffs Are excellent, as well as anthems, but currently the reality is, they are not strong enough in 5 man groups many times as compared to the ability to toss out a huge direct heal on a specific person at a specific time.

    There are a few choices, raise the total power level of the bard (this could get out of hand, I dont like the idea), or fork the road a bit, and decouple the damage to healing ratio, and buff one side or the other. I honestly think the way to go here is to buff bard's damage output, make the bard be doing dps numbers somewhere in between the tank, and the dedicated dps'ers. If you buff bard healing, it will quickly become evident you just need to stack bards and you wont even need a healer.

    Buffing Bard's damage makes bards less of a blanket and more of a group member. I dont think the coda's are where the buffs need to happen (well maybe resto), but during the combo point building.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 04-16-2011 at 09:40 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Rift Disciple skyrunner620's Avatar
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    Chloro isn't a support class, it's a main healer. I think it would be neat to up Bards to main healer level, but judging by the color of the raid frames, Bard is purple, the same color as Archon; which is support/buffer. Chloro is light blue, the same color as Cleric healers.

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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skyrunner620 View Post
    Chloro isn't a support class, it's a main healer. I think it would be neat to up Bards to main healer level, but judging by the color of the raid frames, Bard is purple, the same color as Archon; which is support/buffer. Chloro is light blue, the same color as Cleric healers.
    I am talking about the chloro arcon support build that is being requested for support/heals. The fact is support mages are being taken in droves over support rogues. Perhaps a chloro/lock build? Whatever is being rolled as an "off-healer" or support class.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 04-16-2011 at 09:53 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Prophet of Telara StealthStalker's Avatar
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    The Archon/Chloro is an offhealer? A guildie runs it to main heal most of our experts, and usually we have a justi or bard to offheal, and generally that's only needed for bosses.

    He's actually high enough Archon that his name is still pink showing support, instead of blue.

    Don't forget to support Dual Targeting in SWTOR and Prime Online.
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    Rift Disciple skyrunner620's Avatar
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    In a 5 man yes, you're probably right, Chloro/Archon gives decent buffs and can main heal or at least support heal very well. I don't run support in 5 mans. I run chloro/lock+3 DPS+tank and if I need help (Plutonus for example) I have a cleric DPS switch to heals and we 2 heal it.

    Chloro/Archon is a horrible build for raids though, you get a full 51 archon and your chloros go chloro/lock.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara StealthStalker's Avatar
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    Indeed.

    I like the archon/chloro in 5-mans for sure though.
    Last edited by StealthStalker; 04-16-2011 at 10:04 AM.

    Don't forget to support Dual Targeting in SWTOR and Prime Online.
    We didn't get it here, but perhaps we can help make the next games into what they should be.

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    I dunno... bard buffs are quite nice and generally some of the strongest and while they may not be on par with a main healer their versatility still makes them worth taking.

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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dasorine View Post
    I dunno... bard buffs are quite nice and generally some of the strongest and while they may not be on par with a main healer their versatility still makes them worth taking.
    Agreed that bards shine in many aspects of the game. In 5 mans though the bastard mix of a weak everything (except buffs) makes an already great group superb, but hardly is noticed in a mediocre-good group that is struggling. Increasing a bards damage allows the bard to contribute in the more common group without overbuffing the rarer great groups and in larger scale encounters.

    I am not suggesting that bards vault to the top of the dps chart, and in fact should be well behind the dps classes, but should be ahead of the tank for damage imo.
    Last edited by ShalarLight; 04-16-2011 at 10:13 AM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    A full 51 point bard is a great asset to the group, actually any well played bard is an asset

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    Sword of Telara
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    Opportunity + Charge + Neddra's + Silence + Vitality all outweigh the benefits of Archon.

  11. #11
    Shadowlander Haetus's Avatar
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    Chloro is a healing soul, unlinke bard which is a support soul. Archon, however, is also a support soul so you may want to compare archon vs bard
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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haetus View Post
    Chloro is a healing soul, unlinke bard which is a support soul. Archon, however, is also a support soul so you may want to compare archon vs bard
    I am comparing the souls being taken in the same capacity that a bard would fill, mages are doing better in 5 man groups, enough to push bards out of the group make up for alot of groups.

    Mages are healing-centric support, I am suggesting bards become more dps-centric support by buffing their damage capacity.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Rift Disciple LOLtex's Avatar
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    This is more of a mage problem that has unintended consequences on bard acceptability. Chloros are a MAIN HEALING soul, but going past 32 - 34 points in chloro is DETRIMENTAL to your healing. From there you go into either 32 warlock or 32 archon, and 32 archon is basically like a bard lite.

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    Ascendant ShalarLight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LOLtex View Post
    This is more of a mage problem that has unintended consequences on bard acceptability. Chloros are a MAIN HEALING soul, but going past 32 - 34 points in chloro is DETRIMENTAL to your healing. From there you go into either 32 warlock or 32 archon, and 32 archon is basically like a bard lite.
    If mages are not trivializing the content (are they? i dont know), then I would suggest refocusing the bard into damage-centric support, meaning does some healing, buffs the group, and directly contributes to shortening the fight with higher damage.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    FYI Riftstalker running isn't even pve. .... You might as well call riftstalker running PVE.

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    Rift Disciple LOLtex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShalarLight View Post
    If mages are not trivializing the content (are they? i dont know), then I would suggest refocusing the bard into damage-centric support, meaning does some healing, buffs the group, and directly contributes to shortening the fight with higher damage.
    No, they aren't; a good chloro heals slightly better than a good cleric, but has less "oh ****" tools in case something goes wrong. The reason you see so many chlorocons and warlock/chloros is due to the above, there's not only no reason to go past 32-34 pts Chloro, it actually hinders your performance by doing so.

    As far as bards go, I'm not sure how much of a problem it is as I've never been in a party with a bard and a chlorocon before (I'm a warlock/chloro myself). I can definitely see issues there, but as I said, I think that's more of a problem with Chloro being very bad to put more than 34 points into.

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