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Thread: Experts - unnecessarily long

  1. #1
    Soulwalker JimmyJames's Avatar
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    Default Experts - unnecessarily long

    I've been 50 for a while but the large block of time that must be set aside to run an expert dungeon, particularly dungeons like IT, makes it difficult to even get a daily in.

    I'm not suggesting making the dungeons any less difficult, but rather perhaps reducing the amount of trivial trash pulls, or breaking the quest up (kill 3 bosses or something and providing alternate routes in the dungeon to access those bosses) might make it a little better for those of us with wives, children, etc. that can make devoting uninterrupted time in two hour+ chunks difficult.

    Obviously skill of the group can make big differences in time but it seems even relatively smooth runs can take quite a while.

    The dailies seem to provide casual players with the means to (eventually) get geared up, but some of these dungeons—again, not because of difficulty but just the time investment—make it harder than it should be.

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Malok's Avatar
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    I agree. The difficulty has been great so far with T1/T2 experts so don't nerf anything. I wouldn't even remove any trash pulls to be honest. I just believe the health of trash mobs needs to be lowered a tad.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Malok View Post
    I agree. The difficulty has been great so far with T1/T2 experts so don't nerf anything. I wouldn't even remove any trash pulls to be honest. I just believe the health of trash mobs needs to be lowered a tad.
    Trash in KB first boss needs to be reduced heavily.
    Trash in DSM between Plutonus and 2nd to last boss should be reduced heavily.
    Trash overall in CC should be lowered or have less health. There are 5 pulls in the first boss's room alone, and that's after what.. 4-6 pulls just to get there assuming you don't skip it with sins.
    Trash in RD should be lowered slightly.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    I think that is part of what makes them fun at the start. As you get gear, most of this stuff is trivialized anyway and you can clear the whole dungeon in less than an hour. I think my guild group clears AP in 30 mins, CC in 45 mins, DD in 45 mins, etc. The only really long one is DSM which can take an 1h30m even with a smooth, constant pulling run.

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    Sword of Telara GoldenArrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    Trash in KB first boss needs to be reduced heavily.
    Trash in DSM between Plutonus and 2nd to last boss should be reduced heavily.
    Trash overall in CC should be lowered or have less health. There are 5 pulls in the first boss's room alone, and that's after what.. 4-6 pulls just to get there assuming you don't skip it with sins.
    Trash in RD should be lowered slightly.
    I agree, although in RD I don't have issues with the trash, I think the pace there is quite right.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    Yeah, trash in KB and especially DSM is a bit over the top.

  7. #7
    Telaran
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    T1's when I started them were taking 2 - 3 hours each to run.

    Now that I have run them, know the instance and am better geared. Most are < 1 hour (unless you are carrying some crappy people).

    T2's are taking 4 - 6 hours learning them right now with entry level gear. As gear goes up and knowledge of the zone increases I see that dropping to around an hour for them.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    I would have to agree. I love the difficulty. I'm just getting into the T1 stuff and it is tough and fun because it's tough.

    However, as a casual player, if I log on past a certain time at night, I don't even try to get into an expert group because I have to get up early for work/kids every day. I'll concede that if I wasn't a husband/father of 2/had a regular day job or just wanted to play less for whatever reason others have, length wouldn't be an issue. However, I am and I know that there are a lot of us out there in the same boat as me.

    I do appreciate that eventually a well geared group will be able to wipe the floor with these instances and knock them out within an hour for the msot part. However, during the gear up process, these things can take forever, which prevents me from getting gear--kind of a vicious cycle.

    Leave the difficulty alone, but get rid of some of the unneccessary stuff such as some of the trash mobs.

  9. #9
    Sword of Telara Ixath's Avatar
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    AOE 2 or 3 groups of trash at once.

    Skip unnecessary trash.

    If you don't have the time to do a full instance, buy some blue souls off the AH and do an expert rift.

    edit
    More trash = more BOE
    Last edited by Ixath; 04-12-2011 at 08:15 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by jMerliN View Post
    Trash in KB first boss needs to be reduced heavily.
    Trash in DSM between Plutonus and 2nd to last boss should be reduced heavily.
    Trash overall in CC should be lowered or have less health. There are 5 pulls in the first boss's room alone, and that's after what.. 4-6 pulls just to get there assuming you don't skip it with sins.
    Trash in RD should be lowered slightly.
    Add that hallway between the Three Kings and Boneguy to that list (Pace before Three Kings is mostly fine as long as you skip packs where possible).
    RotF needs a vacuum taken to its trash.

    Yes, getting decked out + group runs will knock it down to an hour for T1s, that doesn't make the trash any more enjoyable, just less time consuming. If you drop into a PuG for whatever reason, then you're often back to square one, with two hour runs. While trash can act as a bit of a competency/gear check, it provides minimal rewards for killing it: the bosses give plenty of rep, you don't get much money off the trash, and the occasional blue+ drop doesn't really compare to having guaranteed loot from bosses. Beyond that there's rarely any strategy required beyond an occasional CC if gear is lacking.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple
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    100% agree.

    The trash isnt hard. It is only time consuming. I have never understood this design mentality.

    If the designers want the dungeon to have life in it other than bosses the trash should be meaningful.


    AoE groups are stupid. They dont hit hard enough to kill anyone, and only exists to slow you down.

    Give me far fewer harder hitting patrols with normal elite mob health. Make the damage they do be the barrier, not the number of them.

    Place them in a way that makes you think about pulls. Have them be mini events as you go through the dungeon.

    Dont make me kill 100 mobs before each boss simply because you think there should be something other than bosses in a zone.

    I do understand that the kills provide notoriety, but hell, just increase the amount gained from the fewer mobs.


    I would much rather worry about each pull because the mobs are difficult enough that we have to actually have a plan for them, rathe than just worry about pulling too many each time.


    Currently that is the only difficulty for the trash. Can I pull this group of ten mobs and not the other group of ten mobs 5 feet away from them?

    As a riftstalker tank, all I do is spam AoE attacks on each trash pull. Thats it... in no way difficult. The only barrier being how many can I have hit me and still let the healer keep me up.

  12. #12
    Shadowlander
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    This I agree with. Dungeons can be made hard and difficult without having tons of meaningless trash mobs that are just that - trash.


    I feel brainnumb after each expert - not because they are hard but because they get boring from the trash. Reduce the number or their health and up their difficulty and give them fun abilities so that you need CC or counters, w/e.

    Boss fights in each instance sofar are pretty spot on. Fun but the fights are overshadowed by the tons of trash.
    Last edited by Hellgaunt; 04-12-2011 at 08:29 AM.

  13. #13
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    The dungeons are long so you can feel like you worked for them; otherwise, people would start complaining.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker am0nr3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searion View Post
    The dungeons are long so you can feel like you worked for them; otherwise, people would start complaining.
    Solution: You can use an item at the start of an instance. If you do, you'll go back to the high-trash count instance. Otherwise, it'll be reduced to a more enjoyable experience. Then, if you want to feel like you worked for it, you can flip that switch and feel like you worked for it. The rest of us can enjoy our dungeon run.
    Last edited by am0nr3; 04-12-2011 at 08:59 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by searion View Post
    The dungeons are long so you can feel like you worked for them; otherwise, people would start complaining.
    I'd be fine if we had 7-8 bosses in each zone, 1/5th the amount of trash, and the bosses were made 20-30% harder with new mechanics. I'm fine with a zone taking multiple hours, if that's spent doing an exciting fight as opposed to "pull.. heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal heal ... pull heal heal heal heal............ ad infinitum".

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