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Thread: Grief-ing Raid Rifts - Need Help or Advice

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    Telaran Kooby's Avatar
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    Default Grief-ing Raid Rifts - Need Help or Advice

    My guild opened the Terror of Death Raid rift last night in Stillmoor. We had some problems with people outside our guild messing with the rift, and it caused problems. There weren't any PvP issues, and it wasn't just Guardians trying to grief. We even had one Defiant guy come up and ask to Merge raids!

    So what basically happened was a lot of folks either running by questing, groups running around closing normal rifts, random people, etc, decided to stop and see what was going on. Of course most MMO players by our very nature don't make good spectators, so they had to get into the action. The biggest problem came on Ph4 with the charging floating Energy mobs. If you have done the encounter I am sure you can understand why.

    First off, I can't honestly say anyone was intentionally trying to sabotage our raid. It was more like people didn't understand what was happening or just wanted to "help" and we're making things worse. People get conditioned right from the start in Freemarch... see rift, run in, join, kill, get loots. The next half dozen or so zones its the same exact thing. So it is sorta understandable that people might not get that Raid rifts are different. But at the same time your guild has put some effort into opening it and organizing a group and would like to be able to enjoy the encounter without too much hassle from randoms.

    Some questions if you have dealt with this before.

    1) Are some raid tear locations better than others for privacy. We tried to get the tear just outside of Phoenix, but it closed before everyone in raid could zone in. So we opened one just outside of Zereph's. In hindsight that is a very highly traveled area and might not have been an ideal location.

    2) Has anyone had any success in zone chat or /say or /tell in getting people to back off. We tried all of the above and if anything it made the situation worse. We couldn't exactly tell the rfit mobs to take five while we explained what was going on. So it was more short to the point statements while in combat. I am thinking maybe we should have some pre-written macro statements that we could just click.

    3) Does anyone know if Trion has any plans to change the mechanics so maybe people who aren't part of the raid that opened the rift will have less interaction with the mobs. Maybe disabling taunts or initial aggro for those not in the raid.

    4) Would it just be better to plan Rift raids for off-peak hours?

    If anyone has any advice on how to better handle helpers or grief-ers please let me know.

    thanks,
    Kooby

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    I suppose it might be possible for Trion to 'raid lock' rifts that were opened by a raid, making them immune to anything others are doing?

    Haven't got there yet, but can imagine how annoying it must be.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Phase 4 can be pretty bad, but our main issue with griefing always comes in phase 2. Those "omgwtfthatwas19kdamage" mobs are broken. Not in that they hit too hard (we know the strat), but that if someone aggros one, they will run around and start 1 shotting people NOT in combat. So the "Let him pull and get owned" strat stopped working a few weeks ago. I can't remember exactly when this changed, but it's a problem.

    There are a few spots that raid rift tears can pop. We found that the one on the hill with the bats to be the best (for life/death). It takes some effort for Guardians to go up that way, and if you position yourself on the far side, you're even safer. They have to run through the rift to get to you, and the guardian GY is pretty far.

    Time of day won't matter, since it only takes 1 idiot to ruin your raid. Pull the chargers back pretty far. Unless said idiot has a healer, he'll probably die before he can get to your raid and do any damage.

    If they are taunting, trying to steal tags, or doing other random stuff that ultimately doesn't matter, let them. The reward is the chests, their deaths cost them money. We have yet to see the mobs drop anything of value.
    Anthal - 50 Cleric
    Guild Leader of Exiled on Galena

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    From my experience, most randoms just want to see what this is all about and try to help or get some normal rift rewards themselves. The raid rifts are more interesting than normal rifts after all.
    But sometimes they try to tag the final mob of Perdeen or the 10man death raid rift. This is pretty annoying when you are doing those rifts for the epic quest line and they die for it pretty quickly.

    As for that particular rift... when there are a lot of randoms, you really have to watch for you raid positioning correctly so you can pull everything out as far a possible so the randoms die before pulling something into you. Especially phases 2 and 4 are tricky but manageable.

    As for rift positions... I like that castle in the south of Stillmoor. It had a lot of non-rift mobs in it and you don't have much space but not many people come by and even less fight their way inside. Also I'd guess that it is the only position where raid rifts can be done on a PvP server because everyone approaching is forced through a bottleneck.

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Alektri's Avatar
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    My guild actually experienced the worst griefing with Water; in the phase where all four bosses are active, if an outsider gets aggro of any boss, even the axe-thrower or caster, they can run away from the rift and the boss will chase them out, resetting the entire stage. As the stage is timed, I'm sure you can see how this would really screw us. On second thought you know what, we experience the worst griefing from RANDOM INVASIONS SPAWNING FROM OUR RIFTS!

    Anyway, to answer your second question, it depends. Some people are jerks, and asking them to stop will only encourage them. However, we will still take the time to give a one-sentence explanation of incoming stages to outsiders that show up. Just a simple 'don't stand in fire' or 'they explode upon death' or 'they charge/cleave' is usually enough.

    Be wary of jerks; if they rush ahead to tag it first, let them (preferably also stay out of combat so they are slaughtered). Even if they get the tag, I'm sure you're aware it's irrelevant to your chest loot and quest completion. Also, people love to run up and taunt bosses that cleave, have your melee ready to move to the side (because being melee wasn't already dangerous enough).
    Alektri@Byriel
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alektri View Post
    On second thought you know what, we experience the worst griefing from RANDOM INVASIONS SPAWNING FROM OUR RIFTS!
    Oh yeah we had that, too. We opened an air raid rift and shortly after that an air event began. Since there were quite some people in the area, most normal rifts were closed quickly and all the randoms hurried to our rift. So countless elite invasions spawned from our rift, went south to an outpost that was quickly overrun (even running there when the quest outpost was already completely destroyed)... and then turned around and ran back north directly through the middle of our rift. It is hard enough to avoid them when they are spawning every 20 seconds and randoms pulling them. But then they even keep coming back?

    Also great fun when randoms keep taunting stuff AE knockback, breath attacks or a 20 m range cleave. Seriously, those taunters are the worst... do they really want to tank that giant white dragon with their 5 k hp? they think it will increase their contribution but they just die, resurrect, taunt again...
    Especially taunts need a bit of fixing in raid rifts imo. Just too much potential for griefing.

  7. #7
    Telaran Kooby's Avatar
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    Thanks for sharing your ideas, there is some good stuff there. I will definitely keep it mind next time.

  8. #8
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    Most of the fights arent a problem tbh,

    there are some stages that are quite troublesome, such as:
    - death rift stage 4, even when you got a random person that is of the same faction, youre pretty much ****ed, he pulls 1, runs into your raid, you get aggroed as well without even touching. And if you pull several of them, its pretty much gg.
    - if you get ganked during last fight air rift that would be gay as the fight itself is already lame. Stage 2 also kinda.
    - Timer phase 4 I think of water rift where you gotta kill all those bosses, it takes a long time to kill them all and you only could pull another try if you wipe, so gg if ur getting backstabbed.
    - Wouldnt be surprised if last phase of water rift can also easily instantly wipe the raid, just get downpour, have some people hug the clerics or tank and you are pretty much done for.

  9. #9
    Rift Disciple epitaxial's Avatar
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    I've seen a few of these - the best thing to do right now is to either /say or /yell that it's not the standard game generated rift and please do not help/interact with anything. Most people will understand - but there are a few who will either ignore you or simply don't understand "english".

    I just wonder if it's possible to "Phase" the event [ie: those in the group can only see/participate the RIFT event while it's "invisible" to anyone who isn't in your group]? Or perhaps the easier solution is to place these types of events in their own "instance" [similar to when you enter a dungeon]?
    How do you kill, that which has no life?

  10. #10
    Soulwalker
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    aye, we've had this problem quite a bit too, especially the death one.

    death is like its made for griefing, the insta gib mobs in phase 2, if 1 random guy pulls them and they agro onto your raid (which happens a lot for us) you only have a split second to react before half your raid is gone. the wisp phase again, if someone pulls more than 1 or 2 into the raid, its most likely a wipe. in the first boss phase, if randoms are just dpsing random targets and you get all the little critters running around in the group exploding, its a wipe again.

    i havnt done water/air yet so i cant comment on them, but life is quite a nice one as its hard to be griefed by your own faction :P

    basically its annoying, as you either have to risk taking a raid tear near an outpost and get griefers, or wait for one to spawn in a better place. and even then people can come screw it up.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara GoldenArrow's Avatar
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    Personally I find it annoying at the current state of game how much effort goes into opening a raid rift just to be ganked at stage 4 >_<

  12. #12
    Shield of Telara HighFive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rofltehcat View Post
    From my experience, most randoms just want to see what this is all about and try to help or get some normal rift rewards themselves. The raid rifts are more interesting than normal rifts after all.
    But sometimes they try to tag the final mob of Perdeen or the 10man death raid rift. This is pretty annoying when you are doing those rifts for the epic quest line and they die for it pretty quickly.

    As for that particular rift... when there are a lot of randoms, you really have to watch for you raid positioning correctly so you can pull everything out as far a possible so the randoms die before pulling something into you. Especially phases 2 and 4 are tricky but manageable.

    As for rift positions... I like that castle in the south of Stillmoor. It had a lot of non-rift mobs in it and you don't have much space but not many people come by and even less fight their way inside. Also I'd guess that it is the only position where raid rifts can be done on a PvP server because everyone approaching is forced through a bottleneck.
    Basically, Trion failed on their Raid Rift design. It should be instanced or phased. Perdeen, the expert rift, is also suck for the reason mentioned above and also mind numbingly boring. It basically reminds me of having to do Jailbreak 100 times for guildmates.

    The raid rifts aren't fun, aren't very challenging, but you need to do them to gear up for Greenscale. It doesn't make any sense. Basically, if I wasn't working on the Greenscale raid, which I enjoy, I would've quit the game 2 weeks ago.

    I started a thread on the Greybriar forum to try and educate people, but I think the players who cause the problems enjoy griefing people and Trion is fine with that.

    We had one guy that asked to join our full raid as a tank.

    1. Why would we take a random tank into a guild raid rift event who was under geared and probably didn't know the event?
    2. Why would you take a random person into any raid rift event who hasn't contributed to collecting the mats required to open the raid rift?

    I can't even imagine the problems that people have trying to do this content on a PvP server.

    Lastly, the southern castle doesn't work because it's such a tight area and has a lot of normal mobs that spawn there. We tried that a few nights ago and people just pulled all the mobs on to us. Yes, you should be able to ignore them and they shouldn't aggro you, but well ... there's still a few bugs in the system and the griefers have found and use most of them.
    Last edited by HighFive; 04-11-2011 at 09:20 PM.
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  13. #13
    Shield of Telara idefiler6's Avatar
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    Ticket a GM. This kind of griefing is against the TOS and EULA. I had a guild ****ing up phase 2 of Terror one night, they would taunt the mob after it's damage buff was removed, then run out and reset it. It would come back, aggro and start oneshotting. The leader of said guild is a child. Been speaking with a GM about it, they are seeing what they could do but as usual, are understaffed for all of the requests coming in.
    Kalistrasz
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  14. #14
    Shield of Telara HighFive's Avatar
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    I'd say, it don't have to gear up for Greenscale, don't bother doing the raid rifts until Trion puts them in separate instances.

    Quote Originally Posted by idefiler6 View Post
    Ticket a GM. This kind of griefing is against the TOS and EULA. I had a guild ****ing up phase 2 of Terror one night, they would taunt the mob after it's damage buff was removed, then run out and reset it. It would come back, aggro and start oneshotting. The leader of said guild is a child. Been speaking with a GM about it, they are seeing what they could do but as usual, are understaffed for all of the requests coming in.
    CS is 0/6 so far on a variety of simple requests. They'd be 0/20, but it took them a week and a half to even look at 2 of my tickets, which they didn't read. I had to reopen one 5 times before they actually sent me a response that indicated that they had read the ticket. Issue not resolved. Solution, put your bug in the feedback form.
    Last edited by HighFive; 04-11-2011 at 09:24 PM.
    Sticky some #$%#^$# guides so that people stop asking the same question for the 100th time or posting information that is clearly wrong.
    "Death to the dragons!" -
    Defiant NPCs
    "I will do my part, but I have no desire to play the hero" -
    Kira during Unseen Agent quest chain
    "Death is the best interrupt" - Guildie one night when we were doing expert RD
    Saga of the Endless guide: http://www.unseenagent.net/guides/qu...of-the-endless


  15. #15
    Shield of Telara idefiler6's Avatar
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    This really is BS though. We can fully deal with nearly any Guardian force that comes in, but can't PK our own faction, so we're fully at the mercy of Trion. I've told my guild we won't be bothering with rift raids until I get a real response from Trion about it. Not worth wasting the souls.
    Kalistrasz
    Level 50 Warrior
    "Strong people are harder to kill than weak people, and more useful in general." - Mark Rippetoe

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