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Thread: 90% of your problems finding a group cannot be solved by merges or dungeon finders.

  1. #1
    Plane Touched Niia's Avatar
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    Default 90% of your problems finding a group cannot be solved by merges or dungeon finders.

    Its true. The problems people complain about in regards to finding groups aren't problems that you can fix by simply throwing more people at it.

    The fact of the matter is, for every tank or healer or handful of support classes, there are 20 people who will only play as dps. What does this mean? LOTS of competition for groups.

    Throwing more people at the problem isn't going to help you if you are a pure dps who is disgruntled with being unable to find groups - the tank/healer/support to dps ratio will remain the same, and you will still be waiting in line with a zillion other dps for the handful of tanks and healers. Merging a server or putting in a dungeon finder isn't going to do much to change this - it certainly didnt change in WoW - pure dps experienced an hour or more of wait times - healers and tanks got near instant queues. It is just how it goes.

    I play as a cleric. While I have a blast in my cabalist/inquisitor spec, I go puri/sent for experts because it is what is needed. I can sit around complaining that no one will invite me to groups, or I can fix the problem myself and be versatile. When I shout for dps, I get literally at least a dozen tells on my medium pvp server. The number of dps who then have only one spec, aren't properly geared, melee with no ranged spec for certain fights, mages with no aoe spec or single target spec.. its simply ridiculous.

    I've run with a total of one mage with a chloromancer spec and most spend half the dungeon casting aoe spells on a single target, most rogues don't have a bard spec or even an alternate ranged or melee spec. Numerous dps don't have appropriate focus or hit, people try to come in to dungeons with pvp souls and specs. I've seen countless pieces of brand new, freshly added rogue tank gear get refused by the same rogues who complained upon invite how long they had been waiting for a group. I just don't get it. Why make things harder for yourself?

    Do people really believe that a server merger or dungeon finder is magically going to make 100 tanks and healers appear out of thin air? Get real - adding 25 people to a server or a dungeon queue is going to leave you with 20 more dps complaining they cant find a group, 1 tank, 1 healer, and a few bards and chloros.
    Niia - 50 Mathosian Cleric Heals
    Unicorn - 38 Dwarf Mage

    <Threshold>
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  2. #2
    Shadowlander Terezi's Avatar
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    I'll start healing for PUGs again when the attitude people have toward healers and clerics in general stops sucking.
    GC: TH1S 1S WHY W3 C4NT H4V3 N1C3 TH1NGS >:?

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Worf's Avatar
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    The age-old dilemma... dps will always greatly outnumber tanks and healers.
    Because nobody wants the responsibility of having to keep the group alive.

    Then DPS complain that they can never find groups, so they need a dungeon finder.
    And when you suggest to them that maybe they should put together a tank/heal role, they declare that they shouldn't have to change their playstyle to get groups.

    And around the merry-go-round we go...
    Worf Runt

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Funny you say that because 2 of the last 5 groups I joined had troubles finding DPS.
    EU - Whitefall - Rhamza
    EU - Bloodiron - Ramza

  5. #5
    Plane Touched
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    I use rift stalker/bard rogue specs.... Its still impossible to get groups together because no one is a healer it seems.

  6. #6
    Rift Master Sskzins's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamzaBeoulve View Post
    Funny you say that because 2 of the last 5 groups I joined had troubles finding DPS.
    It's just hard to find people period. The problem isn't that a role is lacking, it's that people in the level ranges are lacking. It exists and happens in every mmorpg that's been released since literally the first ones.

    This many years later, can we finally have a game that addresses that issue BEFORE it happens?

  7. #7
    Plane Touched Niia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RamzaBeoulve View Post
    Funny you say that because 2 of the last 5 groups I joined had troubles finding DPS.
    I've never in my life had trouble finding a dps unless i am trying to put a group together at 7 am or some other strange hour. Granted, I will give you that a few servers need an infusion of players, but the fact of the matter is the majority of these problems wont be solved by adding more people - there will still be way too many people only willing to play dps, and too few healers and tanks.
    Niia - 50 Mathosian Cleric Heals
    Unicorn - 38 Dwarf Mage

    <Threshold>
    Guardian - Reclaimer PvP

  8. #8
    Plane Touched Redrowen's Avatar
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    most people fail to realize that the DPS in general is irrelevant.

    Putting together on my Server is simple.

    I'm a tank, have been since I started Rifts (and never had a problem getting a group, funny that)
    So I ask my list of healer friends whom I met while leveling / pugging / etc
    Once The healer and I are together, we advertise for 3 monkeys that can face roll buttons.

    /profit.

    DPS just needs to remember, you are not a special snow flake, you are easily replaced and I really don't care what you are or what numbers you put out. So long as i'm not up against a DPS timer, you can go in naked and slap things with your noodle for all I really care... Just remember you are easily replaced with a lineup of others crying in 50 chat LFG DPS.

    <3
    Last edited by Redrowen; 04-10-2011 at 02:34 PM.
    PVP: R8
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  9. #9
    Telaran Fhero's Avatar
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    I have to agree...tanks/healers that are dungeon ready and are good players are hard to find. That is exactly why everyone can't find groups.

    Tank/Healer is the one role that cannot gimp on their gear. Hell dps roles can gimp on stuff and not be worried or even go from fresh 50 to expert dungeons so why wouldn't you play dps. Besides playing dps if you do enough dungeons you will most likely run into a tank/healer that has that particular piece of gear that drops and you can need on it because they already have it. So yet again your getting a double win if you go dps so who wouldn't do that.

    I have to agree with the OP. A LFG tool/server merger won't help but rather what people should be doing is helping their friend that can tank get tanking gear with proper stats so you won't have to worry about that anymore. Same goes if you have a friend that can be a healer. Help them to help yourself.

    The only other thing possible is if Trion could make it to where you can pickup Tank/Healer welfare blues that are just under the stuff of normal dungeons to obtain no matter the level easier. I know its not the best idea but it can help those callings who can tank/heal. So people can start tanking/healing dungeons alot faster and in turn gives the community an injection of tanks/healers that are willing to do this role.

    Without the proper gear it stops people from fullfilling that particular role. You have 4roles so i wouldn't see why the wellfare gear couldn't be easier to get for these roles. Isn't that why we have rift/invasions so we can get rare planar goods but you can't get the good stuff because the d**mn stones that you need don't ever drop enough. Trion try to fix that if you could. How about instead of waiting for a ancient stone..how about a conversion of 5 ancient shards to 1 stone.

    I'm just happy i'm a warrior to where i only need two sets of gear for dps and tank. I feel sorry for the rest that need about 3 gear sets for tank/healer/dps. Not to mention you would have to add another gear set if your PvP but thats seperate from this discussion.

    Okay my essay of my thoughts on this is done. Laters Peeps ^_^

  10. #10
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sskzins View Post
    It's just hard to find people period. The problem isn't that a role is lacking, it's that people in the level ranges are lacking. It exists and happens in every mmorpg that's been released since literally the first ones.

    This many years later, can we finally have a game that addresses that issue BEFORE it happens?
    WoW finally fixxed this with interserver LFG. You can find a group for any dungeon at any level range pretty easily.

    It came at the cost of server community being restricted to raids and so on, but its just fantastic for leveling alts and farming.

  11. #11
    Telaran Atragene's Avatar
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    I'm a healer and honestly, I still would like a dungeon finder. Instant groups will be lovely.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched Niia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fhero View Post
    I have to agree...tanks/healers that are dungeon ready and are good players are hard to find. That is exactly why everyone can't find groups.

    Tank/Healer is the one role that cannot gimp on their gear. Hell dps roles can gimp on stuff and not be worried or even go from fresh 50 to expert dungeons so why wouldn't you play dps. Besides playing dps if you do enough dungeons you will most likely run into a tank/healer that has that particular piece of gear that drops and you can need on it because they already have it. So yet again your getting a double win if you go dps so who wouldn't do that.

    I have to agree with the OP. A LFG tool/server merger won't help but rather what people should be doing is helping their friend that can tank get tanking gear with proper stats so you won't have to worry about that anymore. Same goes if you have a friend that can be a healer. Help them to help yourself.

    The only other thing possible is if Trion could make it to where you can pickup Tank/Healer welfare blues that are just under the stuff of normal dungeons to obtain no matter the level easier. I know its not the best idea but it can help those callings who can tank/heal. So people can start tanking/healing dungeons alot faster and in turn gives the community an injection of tanks/healers that are willing to do this role.

    Without the proper gear it stops people from fullfilling that particular role. You have 4roles so i wouldn't see why the wellfare gear couldn't be easier to get for these roles. Isn't that why we have rift/invasions so we can get rare planar goods but you can't get the good stuff because the d**mn stones that you need don't ever drop enough. Trion try to fix that if you could. How about instead of waiting for a ancient stone..how about a conversion of 5 ancient shards to 1 stone.

    I'm just happy i'm a warrior to where i only need two sets of gear for dps and tank. I feel sorry for the rest that need about 3 gear sets for tank/healer/dps. Not to mention you would have to add another gear set if your PvP but thats seperate from this discussion.

    Okay my essay of my thoughts on this is done. Laters Peeps ^_^
    I do have to agree with you on the matter of making the entry level tanking gear easier to get. Toughness should be much more plentiful early on and introduced early on via quest rewards so players understand its usefulness. Gearing up as a healer isnt too terrible though in my opinion - we are lucky to not have any hard and fast rules for hit/toughness/focus like tanks and dps do - our only real barrier is having enough mana to make it though a fight, something that is easily fixed with a few mana pots until you have geared up enough.

    Also, don't get me wrong - I'm not against a dungeon finder at all, it would be great for convenience purposes. People just need to realize it isnt going to magically put an end to all their problems finding a group as dps.
    Last edited by Niia; 04-10-2011 at 02:41 PM.
    Niia - 50 Mathosian Cleric Heals
    Unicorn - 38 Dwarf Mage

    <Threshold>
    Guardian - Reclaimer PvP

  13. #13
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niia View Post
    Its true. The problems people complain about in regards to finding groups aren't problems that you can fix by simply throwing more people at it.

    The fact of the matter is, for every tank or healer or handful of support classes, there are 20 people who will only play as dps. What does this mean? LOTS of competition for groups.

    Throwing more people at the problem isn't going to help you if you are a pure dps who is disgruntled with being unable to find groups - the tank/healer/support to dps ratio will remain the same, and you will still be waiting in line with a zillion other dps for the handful of tanks and healers. Merging a server or putting in a dungeon finder isn't going to do much to change this - it certainly didnt change in WoW - pure dps experienced an hour or more of wait times - healers and tanks got near instant queues. It is just how it goes.

    I play as a cleric. While I have a blast in my cabalist/inquisitor spec, I go puri/sent for experts because it is what is needed. I can sit around complaining that no one will invite me to groups, or I can fix the problem myself and be versatile. When I shout for dps, I get literally at least a dozen tells on my medium pvp server. The number of dps who then have only one spec, aren't properly geared, melee with no ranged spec for certain fights, mages with no aoe spec or single target spec.. its simply ridiculous.

    I've run with a total of one mage with a chloromancer spec and most spend half the dungeon casting aoe spells on a single target, most rogues don't have a bard spec or even an alternate ranged or melee spec. Numerous dps don't have appropriate focus or hit, people try to come in to dungeons with pvp souls and specs. I've seen countless pieces of brand new, freshly added rogue tank gear get refused by the same rogues who complained upon invite how long they had been waiting for a group. I just don't get it. Why make things harder for yourself?

    Do people really believe that a server merger or dungeon finder is magically going to make 100 tanks and healers appear out of thin air? Get real - adding 25 people to a server or a dungeon queue is going to leave you with 20 more dps complaining they cant find a group, 1 tank, 1 healer, and a few bards and chloros.
    A dungeon finder is so much more efficient than chat spam you'd have to be an idiot to say it wouldn't improve things.

    Wait this is awkward....

  14. #14
    Rift Master Sskzins's Avatar
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    Well the more dungeons you run, the more tanking gear you'll get. The problem is, you don't need to tank for a solo quest, and requiring groups to quest causes it to be worse than just finding groups to do an instance.

    I think it was just once again, forgetting that people level past content.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    maybe you have a point, but merging servers will benefit many aspects of the game and not only dungeons. (imo LFG will offer much because anyway its better waiting a queue than spamming...)
    the most importand will be that you will be able to find others in rifts to group with them. at least in my server (EU-Cloudborne) the posibilities of finding a group at rifts are lower than 10% and its a medium-high server.
    it will also benefit the AH and the economy of the game in general. you cant sell nothing at AH and its very hard to get other money, than those from quests and vendors.
    you are playing an mmo. its good to see ppl when moving around. either you are doing quests, rifts, farming or just walking, its nice to feel you are not alone. its nice to see that the world is alive
    another matter is world pvp. i like it (as many others) much more than arenas, bg's etc. i think, at least at pvp servers, the world must be a dangerous place to both factions. so you need as many as possible running around.
    Last edited by manolaren; 04-10-2011 at 02:46 PM.

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