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Thread: Rift, end-game, and the players...

  1. #1
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    Default Rift, end-game, and the players...

    I really feel that the end-game is a fail when it comes to Rift... partly do to design and partly do to this generation of gamers..


    As for the design of the game.. I dont understand why the devs made it so you can play all of these different souls/roles and then turn around and want you to make cookie cutter builds in order to tackle Expert dungeons.. It turns into number crunching and gear/stats. I have to make a NB/sin build just so people will respect my DPS as a melee rogue... Even then people rather have DPS warrior because its a number crunch and Warriors have better DPS output.. The devs give this illusion that you can build the type of toon you want but then you have to be cookie cutter to do end-game...the devs made it so you can zerg everything with the right stats/gear and thats not a good thing..



    This is also partly do to the players.. The want to zerg everything and dont want to use crowd control or use different strategies/tactics (with people that dont have max stats or best gear).. Its tank and spank or nothing... Its this gen of gamers that want instant gradification.. That dont want challenge and that want everything to be easy.. Sorry your gear is not good enough.. Wow you have low DPS.. so on and so on... Then again the devs cater to these players and dumb everything down to the point where is ends up being about number crunching and gear..


    What ends up happening is people wont even group with each other or meet new people becasue pug = bad.. So if you're guildmates are not on you cant even get a group together.. Because everyone is scared to pug a 5man.. no one wants to sit in a 5man for 4 hours+ wiping (mostly do to people only wanting to zerg) so everyone judges people off their gear and builds... It ruins the sense of community that a MMORPG should have...


    I did the 6 month sub but starting to regret is alrdy....

  2. #2
    Plane Touched
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    You seem to be a bit confused as far as number-crunching and gear goes. People do that whether or not content is difficult. And in fact if difficulty is higher, the more prevalent is number-crunching because you usually actually need to optimize to tackle the content. As you said yourself, you need cookie-cutter builds... so in effect you contradict yourself by saying dumbed down content leads to number-crunching.

  3. #3
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manakar View Post
    I really feel that the end-game is a fail when it comes to Rift... partly do to design and partly do to this generation of gamers..


    As for the design of the game.. I dont understand why the devs made it so you can play all of these different souls/roles and then turn around and want you to make cookie cutter builds in order to tackle Expert dungeons.. It turns into number crunching and gear/stats. I have to make a NB/sin build just so people will respect my DPS as a melee rogue... Even then people rather have DPS warrior because its a number crunch and Warriors have better DPS output.. The devs give this illusion that you can build the type of toon you want but then you have to be cookie cutter to do end-game...the devs made it so you can zerg everything with the right stats/gear and thats not a good thing..



    This is also partly do to the players.. The want to zerg everything and dont want to use crowd control or use different strategies/tactics (with people that dont have max stats or best gear).. Its tank and spank or nothing... Its this gen of gamers that want instant gradification.. That dont want challenge and that want everything to be easy.. Sorry your gear is not good enough.. Wow you have low DPS.. so on and so on... Then again the devs cater to these players and dumb everything down to the point where is ends up being about number crunching and gear..


    What ends up happening is people wont even group with each other or meet new people becasue pug = bad.. So if you're guildmates are not on you cant even get a group together.. Because everyone is scared to pug a 5man.. no one wants to sit in a 5man for 4 hours+ wiping (mostly do to people only wanting to zerg) so everyone judges people off their gear and builds... It ruins the sense of community that a MMORPG should have...


    I did the 6 month sub but starting to regret is alrdy....
    Couldn't have said it better, and I've tried to..

    At first look this class system looks very cool and dynamic. But like you said, at end game the call for specific builds is already happening. People "telling" me what souls I should be if I want to get invited into Dungeon runs...
    Number crunchers and min-maxers raising their elitist heads to make fun of anyone who just wants to see the dungeons and have fun along the journey...

    I'm fed up with end game already because of this. And due to the very limited paths you can take when rolling a new toon, alt's aren't much fun either..........

    Maybe developers should re-think end game mechanics and content. A paradigm shift is needed in the way MMO's are developed and implemented. The tried and true, just ain't cutting it anymore.
    Anyway, most of the casual subscribers never get to see the end game dungeons because of the sickening elitism in MMO's.......
    Bah, put the RPG back in my MMO and lets remember why we started playing these games in the first place.
    Last edited by DeLuge; 04-09-2011 at 12:51 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thevryn View Post
    You seem to be a bit confused as far as number-crunching and gear goes. People do that whether or not content is difficult. And in fact if difficulty is higher, the more prevalent is number-crunching because you usually actually need to optimize to tackle the content. As you said yourself, you need cookie-cutter builds... so in effect you contradict yourself by saying dumbed down content leads to number-crunching.
    Ahh wrong.. Content shouldnt be about number crunching.. And more about tactis/strartegy and the players skills... Try harder next time.. As it is now people want to ZERG content.. There is nothing difficut or challenging about it... Its just a number crunch... We have the stats so we can now zerg the content without worry...

  5. #5
    Plane Walker
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    You dont seem to understand team games. Anything you do with a team of people in a game is going to 9 times out of 10 have the other people in the team want to do it in whatever way is most efficient/convenient. Nothing the developers do will change this really. If they make it so any class combo can complete a dungeon (which most combos can) then players will still tend to take the combo that lets them complete it the fastest. Human nature.

    You want to play the game how you want to, with whatever class combo/soul makeup you want correct? And there is nothing wrong with that, and you are perfectly able to do so. However, you have to then respect the want of the other players to want to play with people that spec a certain way. Their playstyle is every bit as valid as yours. You cant say respect my playstyle while disrespecting theirs. That's hypocritical.

    You just have to realize you need to find people with the same ideas/playstyles as yours and group up. If the "elite min maxers" find someone that refuses to play how they like, they find someone who will play like they like. I suggest you do the same.

    And many people don't ask at all how you spec a class. I have never asked someone how they specced, nor have I cared. I only care about what role they are going to perform. If they fit that, I take them. I may ask them to go ranged, as several fights are really really difficult in melee as DPS, but Trion has already saw that issue and is working to correct it.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calsedon View Post
    You dont seem to understand team games. Anything you do with a team of people in a game is going to 9 times out of 10 have the other people in the team want to do it in whatever way is most efficient/convenient. Nothing the developers do will change this really. If they make it so any class combo can complete a dungeon (which most combos can) then players will still tend to take the combo that lets them complete it the fastest. Human nature.

    You want to play the game how you want to, with whatever class combo/soul makeup you want correct? And there is nothing wrong with that, and you are perfectly able to do so. However, you have to then respect the want of the other players to want to play with people that spec a certain way. Their playstyle is every bit as valid as yours. You cant say respect my playstyle while disrespecting theirs. That's hypocritical.

    You just have to realize you need to find people with the same ideas/playstyles as yours and group up. If the "elite min maxers" find someone that refuses to play how they like, they find someone who will play like they like. I suggest you do the same.

    And many people don't ask at all how you spec a class. I have never asked someone how they specced, nor have I cared. I only care about what role they are going to perform. If they fit that, I take them. I may ask them to go ranged, as several fights are really really difficult in melee as DPS, but Trion has already saw that issue and is working to correct it.
    You are missing the point.. There is only 1 way to play.. Zerg content.. Tank and spank! have you raided or done T1/T2s? I dont think you have from the way you talk... The devs made it so you have to mini-max the content or sit through wipe after wipe... No one really cared about stats or gear or roles until T1/T2s and above... Then the game changes....

  7. #7
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    Welcome to endgame of pretty much every PVE MMO that's ever come out.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.

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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashthra View Post
    Welcome to endgame of pretty much every PVE MMO that's ever come out.

    Sorry to burst your bubble.
    Ahhh no.. I started playing MMORPGs with EQ and Asherons call... It was more about comunity back then and less about number crunching.. So you had those people but it wasnt as bad.. No one did with with 5mans... And raids where more about being apart of something bigger and teamwork and less about zerging content...

  9. #9
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    I agree with a lot of whats said but I think the earlier MMO days, people didn't know everything about everything.

    Nowadays, there are far more resources for the players to know what is good, what is not. Take World of Warcraft for example, most of the debates and bantering isn't even about whats on live, it's whats on or off the PTR.

    People's tolerance of time has shrunken so much since I first started playing MMOs. No more I need to travel 3 zones away, with loading screens between each one. At that point I didn't know or care that the Wizard was doing 200 dps more than the mage. All I knew was they were both doing damage, the wizard could port me after and the mage could drop mod rods.

    In the grand scheme of things, people want their end game to be the same. They want to min/max their way through because its the most efficient way to get through content and the rewards they hold.

  10. #10
    Shield of Telara HighFive's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Amenity View Post
    In the grand scheme of things, people want their end game to be the same. They want to min/max their way through because its the most efficient way to get through content and the rewards they hold.
    I'm not sure what's wrong with this mentality.

    Are people arguing that they want to to be less efficient or they want the content nerfed so that every possible combination of classes and souls can complete it?

    I'm not hardcore, but I do raid a couple times a week. I watch my parser and try to adjust my specs to improve either personal dps or group dps via buffs/debuffs. I don't expect my guild to take me along if they have better options.
    Sticky some #$%#^$# guides so that people stop asking the same question for the 100th time or posting information that is clearly wrong.
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  11. #11
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    Sorry, wrong. I have done T1 and T2 content. And if you think you can zerg them without strategy, you are very mistaken. And for the record, the group I typically run with is me as a Cleric healer, a Riftstalker tank, a chloro as backup heals (doesnt always heal), another rogue for DPS, and a 5th slot that varies between another mage or cleric usually.

    Oh and for the record, I spend all my plaque points and only roll need on tank gear for my cleric, as that is my primary role I intend to play. Since we have a riftstalker that prefers to tank, I usually heal though. I only take the healer gear if no one else needs it, usually the 5th spot. So no, we don't min/max. We dont ask what spec people play, and we do just fine.

    Strategy will always be better way to play. If you dont get that point, then not sure anyone can help you. And as I said, if people want to play as min/maxers dont group with them if you dont like it. Their playstyle is every bit as valid as yours.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manakar View Post
    Ahh wrong.. Content shouldnt be about number crunching.. And more about tactis/strartegy and the players skills... Try harder next time.. As it is now people want to ZERG content.. There is nothing difficut or challenging about it... Its just a number crunch... We have the stats so we can now zerg the content without worry...
    It's an MMO. At the end of the day, sooner or later it's going to come down to numbers. If you want a style of game that is more about "tactics/strategy", play an fps. No really. That's just the way it is. It's not like content now is tuned to be easy and people want to make it trivial. Expert dungeons are tuned to be challenging and if your build is mediocre, you're not going to get far. Rift is full of mechanics and encounters that amount to "If you can't do <x> amount of damage in <y> amount of time, you cannot succeed." Facts are facts guy. There's no getting around them.

  13. #13
    Shield of Telara TheGreatGoogly's Avatar
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    Everything is about scripting. Scripted bosses are fun and interesting compared to rare spawns (which had PH) camps in open world dungeons for the first couple times but they get old and stale quickly.

    Part of what made EQ1 exciting was seeing that rare spawn pop. but everytime i go into a dungeon in rift i know exactly what to expect and when to expect it. Gets boring.
    Last edited by TheGreatGoogly; 04-09-2011 at 04:03 PM.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGoogly View Post
    Everything is about scripting. Scripted bosses are fun and interesting compared to rare spawns (which had PH) camps in open world dungeons for the first couple times but they get old and stale quickly.

    Part of what made EQ1 exciting was seeing that rare spawn pop. but everytime i go into a dungeon in rift i know exactly what to expect and when to expect it. Gets boring.
    The average MMO gamer isn't interested in waiting on rare spawns to pop, especially if the game is set up so that those rare spawns drop some of the best gear in the game. It tends to turn into hours of drudgery exchanged for minutes of entertainment. I'd rather have a predictable boss to fight than nothing to fight.

  15. #15
    Rift Chaser Song's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manakar View Post
    You are missing the point.. There is only 1 way to play.. Zerg content.. Tank and spank! have you raided or done T1/T2s? I dont think you have from the way you talk... The devs made it so you have to mini-max the content or sit through wipe after wipe... No one really cared about stats or gear or roles until T1/T2s and above... Then the game changes....
    We don't min/max at all our group composition is usually random guildies up for a crack.

    Someone tanks someone heals 3 people do damage.

    We use the age old strat of getting bosses hp to zero and we've cleared all T1/T2 and currently raiding.

    All a mindset. Take the tin hat off.

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