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Thread: KB Expert: Risk vs Reward is just broken. Period.

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default KB Expert: Risk vs Reward is just broken. Period.

    This is gonna be short:

    1) You need the most specific group makeup of any T1-x - you need a chloro instead of a bard for Manticores for dispells/single target, you need a tank with Way of the Mountain spec, you need a cleric healer that is not full Sentinel because those heals take to long for Konstantin etc etc

    2) It has 3 of the 5 hardest bosses in all of the T1 experts and rewards THE FEWEST plaques

    3) The FEWEST epic drops of any T1

    4) It is the least completeted by PuGs of any T1-x on my server. We had it 3 f-ing times as our daily last week and I completed it once - and that was with a perfect group makeup and all of us T2-x geared.

    This zone is BROKEN. It has the worst rewards of any T1 - is the hardest of any T1 - is the least puggable (ROTF is now easier with higher completion) of any T1 - and takes just as long if not longer than any of the others.

    Trion MAKE IT A T2 or MAKE IT A T1. Until then I won't ever run it again ... which isn't saying much since finding a group for it on our server as it is even when its the daily is now nearly impossible. NO ONE WILL GO IN IT.

    You're better off running IT-x and FC-x when KB-x is the daily. You'll complete both dungeons - get triple the drops - and the same amount of badges. Or if you CAN run KB-x easily you should just be ignoring it and running AP-x and RD-x which are easier.

  2. #2
    Sword of Telara GoldenArrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclip View Post
    This is gonna be short:

    1) You need the most specific group makeup of any T1-x - you need a chloro instead of a bard for Manticores for dispells/single target, you need a tank with Way of the Mountain spec, you need a cleric healer that is not full Sentinel because those heals take to long for Konstantin etc etc

    2) It has 3 of the 5 hardest bosses in all of the T1 experts and rewards THE FEWEST plaques

    3) The FEWEST epic drops of any T1

    4) It is the least completeted by PuGs of any T1-x on my server. We had it 3 f-ing times as our daily last week and I completed it once - and that was with a perfect group makeup and all of us T2-x geared.

    This zone is BROKEN. It has the worst rewards of any T1 - is the hardest of any T1 - is the least puggable (ROTF is now easier with higher completion) of any T1 - and takes just as long if not longer than any of the others.

    Trion MAKE IT A T2 or MAKE IT A T1. Until then I won't ever run it again ... which isn't saying much since finding a group for it on our server as it is even when its the daily is now nearly impossible. NO ONE WILL GO IN IT.

    You're better off running IT-x and FC-x when KB-x is the daily. You'll complete both dungeons - get triple the drops - and the same amount of badges. Or if you CAN run KB-x easily you should just be ignoring it and running AP-x and RD-x which are easier.
    Sounds like someone got butthurt by Konstantin :>

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Sunfire's Avatar
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    You know I ignored a lot of these threads and blew them off as people that hadn't spent enough time learning zone.

    BUT I agree with the OP - the Risk vs Reward in KB-x is terrible. I play on a server with a small Expert communiy so I know just about everyone running them. I played all day yesterday when it was the daily and I can name 4 groups out of about 20 that completed it - and one of those took 4 hours. It's the only T1-x I can't tank (I'm a cleric) even though I've tanked T2-xs and have 130 toughness and >10k armor (my group was 1 of the 4 that finished but we're all high T1/low T2 geared). It's never gonna be worth it for 5 plaques and its really not even worth it for 15... and does the 1st boss always drop that stupid blue warrior shield that no one can ever use ... I mean if that shield is an upgrade for you, you would never be in KB-x.

  4. #4
    Telaran
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    Hmm?

    Cleric/bard, random tank, into the treetrunk to the left where you don't get KB'ed all around. Out-heal the dot's and such with the bard, aoe cure with the cleric if needed. I honestly find DSM, CC and AP much more demanding in group configuration than KB, which like all T1 can be done with 1 healer + splash.
    There's no need for KB immunity if you use the right spot.

    Kontantin hardly requires a KB immune tank, it just plain trivializes it. It does however require a tank who can navigate and avoid to stand on sparkles. Faik, clerics have 4 roles like the rest of us. There should be room for two different healing roles, one that's mobile and one that's not.

    What other boss in that zone is hard? 1st, 2nd and 4th could just spawn as corpses to be looted. You're not eating the AoE's of stacked up adds on 4th, are you?

    Overall though, there's a bit much trash in the zone, but it's quite fast for the 5 plaques, way faster than IT/Fae, but not really in FC/LH speed.

  5. #5
    Sword of Telara GoldenArrow's Avatar
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    I agree about the trash. It's bit too much.
    Although after completing DSM it doesn't feel so bad

  6. #6
    Rift Chaser StrikeQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GoldenArrow View Post
    I agree about the trash. It's bit too much.
    Although after completing DSM it doesn't feel so bad
    Did E KB last night first time as Guild Only. We had 1 wipe on Manticores, and 1 death on Konstantin. Was our smoothest "first" time out of any of the T1's

    Granted I have a WotM spec, didn't use it on the Manticores though. Didn't even bother to get near the tree trunk. Did use support for them however.
    Si Vis Pacem Para Bellum

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    KB is frankly harder than some T2s. I'd put it above AP at a minimum.

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    Shield of Telara idefiler6's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclip View Post
    This is gonna be short:

    1) You need the most specific group makeup of any T1-x - you need a chloro instead of a bard for Manticores for dispells/single target, you need a tank with Way of the Mountain spec, you need a cleric healer that is not full Sentinel because those heals take to long for Konstantin etc etc
    You definitely do not need a paradouch spec tank, just do the fight correctly. Konstantin is easy.

    2) It has 3 of the 5 hardest bosses in all of the T1 experts and rewards THE FEWEST plaques
    Uh, which ones are hard?

    3) The FEWEST epic drops of any T1
    It has about the same number as any T1, and who cares? It's a T1...

    4) It is the least completeted by PuGs of any T1-x on my server. We had it 3 f-ing times as our daily last week and I completed it once - and that was with a perfect group makeup and all of us T2-x geared.
    Well if you know the fights and can quickly communicate how you want them done, you can do it with nearly any group. I'm figuring you're just bad and/or lazy.

    This zone is BROKEN. It has the worst rewards of any T1 - is the hardest of any T1 - is the least puggable (ROTF is now easier with higher completion) of any T1 - and takes just as long if not longer than any of the others.

    Trion MAKE IT A T2 or MAKE IT A T1. Until then I won't ever run it again ... which isn't saying much since finding a group for it on our server as it is even when its the daily is now nearly impossible. NO ONE WILL GO IN IT.



    You're better off running IT-x and FC-x when KB-x is the daily. You'll complete both dungeons - get triple the drops - and the same amount of badges. Or if you CAN run KB-x easily you should just be ignoring it and running AP-x and RD-x which are easier.
    Cry more.
    Last edited by idefiler6; 04-09-2011 at 09:21 AM.
    Kalistrasz
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    Ascendant Dinadass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flaviusx View Post
    KB is frankly harder than some T2s. I'd put it above AP at a minimum.
    KB is probably the hardest T1 and AP is one of the easier T2 zones (DD is without a doubt the easiest now with the changes to Scarn), but there is still quite a jump in mechanics, healing/damage requirements, and role switching.

    <Ascendant> 13/13 Seastone Defiant

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara Flaviusx's Avatar
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    Haven't hit the nerfed DD yet, can't comment on that, but my observation is that AP is more forgiving of group comp than KB is. AP may be "harder" in a purely mechanical and mathematical sense, but it's less restrictive so far as comp goes.

  11. #11
    Telaran
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    Nice to know it's not just us. Ran KB earlier today as the daily. It was the first expert I've ever completed, and definitely counts as the hardest 5-man I've ever run in any game. Two of the other group members were also new to experts, whilst the other two had T2 experience.

    It took us over 4 hours and god knows how many wipes. Most of the bosses were challenging but fun. For example Konstantin was just a matter of learning how to look out for and avoid the spikes, and not worrying too much about anything else.

    But manticores was just ridiculous and cost us over a dozen wipes. We didn't have a chloro, so eventually ended up completing it with the tank respecced for way of the mountain, and 2 clerics + a bard all co-operating to dispel and heal the enormous amount of damage flying around. We got through it - but I'd imagine the vast majority of players would have given up long before they came up with that sort of "solution". In our case, it was only the calmness and reassurances of our more experienced group members that allowed us to persist.

    We tried all sorts of strategies - but the tank rejected the "hole in the tree" strategy - partly because no one could answer "what happens when a fire patch appears in the hole"?

  12. #12
    Telaran
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    AP is pretty silly without 2 clerics, 2 chloros or any combination of the two due to the mechanics of the third boss. KB needs 1 healer, 1 tank and preferably someone to splash heal.

    As for the fire patch, you just out-heal it. It causes less damage than the other they do.

  13. #13
    Rift Chaser
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eclip View Post
    This is gonna be short:

    1) You need the most specific group makeup of any T1-x - you need a chloro instead of a bard for Manticores for dispells/single target, you need a tank with Way of the Mountain spec, you need a cleric healer that is not full Sentinel because those heals take to long for Konstantin etc etc

    2) It has 3 of the 5 hardest bosses in all of the T1 experts and rewards THE FEWEST plaques

    3) The FEWEST epic drops of any T1

    4) It is the least completeted by PuGs of any T1-x on my server. We had it 3 f-ing times as our daily last week and I completed it once - and that was with a perfect group makeup and all of us T2-x geared.

    This zone is BROKEN. It has the worst rewards of any T1 - is the hardest of any T1 - is the least puggable (ROTF is now easier with higher completion) of any T1 - and takes just as long if not longer than any of the others.

    Trion MAKE IT A T2 or MAKE IT A T1. Until then I won't ever run it again ... which isn't saying much since finding a group for it on our server as it is even when its the daily is now nearly impossible. NO ONE WILL GO IN IT.

    You're better off running IT-x and FC-x when KB-x is the daily. You'll complete both dungeons - get triple the drops - and the same amount of badges. Or if you CAN run KB-x easily you should just be ignoring it and running AP-x and RD-x which are easier.
    1. I've ran it several times with none of the above. Not really sure why you think any of these are necessary, but my guess is you're several things wrong.

    2. See 1. Nothing about KB is hard.

    3. That I might have given you, but they added about 100 drops yesterday so now who knows?

    4. Maybe your server is just bad? Its generally acknowledged to be one of the easiest T1's here and was in fact the first one I ever ran. (healing in greens and lvl 38-48 blues)

    Plus that which will not be named means the trash isn't actually so bad compared to some other T1's.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cathartic View Post

    We tried all sorts of strategies - but the tank rejected the "hole in the tree" strategy - partly because no one could answer "what happens when a fire patch appears in the hole"?

    Hole in the tree works. People just have to keep running back in and not sit there and dps after getting knocked out.. which causes charges and a general cluster$%$%
    Last edited by Lucasa; 04-09-2011 at 10:25 AM.

  15. #15
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucasa View Post
    1. I've ran it several times with none of the above. Not really sure why you think any of these are necessary, but my guess is you're several things wrong.

    2. See 1. Nothing about KB is hard.

    3. That I might have given you, but they added about 100 drops yesterday so now who knows?

    4. Maybe your server is just bad? Its generally acknowledged to be one of the easiest T1's here and was in fact the first one I ever ran. (healing in greens and lvl 38-48 blues)

    Plus that which will not be named means the trash isn't actually so bad compared to some other T1's.
    I know who you are. No - I'm sure it isn't that hard for someone who has been running experts for nearly a month and is full T2 epics.

    As for the new items - I've run it once since the patch and the only new item we saw was a blue totem drop... cause lots of people use totems.

    Look if it's intended to be really hard that's fine - I just want the rewards to match the time/effort. It should be at least 8 plaques (why do 2 x Manticores drop 1 plaque anyway) and have higher level drops.

    If its intended to be a quick, 5-plaque low/no epic drop T1-x then cut out trash so people don't need to wall-cut, reduce the death damage from Mondrach and the charge damage (by 50%) from Flesh, make the Phantasm spawned adds wait 3-5s after spawn before aggroing or aoeing, and reduce the spike pop rate and increase the snare during Fury on Konstantin.

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