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Thread: Absolute Minimum Tougness Thread(HEALERS POST NAO)

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default Absolute Minimum Tougness Thread(HEALERS POST NAO)

    Hey all. Im a fresh 50 with 0 toughness(im sure Im like # 2000 in the list of people who have started out a thread like that), and my next step as far as progression is to make some runs in the Expert Tier 1 dungeons. I just have one question though. I understand how toughness works, the cap(50 toughness), and I know the gear that has it. I dont need an explanation or a wall of text for guidance(the previous threads have answered almost all of my questions except this last one.).

    My question is(as a healer, or experienced t1 runner in general) what is the absolute minimum toughness that you would allow your tank to have in your T1 group. Im just looking for some number posts here, personal opinions are welcome. A simple post of ......"45 toughness and no lower".......... will do. A simple explanation of why you chose your number would be of some help, but a number is just fine.

    I am trying to determine if i should wait until I have the toughness needed, or go as DPS and hope for some loot to come my way(and ofcourse defer to the tank who runs me)



    Thanks for your time!

    Macros
    Last edited by MacrosTheBlack; 03-28-2011 at 05:10 AM.

  2. #2
    Soulwalker
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    Preferably 50.
    Last edited by Pauly; 03-28-2011 at 05:27 AM.

  3. #3
    Soulwalker Enkal's Avatar
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    Not that I'm a healer but a rogue tank and I dinged 50 yesterday, had the blue crafted chest with +25 toughness crafted and slapped a +10 toughness rune on it.

    Had 7,5k health, 35 toughness and tanked Kings Breach quite ok, didnt die from lack of toughness I'd say. Trash is the worst problem imho. Bosses are easy. We ran with a cleric+chloro and for the twin manticores we actually used 2 tanks, 3 healers... long fight lol

  4. #4
    Shield of Telara Emek's Avatar
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    Tbh, if you don't have 50 toughness, you probably don't have the other stats either. Which means anything lower than that and it just wont work. Some bosses hit pretty hard and the toughness is quite necessary. Get your crafted items and that should put you at 30-45 toughness

  5. #5
    Soulwalker
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    Without 50 toughness, you'll take very spiky damage, which can be a huge problem for healers. Clearing an instance with a tank with less than 50 toughness is doable, its just very frustrating for healers. To answer your question, if tanks are readily available I don't take anyone with under 50 toughness, but if its off hours or something I'll accept 40 minimum.

  6. #6
    Telaran
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    As Enkal mentioned, if you're not hitting around 45-50 toughness you should probably take a look at your other stats as well. When I started T1 runs with my guild I was at 49 toughness from crafted items + AP/CC drops and enchants, so the gear is out there.

  7. #7
    Ascendant Puzzlebox's Avatar
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    Did the grind to get from 0 toughness to 115 recently.

    Do yourself a favor and do Chamer's Caldera first. Quest reward drops a chest with toughness on it. Slap a +10 toughness rune on that. There is a quest reward that drops green boots with toughness, I forget where it is though so maybe someone else can post and help you out with that. In total you could have 36 toughness before you even step into an Expert dungeon. 41 if you have a friend with the +15 toughness rune or shell out a few plat to get it.

    I did KB and FC and IT with 26 toughness. But that wasn't because I'm an awesome tank. I just had a really geared cleric friend that was playing some insane whack-a-mole with my HP bar. It strains the healer a hell of alot. For example, with 26 toughness, it didn't matter if my cleric ignored any semblance of mana efficiency and spam healed me, he couldn't keep up when I had Queen Valharra and two spider adds. It just didn't work. Now, that might not be completely toughness related, rather, it might be a correlation between attaining toughness and toughness being tied to gear with better stats. But I still find that it comes hand in hand.

    I didn't feel comfortable until after 50, personally. Certain bosses and dungeons I still didn't feel comfortable until after 80.

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Artus's Avatar
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    over 9000!
    基地はすべて我々のものだ。

  9. #9
    Ascendant nemecis's Avatar
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    you're playing a Tank. get used to being required to have the best gear in the group.

    As such, "minimum requirements" shouldn't be in your vocabulary.

    It's generally agreed that 50 is the goal for T1. Is it possible with less? Sure, as many can attest to, but you should be putting in the work to reach 50 (and the other required benchmark stats) before venturing into T1s.

    These instances can be a royal pain, especially in new groups, especially with under-geared players (tank, dps or heals). Don't sell yourself short by shooting for the minimum, take some pride in tanking and get 45-50, it's not that hard, and your healers will be thankful.
    Last edited by nemecis; 03-28-2011 at 07:09 AM.

  10. #10
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by nemecis View Post
    you're playing a Tank. get used to being required to have the best gear in the group.

    As such, "minimum requirements" shouldn't be in your vocabulary.

    It's generally agreed that 50 is the goal for T1. Is it possible with less? Sure, as many can attest to, but you should be putting in the work to reach 50 (and the other required benchmark stats) before venturing into T1s.

    These instances can be a royal pain, especially in new groups, especially with under-geared players (tank, dps or heals). Don't sell yourself short by shooting for the minimum, take some pride in tanking and get 45-50, it's not that hard, and your healers will be thankful.
    To be honest, if you have a healer who's adequately geared for T1, then it is by no means necessary to have any toughness at all. I've healed every single T1 with a tank who had less than 50 toughness without too much trouble, so my answer to your question would be zero, at least for the easier ones like IT and KB. Like above posters have said, FC's last boss is a ***** to heal even on well-geared tanks, so that one I would actually want above 50 for.

    Having said that, the healer's job will be harder and you will have trouble keeping aggro on everything because you're probably undergeared in the other departments as well. The entire instance will run significantly smoother if you do get that 50 toughness before you start with experts, and nemecis is right; get used to needing the best gear out of anyone in the group.
    Last edited by Runes; 03-28-2011 at 07:26 AM.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple
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    We all started at 0, you can too.

  12. #12
    Rift Disciple
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    Cleric healer with 900+ spellpower can carry a tank with 30ish toughness okay T1's, it will be close. Also get better armor, and hp not just toughness.

    50+ for T1's, no less then 100 for ROTF.

  13. #13
    Rift Disciple
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobos GoreFang View Post
    Cleric healer with 900+ spellpower can carry a tank with 30ish toughness okay T1's, it will be close. Also get better armor, and hp not just toughness.

    50+ for T1's, no less then 100 for ROTF.
    Its a bit more complex than that. A bard/chloro will basically chop a % of the incomming damage (with their healing) which smooths things out a little. Also, any cleric healer can keep pretty much anyone alive for a very short period of time (25 seconds or so) so dps output can mitigate an under geared tank. Along with knowning the boss mechanics. For example, having a purger on the 3 kings fight makes healing a tank with no toughness easy as hell. Likewise on fights where debuffs need to be cleared having a secondary dispeller helps since somtimes a gdc is a life or death thing.

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    For T1 their is no minimum set in stone. It all depends on your party (yes, I evaded the question!)

    You can have 300 toughness and still wipe to T1 mobs / bosses because of other party members not doing their jobs.

    On the flip side you can have 0 toughness and if the rest of your party is good enough, you can tank the instance (of course they may not like you very much afterward...)

    I would suggest at least 30 toughness to start tanking though. Like others have said: 30 toughness is not that difficult to get. Make sure you grab a +toughness rune for your chest, closes the gap so you can feel comfortable tanking. CC reward and +10 Tough rune = 35 Toughness.

    Welcome to T1 Experts!

  15. #15
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Runes View Post
    To be honest, if you have a healer who's adequately geared for T1, then it is by no means necessary to have any toughness at all. I've healed every single T1 with a tank who had less than 50 toughness without too much trouble, so my answer to your question would be zero, at least for the easier ones like IT and KB. Like above posters have said, FC's last boss is a ***** to heal even on well-geared tanks, so that one I would actually want above 50 for.
    Not necessary? Uh, yes it is. I'm adequately geared for T1... heck, I'm geared to heal T2. But I had a run in LH with a tank that had 25 toughness. She was taking so much damage, than she died 4 times on the second trash pack! Once we were past that it did get better, but it was still one crazy rollercoaster, and we died more than a few times because of huge spike damage she took. Of course she blamed me for not healing enough ("I've done this before just fine!"), but there was just no way I could keep up the kind of throughput needed all the time. Just physically and mathematically and scientifically and practically impossible.

    Consider this. My Healing Grace heals for about 700 in 2 seconds. Healing Invocation 1800-2000 in 3 seconds. Healing Flame 500 in 1.5 seconds. A mob's ability might HIT for 2000, and therefore in T1 crit for 4000. With 50 toughness you'd only take 2000 damage, while with 25 toughness that's 3000 damage. You're taking an extra 1000 damage you should not be taking, and that's something that without cooldowns or a lucky crit takes me over two seconds to heal up (not to mention the non-crit portion on top). And not only that, the mob might do just as much damage on the next swing! It's also very nasty with AoE packs.

    In practise when healing her, a lot of the time I couldn't cast Healing Invocation. Why? Well, because by the time the cast would finish (outside of Serendipity or Healer's Haste) she'd already be dead. So I had to use HG or HF, which are by far less HP per second healed, leading to insufficient HPS to keep her up. In addition, I often couldn't refresh my two Warden hots because that too would've resulted in her dying.

    It certainly didn't help that group damage was a bit low, so cooldowns didn't help that much either, they just can't be active all the time. In the end, after a two-hours or more of wipefest we stopped at Emberlord after having wiped at least ten times on him alone. I'd say it was one of my worst and stressful healing experiences in any game, ever, especially considering that the previous day I had healed IT and LH with very few problems.
    Last edited by Thevryn; 03-28-2011 at 03:06 PM.

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