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Thread: @ Rift about end game stuff

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    Soulwalker
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    Default @ Rift about end game stuff

    what are your plans for end game, as of now its really easy and only a handfull of stuff to do. what will you do to stop players from stopping playing rift and going back to wow. because as it stand now leveling is great fun but one at lvl 50 its really boring and alot of people are finding it hards to hold on???? this game has a good protantial to be very good if it can sort its end game raids out, i just hope it dont come down to a one hit wonder like meny other mmo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by doctan View Post
    what are your plans for end game, as of now its really easy and only a handfull of stuff to do. what will you do to stop players from stopping playing rift and going back to wow. because as it stand now leveling is great fun but one at lvl 50 its really boring and alot of people are finding it hards to hold on???? this game has a good protantial to be very good if it can sort its end game raids out, i just hope it dont come down to a one hit wonder like meny other mmo.
    Its not really easy. Its a moderate challenge for about 5 guilds. For everyone else its very tough. My guild was just commenting today about how tough the expert dungeons are and that was only Tier 1. You cannot base 1.) an opinion on something you probably haven't even done yourself and 2.) something 1% of the population will find only moderately challenging. Just cause the top guilds in the game have cleared content (and btw thats just two guilds) by banging head against encounter repeatedly until they finally won doesn't mean its not hard especially for the average person. This is something WoW realizes and does themselves when they design raids and expert dungeons. Rift is no different. Actually Rift experts are harder, especially the T2 experts.

    The only thing 50's are finding annoying right now is sorta their won fault. There aren't enough other 50's to run content with them. This is a problem in my guild, as they only just today got enough 50's for one 5 man group. Its kinda boring if you have to wait for everyone else to catch up, but that is what happens when you rush to 50. When everyone is 50 there is going to be plenty to do. Not to mention we still have 2 more raid rifts to come, and 2 more 20 man raids that will be out within weeks. I don't think Trion plans to just sit on their hands and wait till everyone has farmed everything to death and then saying "wait, wait! We are working on another raid..honest!".
    Last edited by Khelendross; 03-16-2011 at 09:01 AM.

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    Soulwalker
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    As a new player of Rift and an ex-endgame WoW player who has been waiting for the real "wow-killer" to come along and played a lot of offerings so far (namely AoC & Aion) but always ended up back on WoW i'd like to add my 2 cents.

    In Rift, the end boss of the only "proper raid instance" in the games entry level content has been downed 2 days after release by a guild which has a mix of players from top 30~ guilds in WoW and other games. This is the first time these players have played together as a unit and while they are obviously exceptional players with plenty of MMO experience, if this is as difficult as it gets for the next couple of months then people WILL leave. On the other hand the WoW guild Paragon full of bleeding edge players who have worked together to get world first kills for over a year didn't defeat the most challenging raid content WoW has to offer in it's latest expansions entry level content until 24 Jan, that's a whopping 48 days before everything was clear as opposed to Rifts... 2. Yeah.

    Correct me if i'm wrong but there is no "Heroic" level of raid difficulty for these 20 man raids so as soon as the rest of the playerbase catch up what then? I am pleased to hear there is going to be new raids in 30-60 days but seriously they should be hard enough to keep even bleeding edge guilds entertained. Otherwise, prepare to find every PvE'r back in Azeroth, again, in a month or so.
    Last edited by Valiana; 03-17-2011 at 06:28 AM.

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    Soulwalker Indygo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiana View Post
    As a new player of Rift and an ex-endgame WoW player who has been waiting for the real "wow-killer" to come along and played a lot of offerings so far (namely AoC & Aion) but always ended up back on WoW i'd like to add my 2 cents.

    In Rift, the end boss of the only "proper raid instance" in the games entry level content has been downed 2 days after release by a guild which has a mix of players from top 30~ guilds in WoW and other games. This is the first time these players have played together as a unit and while they are obviously exceptional players with plenty of MMO experience, if this is as difficult as it gets for the next couple of months then people WILL leave. On the other hand the WoW guild Paragon full of bleeding edge players who have worked together to get world first kills for over a year didn't defeat the most challenging raid content WoW has to offer in it's latest expansions entry level content until 24 Jan, that's a whopping 48 days before everything was clear as opposed to Rifts... 2. Yeah.

    Correct me if i'm wrong but there is no "Heroic" level of raid difficulty for these 20 man raids so as soon as the rest of the playerbase catch up what then? I am pleased to hear there is going to be new raids in 30-60 days but seriously they should be hard enough to keep even bleeding edge guilds entertained. Otherwise, prepare to find every PvE'r back in Azeroth, again, in a month or so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by doctan View Post
    what are your plans for end game, as of now its really easy and only a handfull of stuff to do. what will you do to stop players from stopping playing rift and going back to wow. because as it stand now leveling is great fun but one at lvl 50 its really boring and alot of people are finding it hards to hold on???? this game has a good protantial to be very good if it can sort its end game raids out, i just hope it dont come down to a one hit wonder like meny other mmo.
    I don't plan to go back to WoW... when I stop playing Rift, I will spend more time in LotRO and EVE Online.

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    Paragon cleared all non-heroic raid content in 6 days of cata's release. And they killed all non-heroic bosses other than nefarion in 2 days.

    Nefarian Dec 13, 2010 00:57
    Al'Akir Dec 9, 2010 20:35
    Cho'gall Dec 9, 2010 18:03
    Ascendant Council Dec 9, 2010 17:16
    Chimaeron Dec 8, 2010 21:24
    Valiona and Theralion Dec 8, 2010 04:56
    Halfus Wyrmbreaker Dec 8, 2010 03:46
    Maloriak Dec 8, 2010 02:31
    Atramedes Dec 8, 2010 01:53
    Magmaw Dec 7, 2010 23:59
    Omnotron Defense System Dec 7, 2010 23:32
    Conclave of Wind Dec 7, 2010 22:48

    I mean hell, they killed 3 of the raid bosses the day Cata released.

    Most of the other top 100 guilds in wow were pretty damned close to that same time frame.

    Lets compare apples to apples guys. Rift has 5 20 man raid bosses right now. Only 2 guilds have cleared it all. Most of the guilds that have cleared 4/5 of the bosses have had experience with the raids already on the alpha server.

    Another slightly harder raid will be coming out soon with another 5ish bosses. And a large raid zone soon after that.

    If they wanted to the could easily create a "heroic" version of the raids with higher damage, additional crazy hard mechanics and walk away.

    Right now the amount of content is fine. It will take a few weeks to gear up a 20 man raid with raid gear to tackle the next zone. A few more weeks of gearing up from that zone. And hopefully by then the larger tier 2 zone will be in place.

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    Soulwalker
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    Also note that every raid boss has subsequently been buffed, some of them significantly.

    Both Trion and Blizzard released patch notes today, Trion buffed Prince Hylas significantly (no more MS during the deer phase), while Blizzard nerfed the twin dragons, Omnitron and Maloriak. Halfus was nerfed a couple weeks ago, Al'akir as well.

    And I'm not sure where you got 2 days from, Greenscale was killed on March 12, release was March 1, but Most people were playing in the head start on the 24th. That's 16 days. And he was promptly buffed.

    I really have no concerns with the difficulty level of this game right now. They need to release more raid content, but they've announced that they're doing just that.

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    Prophet of Telara Albane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sauceage View Post
    Paragon cleared all non-heroic raid content in 6 days of cata's release. And they killed all non-heroic bosses other than nefarion in 2 days.
    If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then talk about WoW at release.

    It took guilds 5 months to kill Ragnaros, not 2 weeks.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albane View Post
    If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then talk about WoW at release.

    It took guilds 5 months to kill Ragnaros, not 2 weeks.
    These "Top End" raid guilds make up less than 1% of their player base. I honestly think Trion has more concerns than catering to people that play their game 24/7. Unless that 1% decided that they all wanted to pay 10k a month to play the game, relax and take it in stride.

    Believe it or not, catering your content schedule to appease 1% of your player base is a waste of resources.

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    Prophet of Telara Albane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    These "Top End" raid guilds make up less than 1% of their player base. I honestly think Trion has more concerns than catering to people that play their game 24/7. Unless that 1% decided that they all wanted to pay 10k a month to play the game, relax and take it in stride.

    Believe it or not, catering your content schedule to appease 1% of your player base is a waste of resources.
    I totally agree. Game Development is a business before everything else, and no business would ever dedicate 90% of it's resources to making 1% of it's customers happy.

  11. #11
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Albane View Post
    If you want to compare Apples to Apples, then talk about WoW at release.

    It took guilds 5 months to kill Ragnaros, not 2 weeks.
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that when WoW was released Molten Core wasn't released which means you can't count from release. I believe they introduced Upper Blackrock Spire as a 15m raid first and then Molten Core.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Landvia View Post
    These "Top End" raid guilds make up less than 1% of their player base. I honestly think Trion has more concerns than catering to people that play their game 24/7. Unless that 1% decided that they all wanted to pay 10k a month to play the game, relax and take it in stride.

    Believe it or not, catering your content schedule to appease 1% of your player base is a waste of resources.
    Believe it or not the reason WOW remains succesful where all the other MMO's that tried to challenge it effectively died within a month is because Blizzard know most of the people play the game for the tried and tested PVE gear ladder. Thus they at least try to keep it challenging or at least offer increased difficulty modes with improved loot.

    Yes, you're probably right that the oh so uber people make up 1% of the games population but there are plenty of people who aren't in that percentage that still want difficult content to look forward to and keep them entertained. Plus, it's the people actually doing the raids right now that people are looking to, to review the endgame and decide for themselves whether Rift is worth giving up their current mmo for. If you want an mmo to be succesful, it's actually in their benefit to cater for hardcore players as these are the ones likely to keep long term subs and tell all their friends about it (then the millions of casuals will follow, much like what happened with WoW over the years).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiana View Post
    Yes, you're probably right that the oh so uber people make up 1% of the games population but there are plenty of people who aren't in that percentage that still want difficult content to look forward to and keep them entertained. Plus, it's the people actually doing the raids right now that people are looking to, to review the endgame and decide for themselves whether Rift is worth giving up their current mmo for. If you want an mmo to be succesful, it's actually in their benefit to cater for hardcore players as these are the ones likely to keep long term subs and tell all their friends about it (then the millions of casuals will follow, much like what happened with WoW over the years).
    And as such, the leader of addiction has said flat out the endgame content is both challenging and rewarding. And as long as Trion holds true to releasing the next raid zone and the large raid later the vast majority of players will have enough endgame content to last months. And they can easily add more challenging rift raids to the game to extend the endgame lifespan till the first expansion.

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    Another thing to note is that the World First Greenscale kill was done with shall we call it 'clever use of game mechanics' and Addiction only got the post buffed version of him down a few days ago - his Hp has been doubled and he can no longer be held in his air phase allowing for 'free' dps.

    As far as entry level content goes there is A LOT to do and very little of it is 'faceroll' some Five mans are pretty dam insane especially DM and DD (Skarn anyone?). Raiding is good fun with a mix of Raid rifts and GSB and for a lot of guilds it's going to take a few weeks to clear: Leteraus is a great starter boss forcing your group to co-ordinate properly, Infiltrator is a gear check/face melter, Oracle is easy once you have the tactic sorted and Hylas is brilliant fight. Can't personally speak for Greenscale as I haven't seen him yet.

    I'm not quite sure how people can complain about a lack of content when they themselves haven't done it yet.
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    Rift Disciple Evolving Squid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiana View Post
    Believe it or not the reason WOW remains succesful where all the other MMO's that tried to challenge it effectively died within a month is because Blizzard know most of the people play the game for the tried and tested PVE gear ladder. Thus they at least try to keep it challenging or at least offer increased difficulty modes with improved loot.

    Yes, you're probably right that the oh so uber people make up 1% of the games population but there are plenty of people who aren't in that percentage that still want difficult content to look forward to and keep them entertained. Plus, it's the people actually doing the raids right now that people are looking to, to review the endgame and decide for themselves whether Rift is worth giving up their current mmo for. If you want an mmo to be succesful, it's actually in their benefit to cater for hardcore players as these are the ones likely to keep long term subs and tell all their friends about it (then the millions of casuals will follow, much like what happened with WoW over the years).
    I never look to what the raid guilds are doing. IMO, raiding is the most absolutely boring way to play the game. I want the path to high level to be the fun part. Raiding is like a little bonus at the end to cap off an adventuring career... it's the last thing to do before retiring a character.

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