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Thread: A deep wish for future raid encounters!

  1. #1
    Telaran
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    Default A deep wish for future raid encounters!

    Hello Trion!

    I'm not sure how the raid encounters are at the very moment and what it will require.
    However, I do hope you're considering to make bosses that will require a certain level of magic resistance and give factions plans/patterns for resistance gear. Why I'm saying this is because I want to get the old epic feeling back. The feeling you get when you down a boss that you have been working so hard for and prepared. Farming resistance gear, nights of wipe tries and then it goes down. There's really no better feeling than that. Sorting our resistance gear should take a little time so it require some effort. Always nice to have a boss that you cannot get down for a week or two because you need to complete resistance gear. Don't get afraid of import encounters that requires some time from the players.

    Also I would like to have a kind of "attunement" system for the raids. I wish to see that the dungeons gets harder, more bosses, more demanding bosses gear-wise and so on. Would be great if you could do like world of warcraft during classic and the burning crusade. Let people COMPLETE the first Tier and THEN get unlocked for the next Tier of raids. This would give people something to look forward to and a highly motivator. Ofcourse some guilds could struggle to complete it all, but then it also means that the guild never were built for clearing it all. You can still hear people who only got to Twin Emperors in Ahn'Qiraj 40 and 1-2 bosses down in Naxxramas but STILL were satisfied! They had a great time eventho they didn't clear!

    I know you proably have concerns about people clearing etc.. but just because some people don't have the time or the capability to clear the raids within the first months, it shouldn't be a reason for them to quit. Because after more and more guilds kills the encounters, there will be movies and tactics laid out which would help out the less experienced players to hopefully clear some bosses.

    I also hope you are putting in some real mechanisms into the boss fights and makes them as unique and always remembered for their unique encounter style + difficulty. A game shouldn't be easy, because then it only suits 1 aspect of the gamers. And also try to make the epics abit rare. That will make people proud for when they get it.

    When it comes to gear from raids. Please implement Tier sets with set-bonuses. This will give the players another achievement. To collect all pieces! I like the fact that it seems like you have 7-8 pieces that can be purchased from a vendor in exchange of materials and a token.

    I also hope you will make the tokens as a class drop. For example Boss A drops 2x Warrior Tokens or 1x Rogue Token and 1x Cleric token 1 week. This will give people a motivation for running your instances repeatably!


    I know I might ask for abit much but atleast think about it. I'm a raider by hearth and I do know I would love to play a game with such mechanisms as I described!

    -Everdark

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    i dont mind thing beeing harder, but personally i would love to see system similar to wotlk, where you could do dungeons to get previous tier of equipment, so people like me can get enough gear to do raids. I missed alot of content in vanilla wow because i didnt have time to raid on a regular basis, so i never got the gear i needed.

    i know its not what you are looking for, but for me, i would like to be able to access content i want to see.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Assuming this ain't a troll... I'd recommend playing Wow that has many of the things mentioned.

  4. #4
    Soulwalker
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    Please oh please DO NOT replicate the facade called WOTLK. It was so horrible I thought I'd quit (if only I had another MMO option).

    TBC was great - no matter what tier your guild was in, you always had somewhere to progress to. In WOTLK you either did the latest tier or you were running the same boring 5man instances. If you didn't have the latest T1000 shinies you were out of the game period.

    It is true that the WOTLK system worked in cases where you had to replace active raid team members and removed the need to run recruits through previous tier to gear them up, but overall it robbed the feeling of true progress from almost everybody.

    And since the WOTLK system was designed to allow everybody - regardless of skill - to experience the content, it was tuned so badly that people with minimal ability to avoid stuff were utterly bored. Mana was no issue, threat was no issue, everybody was spamming their AOE buttons as fast as they could and could ignore most of the fight's mechanics with no repercussions.

    WOTLK was a disaster.

  5. #5
    Telaran
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    No, I'm not a troll. i'm just a guy who loves to raid and make raiding end-game special.

    Like you said, DID WoW have most of these things. But it all got removed. Have you ever seen a boss requireing resistance gear after tbc? Have you seen 7-8 pieces of tier-set with bonuses after tbc?
    Have you felt good for downing an end boss after tbc? Was it good to kill Lich King? I mean with your pug.

    I promise you, after next WoW expansion you will hear people talking more about the days in AQ40 and Naxx at 60 than Icecrown Citadel on level 80.

  6. #6
    Soulwalker
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    I promise you, after next WoW expansion you will hear people talking more about the days in AQ40 and Naxx at 60 than Icecrown Citadel on level 80.
    We already do.

    If I see someone with "Kingslayer" in my random group I'm automatically on my toes as someone who thinks clearing ICC (normal, otherwise he's have Light of Dawn title) is something special is probably going to be a disaster player. I know I'm generalizing here but its the truth in most cases unfortunately.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nesh View Post
    Please oh please DO NOT replicate the facade called WOTLK. It was so horrible I thought I'd quit (if only I had another MMO option).

    TBC was great - no matter what tier your guild was in, you always had somewhere to progress to. In WOTLK you either did the latest tier or you were running the same boring 5man instances. If you didn't have the latest T1000 shinies you were out of the game period.

    It is true that the WOTLK system worked in cases where you had to replace active raid team members and removed the need to run recruits through previous tier to gear them up, but overall it robbed the feeling of true progress from almost everybody.

    And since the WOTLK system was designed to allow everybody - regardless of skill - to experience the content, it was tuned so badly that people with minimal ability to avoid stuff were utterly bored. Mana was no issue, threat was no issue, everybody was spamming their AOE buttons as fast as they could and could ignore most of the fight's mechanics with no repercussions.

    WOTLK was a disaster.
    again im not looking for a easier game, but wotlk let you gather the gear to atleast try it, whenther the diffictuly of the content was is irrelevant, its how it makes it accessible for casuals and people that comes in later in the progression.

    Cataclysm uses the EXACT same system, but its much more difficult, atleast thats what they say on the forums.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    I recently tested the expert dungeons and I have some bad news for you LazerApe.
    They are hard, so if you can't accept harder content and more grind. Then you might as well stop wasting your time in Rift and find something more "meeting" where World of Warcraft is a good example.

    Some people are not happy with "lazy" players being rewarded just as much as the hardworking ones.
    Just imagine you and a friend are working at the same shop. Your friend works 2 hours a day while you work 8 hours a day. Your boss are trying to avoid differences, so he gives you same payment as your friend gets. Now the question. Why shouldn't you get more if you worked more and longer than him?

    You might say "you can't compare this with the game", but I'll deni. Some people are playing as much that it's almost a work for them and I believe that these players are the one who should get rewarded higher than the one's who's simply not playing it as much.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everdark View Post
    I recently tested the expert dungeons and I have some bad news for you LazerApe.
    They are hard, so if you can't accept harder content and more grind. Then you might as well stop wasting your time in Rift and find something more "meeting" where World of Warcraft is a good example.

    Some people are not happy with "lazy" players being rewarded just as much as the hardworking ones.
    Just imagine you and a friend are working at the same shop. Your friend works 2 hours a day while you work 8 hours a day. Your boss are trying to avoid differences, so he gives you same payment as your friend gets. Now the question. Why shouldn't you get more if you worked more and longer than him?

    You might say "you can't compare this with the game", but I'll deni. Some people are playing as much that it's almost a work for them and I believe that these players are the one who should get rewarded higher than the one's who's simply not playing it as much.
    just to be clear:

    * Im not asking trion to make the game harder/easier then it allready is.

    * Im asking them to give me an alternetive to get gear i need to experince high end content, by giving letting purchase previous tiers of gear by playing shorter session content ie expert dungeons.

    And yes hardcore players put more effort, hence they are hardcore not casual, should they be rewarded? yes, ofcourse, but please be reasonble, i.e dont care so much about others progression but rather your own. Hardcore players will allways have the best in slot items and see the latest content first, they also will have ahivements and titels that casuas dontl have. what more do you ask? do you really need a game to feel special/ a sense of accomplishment in such a way that you wont allow others to be given a chance? just because they cant put in as much time.

    But you have to understand that your analogy is fundamentaly flawed, and while yes hardcore player put more effort and should get rewarded (which they are in the system i propose, mayby not in the extent that they like, but like i said be reasnoble). A game like rift is not a job, its a service, i pay for it, asmuch as hardcore players do. casuals and hardcore player dont get PAID to play rift (i guess there might be hardcore players who do, but yol get the point), we are PAYING for it, it also dosnt contribute to soicity, its their to enhance our lifestyle. Thats why im asking for a progression system that isnt to rigid in its playstyle, it should cater to as many players of the playerbase as possible.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Everdark View Post
    I recently tested the expert dungeons and I have some bad news for you LazerApe.
    They are hard, so if you can't accept harder content and more grind. Then you might as well stop wasting your time in Rift and find something more "meeting" where World of Warcraft is a good example.

    Some people are not happy with "lazy" players being rewarded just as much as the hardworking ones.
    Just imagine you and a friend are working at the same shop. Your friend works 2 hours a day while you work 8 hours a day. Your boss are trying to avoid differences, so he gives you same payment as your friend gets. Now the question. Why shouldn't you get more if you worked more and longer than him?

    You might say "you can't compare this with the game", but I'll deni. Some people are playing as much that it's almost a work for them and I believe that these players are the one who should get rewarded higher than the one's who's simply not playing it as much.
    just to be clear:

    * Im not asking trion to make the game harder/easier then it allready is.

    * Im asking them to give me an alternetive to get gear i need to experince high end content, by giving letting purchase previous tiers of gear by playing shorter session content ie expert dungeons.

    And yes hardcore players put more effort, hence they are hardcore not casual, should they be rewarded? yes, ofcourse, but please be reasonble, i.e dont care so much about others progression but rather your own. Hardcore players will allways have the best in slot items and see the latest content first, they also will have ahivements and titels that casuas dontl have. what more do you ask? do you really need a game to feel special/ a sense of accomplishment in such a way that you wont allow others to be given a chance? just because they cant put in as much time.

    But you have to understand that your analogy is fundamentaly flawed, and while yes hardcore player put more effort and should get rewarded (which they are in the system i propose, mayby not in the extent that they like, but like i said be reasnoble). A game like rift is not a job, its a service, i pay for it, asmuch as hardcore players do. casuals and hardcore player dont get PAID to play rift (i guess there might be hardcore players who do, but yol get the point), we are PAYING for it, it also dosnt contribute to soicity, its their to enhance our lifestyle. Thats why im asking for a progression system that isnt to rigid in its playstyle, it should cater to as many players of the playerbase as possible.

    Im not a "lazy" player, but im not going to chnage my prioties in life, i love rift, but its just a game, im not going to let my education and more importan things in life get in the way, and it shouldnt.

  11. #11
    Sword of Telara Nebhatesyou's Avatar
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    Nothing says challenging raid mechanic like grinding for resistance gear!

    http://preacherontheplaza.files.word...igh-769156.jpg

    Open the door. Get on the floor.
    Everybody walk the dinosaur.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by LazerApe View Post
    just to be clear:
    * Im asking them to give me an alternetive to get gear i need to experince high end content, by giving letting purchase previous tiers of gear by playing shorter session content ie expert dungeons.

    And yes hardcore players put more effort, hence they are hardcore not casual, should they be rewarded? yes, ofcourse, but please be reasonble, i.e dont care so much about others progression but rather your own.
    You want an alternative way to get gear so you can experience high-end content - why? if you haven't conquered Tier1 (entry level raiding), why do you want to jump over it to Tier 3 (high-end content)?

    Lets see for example:
    The game has 3 raiding tiers in the current content:
    Tier 1: Entry level raiding tier, requires lvl50 instance gear to start and rewards Tier 1 level gear
    Tier 2: mid level raiding tier, requires some Tier1+lvl50 gear to start and rewards Tier 2 level gear
    Tier 3: high end raiding tier, requires some Tier 2 + Tier 1 gear to start, rewards Tier 3 level gear

    So a casual dude reaches lvl50, they grind a bit 5man instances to get the basic gear kit allowing them to start raiding. He joins a casual raiding guild progressing in Tier 1. He has a lot of new content ahead of him with the lure of T2 and T3 as objectives.

    In WOTLK, that dude would be REQUIRED to farm 5man content in order to get T3 level gear because nobody would look at him with T1 or T2 gear. That guy was practically robbed of the opportunity to experience 2 raiding tiers with all their interesting boss mechanics and now has only 1 raiding tier to experience.

    In TBC, people were raiding ALL available tiers. You had people progressing in Sunwell wiping on Muru, and at the same time you had 'newcomers' progressing in SSC/TK. These 'newcomers' had all the game has to offer available to them in their progress path.
    The same 'newcomers' in WOTLK had no other option other than reach level 80, farm 5man heroics till they got T10 and then go straight to ICC - they missed Ulduar which was by far the best raiding instance probably in the whole game (minus Kael&Vashj maybe).

    The excuse people asking for off-raid raid-level gear are providing is "I pay for the game so I want a chance to experience it all" - well, by getting end-game gear from 5mans/rep you actually LOSE the chance to experience all the game. you only get the chance to experience the end-game.

    And I'm not even talking about the difficulty level that is affected by this model:
    When you allow people to 'jump over' content, you create a community that doesn't get to learn PvE raid encounters. In the past, you had to go through several tiers before you got to the last tier so people had discipline and experience in their own classes and raid tactics which allowed for more complex high-end encounters.
    When you have people freshly dinged boosted to the last raiding tier, you have to design the encounters also for people who never raided before (since they never needed to 'learn' raiding, they just dropped in Tier3 with 'welfare gear').

    So you see, even if you're casual, you always have some new content when there is a proper progress model. When you break that model, you get what you see in WOW these days.

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