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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: My parting words.

  1. #1
    Soulwalker evle's Avatar
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    Default My parting words.

    I entered the Pagoda contest by Kuula, it was not about winning the competition for me, there are so many amazing creative people in RIFT, it was for me about being a part of something with a community who likes to do the same in game that i did.

    Winning would have been nice also, who doesn't like plat? but i knew that i wouldn't win.
    I messaged Kuula a few weeks ago and withdrew from the competition due to my lack of ability when it comes to building i didn't want to be embarrased by my efforts, i felt totally out of my comfort zone. I then thought it over and messaged him again that i would stay in the competition.

    How else was i going to make friends with people who like doing the same thing i did if i did not be a part of something and get to know people?

    This morning i got to watch the stream on Twitch and i was devestated.

    Not only did the judges mock, sigh and laugh their way through peoples dimensions, the facial expressions at times were disheartening also.

    I thought the judges were going to be tough yes, but did i expect them to make fun of peoples builds? no absolutely not.

    A lot of the comments were rude, mean and just plain negative, not at all helpful and encouraging.

    For example in mine, i have the Onir square table and 2 chairs, the chairs were slightly tucked under the table, so the judges could not sit down, if i had resized all this they would have complained that they were to large.. we can't win.

    I have 4 plants in my fountain i can not remember their name but they are the sort of plant that you find in water... so i added them to my fountain.

    My trees were complained about because they weren't in planters, fair enough they weren't they are trees.... people have baths and showers with running water, yet RIFT has no plumbing, there are helicopters and planes yet RIFT has no fuel or flying. My point is, i was mocked for my trees in my dimension, shouldn't then everything that has been built or morphed be mocked to?

    Anyway, i thought the judges would be fair, nice and encouraging, instead i witnessed redicule, mocking and negativity in a terrible way.

    In a game that is losing people more each day i thought it would have been better to encourage people to stay around and continue to play, improve and build and help them, not ridicule them in public to the point where they quit.

    Perhaps going forward the judges in any other contests will be mindful that constructive criticism is helpful, being mean, mocking , sighing and public redicule is not.

    I do thank Kuula for the competition,inspite of what you all said i do like my fish just above the water, i do like my cherry trees, and i am little bit OCD about chairs not being tucked in so i like my chairs to.

    A big congratulations to all the winners.

    Bye.

  2. #2
    Champion MissGreen's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by evle View Post
    I entered the Pagoda contest by Kuula, it was not about winning the competition for me, there are so many amazing creative people in RIFT, it was for me about being a part of something with a community who likes to do the same in game that i did.

    Winning would have been nice also, who doesn't like plat? but i knew that i wouldn't win.
    I messaged Kuula a few weeks ago and withdrew from the competition due to my lack of ability when it comes to building i didn't want to be embarrased by my efforts, i felt totally out of my comfort zone. I then thought it over and messaged him again that i would stay in the competition.

    How else was i going to make friends with people who like doing the same thing i did if i did not be a part of something and get to know people?

    This morning i got to watch the stream on Twitch and i was devestated.

    Not only did the judges mock, sigh and laugh their way through peoples dimensions, the facial expressions at times were disheartening also.

    I thought the judges were going to be tough yes, but did i expect them to make fun of peoples builds? no absolutely not.

    A lot of the comments were rude, mean and just plain negative, not at all helpful and encouraging.

    For example in mine, i have the Onir square table and 2 chairs, the chairs were slightly tucked under the table, so the judges could not sit down, if i had resized all this they would have complained that they were to large.. we can't win.

    I have 4 plants in my fountain i can not remember their name but they are the sort of plant that you find in water... so i added them to my fountain.

    My trees were complained about because they weren't in planters, fair enough they weren't they are trees.... people have baths and showers with running water, yet RIFT has no plumbing, there are helicopters and planes yet RIFT has no fuel or flying. My point is, i was mocked for my trees in my dimension, shouldn't then everything that has been built or morphed be mocked to?

    Anyway, i thought the judges would be fair, nice and encouraging, instead i witnessed redicule, mocking and negativity in a terrible way.

    In a game that is losing people more each day i thought it would have been better to encourage people to stay around and continue to play, improve and build and help them, not ridicule them in public to the point where they quit.

    Perhaps going forward the judges in any other contests will be mindful that constructive criticism is helpful, being mean, mocking , sighing and public redicule is not.

    I do thank Kuula for the competition,inspite of what you all said i do like my fish just above the water, i do like my cherry trees, and i am little bit OCD about chairs not being tucked in so i like my chairs to.

    A big congratulations to all the winners.

    Bye.
    Do not leave for someone else!!!! Please see my comment on that contest thread. I'm with you and She did this to some entries in the last contest. I think she lost a ton of followers for that reason.
    I am not here to take sides but I'm here to say that I understand. I will have to watch the livestream. When I do I will be back to say some words I'm sure. lol Another thing is don't ever let anyone toss you down, no one!
    I mean I am at a point in my life where I like critism if its well delivered. But if these judges did this, they should't even be aloud to run another contest as far as I can see from your discomfort, its not cool.
    Last edited by MissGreen; 07-14-2018 at 09:25 PM.
    "I've had so many names, old names that only the wind and trees can pronounce" - Pan's Labyrinth

  3. #3
    Champion MissGreen's Avatar
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    I went back to see your dim and I loved your work! I liked it right off the bat the first time around. I would NOT let anyone keep me from doing what I love to do and that person who sent me a ****ty in game mail, I'm sure they can't play music like I do, lol. I'm telling you, ignore it and stick with it. You have a gift, I loved your dim, who cares what people say or think of your work, it's yours and honestly I enjoyed it very much.
    "I've had so many names, old names that only the wind and trees can pronounce" - Pan's Labyrinth

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple Sparklynn's Avatar
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    Default just heart breaking...

    I am very sorry you had this experience. It breaks my heart.

    I too, as a judge myself, had hoped the stream would be one of celebration~ lifting each build up. I hope you saw my comments typed up in the stream. (Be aware I did have to leave early for a family affair, after 2hrs in)

    I hope that you do not let negative words said by others define you, what you should do, or what you can do.

  5. #5
    Soulwalker evle's Avatar
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    Default thank you

    Thank you for your kind words, i appreciate the support.

    I will not stay on though, i was embarrassed today publicly and it is hard to over come that.

    I wish you all happy building!

  6. #6
    Champion MissGreen's Avatar
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    I seen your words typed on the side Spark, you were clearly feeling it too. <3
    "I've had so many names, old names that only the wind and trees can pronounce" - Pan's Labyrinth

  7. #7
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    If this is indeed true then I'll take your side. Who doesn't love a bit of drama? The forums would be dead if there wasn't ;)

    No offense but from previous posts you do tend to 'over react' a little within the subject of offense and feelings, but we don't mind that! Everyone's different and we welcome all opinions. That's just my personal take.

    I'll be sure to watch it today and give my opinion. It sounds like from others they acted in disregard.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Ok so I'm 2 hours in, I'll stop for now as 4hrs is a lot to take in.

    Sure there's criticism, and at times unprofessional. My one bit of advise is to bullet-point positive criticism in simple statements, then say something positive and move on quickly.

    There was a little too much farting around, trying to excuse themselves for saying something negative and just simply digging the hole even more to a point it got rude at times (for example the ramp one). That leads onto another point, i think the video could have been more punchy and quicker. It's dragging a bit at the moment, my own positive criticism ;)


    But in terms of quitting the game because a few people threw digs here and there. Well that's up to you, but most wouldn't, they would take it, and do better next time. As others have said, if you're entering into a competition there will be some criticism to help the judges give reasons for their choices.


    I can't side with you on this one as I didn't see anything abruptly shocking. Publicly humiliated? Personally that's ridiculous, and a stretch too far. It is your opinion ofc, but it's not shared by anyone else. Maybe that's something you should reflect on. If it's such a big deal to you, then I can understand your choice for moving on. Good luck!
    Last edited by Refuge; 07-15-2018 at 06:09 AM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  9. #9
    Ascendant Onebutton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refuge View Post
    Ok so I'm 2 hours in, I'll stop for now as 4hrs is a lot to take in.

    Sure there's criticism, and at times unprofessional. My one bit of advise is to bullet-point positive criticism in simple statements, then say something positive and move on quickly.

    There was a little too much farting around, trying to excuse themselves for saying something negative and just simply digging the hole even more to a point it got rude at times (for example the ramp one). That leads onto another point, i think the video could have been more punchy and quicker. It's dragging a bit at the moment, my own positive criticism ;)


    But in terms of quitting the game because a few people threw digs here and there. Well that's up to you, but most wouldn't, they would take it, and do better next time. As others have said, if you're entering into a competition there will be some criticism to help the judges give reasons for their choices.


    I can't side with you on this one as I didn't see anything abruptly shocking. Publicly humiliated? Personally that's ridiculous, and a stretch too far. It is your opinion ofc, but it's not shared by anyone else. Maybe that's something you should reflect on. If it's such a big deal to you, then I can understand your choice for moving on. Good luck!
    The OP is trying to say they were hurt by the way the judges approached the criticism.. NO one wants to be made to feel bad, and don't go on saying to toughing up their skin. People don't want to be cut down or made fun of. Period. Let the judges perhaps learn from this and remember to try to be kinder to those who didn't do the best work. You want them to improve, not to feel bad!

    Sorry this happened to you (OP), and I hope perhaps you continue doing what you enjoy and find people whom you like playing the game with.. Stay away from this competition for a while and just be as creative as you can and have fun.

    Example, I will share that perhaps might hit home. I have been a musician all my life (since age 12), but i still had to go to college and graduate. I took Accounting for my major. I was in a class called Accounting Theory. I studied for the test too and the teacher posted all the grades on the boards and I got the worst grade in the entire class - an F MINUS!. He called me up and one other person and said, we will never be accountants, we should change our major. I told that teacher, you will never be a musician and don't make fun of my grades publicly. I reported him, and he had to apologize to me and the entire class. They let me re-take the test and I finished that class with a C minus and then the head of the dept, changed it to a C. I ended up becoming friends with that teacher for some bizarre reason we had the same birthday lol, and we use to go sailing with each other every year at Lake Powell for 3 days each year for 10 years. Things can actually change in life and you can get better and so can the teacher/judges. Good Luck!
    OneButton (Half-way now to becoming a two-button player!)
    If there is anything you need, just ask, and I will tell you how to get along Without it!
    "One button raid member of GraySkull"

  10. #10
    Rift Chaser Arwhen's Avatar
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    I think very sincerely that leaving the game for comments that may seem offensive, is a confession of weakness. The opposite reaction would be much more positive. Create a new dimension, share it and epic us. You have to know how to accept ALL criticisms, whether positive or negative, even if these criticisms are mocking. Life IRL puts us in front of such situations, self-mockery is much more striking than self-pity. To give up is never the solution.
    I hope that you will overcome this "test" and that you will return to us more motivated than ever.

  11. #11
    Plane Touched Coldsprite's Avatar
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    I think, that while criticism is important from growth, there is a time and place for it. You don't criticize people in public - irl if you have a problem or a critique of something someone has done, you would pull them aside and let them know in private. I feel that people went in to the stream not expecting their work was going to be critiqued in public. If that had been made known in advance, it seems to me that feelings wouldn't have been as hurt - especially if people were given the option to opt-in or opt-out. A lot of previous contests offered that if people wanted to know how they scored or what they did poorly on, they could send private messages to the judges to ask. I think THAT is a much better way to approach the subject matter.

    I play Rift and build dimensions as a way to relax from work and stresses of life. There are times at work that I have to face criticism, sometimes constructive, sometimes unnecessarily harsh. If I had to deal with that in Rift as well, I could see myself handling it in two different ways: if I was just starting out in Rift, I would probably quit the game due to the negative environment. After playing for a number of years though, I know how wonderful the community can be and would instead just place the people in question on my ignore list.

    That is not to say that I see criticism as negative or bad - there is a lot of good criticism that you can receive and build on. But context, tone, and whether that criticism is asked for or not are very important to me. I completely understand how others may see things different, which is why clear communication about what people can expect from a judging and the stream that follows is extremely important.

  12. #12
    Soulwalker
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    Criticism on creative outlets was never something I really liked to see in these contests. I don't like to watch any of these contests because many get downright cruel. Bashing someone's creativity and efforts is pointless, especially when it comes to designing dimensions or costumes or whatever. There is no meter to gauge, it's personal preference. I've never seen this level of cruelty in the EQ2 housing/designing community, I was pretty disappointed to see it here.

    I'm sorry you had this happen to you, where you felt hurt and poked fun at. Don't let this deter you though, play and design for you. There are better people out there, don't let these push you away.

    With a game aging, I'd think the community would be more welcoming and kind. Stuff like this causes people to quit taking part of community activities.
    Last edited by kaozz; 07-16-2018 at 04:05 PM.

  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Refuge's Avatar
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    Problems:

    1. This is a similar discussion on how competitions are judged. This is inevitable, everyone has an opinion, most like to voice it.

    2. One person was particularly affected, everyone's now saying their bit as naturally everyone likes to get involved in a bit of drama.

    3. Forums are dying out, people are getting bored. More reason for people to get involved.

    4. Opinion is simply an opinion. It's not necessarily important to consider all opinions as opinions can be wrong. But if we're going to continue a strong community we need to find a way to deal with fractured opinions and find common ground.


    Solutions:

    1. Competitions are privately organised, they are not part of any organisation, therefore it is their decision how they deal with it, negative or positive. Do your research of the judges, make your own decision on submission.

    2. Competitions are often judged by a strict criteria due to concerns expressed in the passed. It may therefore be a good suggestion to do the same for criticism. Create a criteria, keep it to maximum 2 points, 1 sentence each (that is if you want to give criticism while judging). Further this with discussing criticism before sharing, agree if it's fair or too negative, move on quickly when given. There was no structure to the criticism which led to risky comments going onnn and onnn, exemplified by body language, it came to no surprise there were complaints.

    3. Do not ask for an apology, this is suggesting your opinion is right and someone else's is wrong, this is not constructive. Instead we reflect. Individuals will reflect and make choices on future decisions and discussions. Judges will reflect and see if they can be more prepared in future. We all reflect on where each person is coming from and we make good.

    4. There's not a single person in the dimension community that want's anyone to stop building. I ****ing love everyone of you builders, from 'weak' builds to 'strong' builds, you all make my day better when I tour these. I understand why Judges give criticism as they want to see people grow, not to slam them down. Keep on building, keep the community going. I think it goes without saying that deep down we all want to stick together and enjoy this road together, despite varying views.

    5. I think the community has gone a bit quiet recently, naturally following the games progression. It would be nice to do something together. Possibly a collaboration of all builders. For example we get a 100 items each and we take it in turns to develop one dimension. It could be constructing your own object or continuing on from someone else's idea. A bit like "Pass it on", you know when you draw the head, and someone else does the body. If you like the sounds of this then let me know and I'll consider organising it. It's better we get off this topic now and move onto something brighter.
    Last edited by Refuge; 07-17-2018 at 04:12 AM.
    Fwob - Zaviel

  14.   This is the last Rift Team post in this thread.   #14
    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    Hey Evie,

    Please do not be discouraged. Build. Create. Enjoy!

    I too have put myself out there, in art contests, singing competitions, costume contests... it's HARD to be in a competition, and it demonstrates a level of bravery that many never undertake.
    I learned to grow from critiques, to improve, and to learn not to take things TOO much to heart.

    We will overtly encourage future contest coverage to be kind in commentary, because entrants do put so much heart and soul into these works. I see that an apology was made already by those involved, and it's a learning experience for all.


    So let me go back to... BUILD. CREATE. ENJOY.
    Brasse

  15. #15
    Soulwalker Filix's Avatar
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    Are you part or the dimensionaddicts@deepwood channel?

    So sorry you had a negative experience with the contest, I hope you reconsider and stay. I've found that so many dimensioneers are ready to give advice and extra supplies at the drop of a hat and really enjoy seeing the effort others put into their creations, regardless of whether they're "good" or "bad". it's a really great community over all, I hope this doesn't discourage you completely. -Filix@faeblight
    Dimensions:

    Sorrow's End @ Faeblight

    Fleabite best bite.

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