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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Pagoda Dimension Contest : sponsored by Faeblight United : 4-8-18 to 7-8-18

  1. #166
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arwhen View Post
    ...

    All that to say that I do not throw stones at anyone in this contest, neither participant nor judge. For if there is anything more difficult than to create a dimension, it is to judge it.
    Arwhen, thank you for the quote. I spent the better part of last night and today thinking about the hurt that some of the participants felt while watching the live stream and thinking about the utter regret and shame the judges were made to feel for having been the unwitting cause of that hurt. I empathize with both because I have had my share of criticism and regret throughout my 49 years and I know intimately how it feels to be on both ends of the spectrum. I can honestly say that the pain I feel when I criticise is far worse than the pain I have ever felt while being criticised because I would rather hurt than cause others to hurt.

    That said, before I read your post, I had found a quote to match my thoughts, but then read your post and decided to begin my thoughts by quoting you. I hope you don't mind.

    To extend my thoughts, here is the quote I originally found:

    “We need very strong ears to hear ourselves judged frankly, and because there are few who can endure frank criticism without being stung by it, those who venture to criticize us perform a remarkable act of friendship, for to undertake to wound or offend a man for his own good is to have a healthy love for him.” – Michel de Montaigne

    Gosh, there was another quote that I can't find, but it basically says that when you only praise someone, it is detrimental to him...a person can't grow from praise alone. At some point, we need to know what our shortcomings are or we can't compensate for them. We can never truly improve if we don't know our weaknesses.

    Anyway, I watched the entire live stream from beginning to end, and while I felt the stings as if they could have been my own, there was a lot of great constructive criticism. Yes, the judges got tired and silly after awhile (you would too, admit it), but I didn't sense any meanness or ill will (if I had, I would have been the first one to stand up and say something). In fact, because of the criticisms on the live stream, I have begun a complete renovation of my first real dim that I built a couple of years ago. I first built it after perusing the dimension sites and realised I could build a palace if I wanted to. And that's what I did. Countless hours of building. But I always felt it was off somehow. I was proud of it, of course, but something was definitely not right and I couldn't pinpoint it. But after hearing all the reasons for this or that dimension not placing or winning, I have better ideas how to make it right for me. For me. I am always striving to be better at everything that I do because when I feel amazing, I spread that amazement.

    I placed 3rd in the last contest, and I listened well to all of the criticism given about my dim. It stung a bit (more embarrassing than anything - to myself because I already knew within me what was off about it, and that self-criticiser won't let go, so everything seems worse when someone else points it out, doesn't it?). But I kept it all in mind as I built my monastery. And it apparently showed.

    To be honest, in spite of my efforts for this contest, I really did not expect to win because, like every person, I am my own worst critic. It takes a more objective critic to inspire me in the right direction. So thank you, judges, for daring to uplift.
    Last edited by Maybella; 07-16-2018 at 05:11 PM.

  2. #167
    Plane Touched MissMimic's Avatar
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    All in all, the apology still stands, do apologize for hurt feelings. I read what everyone has said and take this as my criticism on how to be a better judge and creator and do right by you all in the future. I hope the things said do not discourage anyone to leave the game or stop building, if anything hope it encourages you to continue and do more. Myself and all the judges think you all did amazing work.

    As a judge, we look at your work not through your eyes but our eyes, and it is going to be basis to what our taste are and not are. We could all look at the same work of art and see something different than the next person. You all had amazing visions in this contest and you should all be proud of yourselves, this goes for winners and those that did not win. I love all the visions you had and do hope to see your future works in other contest whether I host, judge, participate or just causally run myself into. I cant always edit my personality and do have a habit to joke about things and say things that might not be the most professional or could be miscommunication as something offensive or just a terrible joke, but will work on muted some of those traits when I am showcasing others creations instead of my own. I honestly just wanted you all to get into the minds of how we judged, and it seemed to be an abrasive approach for that I am sorry. This was suppose to be fun, going in through the tours, giving feedback, chatting and celebration of all the dimensions, but I did a poor job showcasing that and for that I am sorry. I am human and do make mistakes and plan to learn from the mistakes made.

    Thank you for everyone that entered, and look forward to your future creations. This was fun experience and was nice to judge. Hope all the creators of dims took what was said to grow themselves as creators, as I myself do the same with your feedback to me here on the forums. Create on!


    xoxoxox stay cuddly as always
    ~ KelariCuddles ~
    Last edited by MissMimic; 07-17-2018 at 11:25 AM.

  3. #168
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMimic View Post
    your dim was nice. figured the elevator was for getting up top. thats why i did not judge you on that. elevators hate me. and i had ultra settings on. did i still not see your terrain paint? but yeah. it was still a lovely dim. its the kind of dim you want to go afk in so pretty to be in it. you did a great job. keep up the good work! and now we know why the dim isnt dwarf friendly cause your a bahmi! good job.
    OMFG!!! - I did not know that was even a setting - WHY !?

    I can understand having a higher definition, more reflections, more shadows, but not more STUFF !!!

    My dimension looks awful and nothing like how it was meant to.

    Please visit again and take a look with less "clutter" before i demolish it ... and my previously favourite dimension Magickal Garden, which also looks atrocious now. Back to the drawing board lol
    Last edited by Player01; 07-17-2018 at 12:12 PM.

  4. #169
    Telaran
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    “We need very strong ears to hear ourselves judged frankly, and because there are few who can endure frank criticism without being stung by it, those who venture to criticize us perform a remarkable act of friendship, for to undertake to wound or offend a man for his own good is to have a healthy love for him.” – Michel de Montaigne
    Lets change it. Critique and Criticism are two very negative Words. It is me telling you to pay attention to something because it does not please me, it is wrong according to my opinion, without offering any suggestions to improve.

    Example *You love your A-size dress and you love wearing it.
    Me telling you it does not look good on you, that is my opinion with no regards for your feelings. (or you just dont care that I tell you). Negative

    Constuctive criticism is me noticing that you love the dress and love wearing it, but an A-size might not be the best choice for you. So I tell you that I can tell you love the dress and love wearing, and you should consider wearing a bodyshaped, since you have a nice body and it is a shame not showing it off. (still my opinion but with a constuctive suggestion) Positive

    Michel de Montaigne is from the 15th centory, his Words does hold some truth (in my opinion), however had he lived today, I believe he would refrase it and also use the word constructive critisicm.
    Last edited by Nirrana; 07-18-2018 at 01:13 AM.

  5. #170
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMimic View Post
    As a judge, we look at your work not through your eyes but our eyes, and it is going to be basis to what our taste are and not are. We could all look at the same work of art and see something different than the next person.
    No, a flower is a flower, a house is a house. Whether you like it or not doesn't change anything. If a pagoda with the above criteria is required, it is judged according to it and not according to personal taste.

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMimic View Post
    Use whatever key you would like, or the new one (bonus points)
    Really?

    Quote Originally Posted by MissMimic View Post
    oooo look forward to your dim. the last one you did I saw was breathing taking.
    Apart from the fact that starting a new competition the next day (and that 2 weeks of construction time seems like a joke and shows that you don't really care about the circumstances of dimensional construction) does not indicate that you have taken time to think, these quotes and the constant assurances from you show me: Exactly the opposite of your words seems to be true.

    I don't think you understand enough what a judge should think or say or not. What evaluation criteria should be or not. What means objectivity or respectful handling of given circumstances.
    Except maybe the fact that someone may be bothered by negative criticism.

    All I read is: Build a dimension that I like. Now I understand why the rumour is circulating on Brutwacht that we should build "american" in order to meet the taste of the judges. That may still be possible, even if it has less to do with an own construction method, but how can we know your taste?

    No, you shouldn't be a judge until that really matters to you.

    Sorry for harsh words, I'd like to make it clear, hoping you'll understand better what it's all about. I also think criticism is important and makes people grow, but this stubbornness and lack of self-reflection just tells me: In tthis new competition is already clear who will win, namely the one who best meets YOUR taste.

    These were the JUDGING CRITERIA:
    Technical Detail - proportions, accuracy, quality
    Imagination - morphing, originality, creative
    Aesthetics - flow, theme, appeal

    and all what you talk about is personal taste. Yes, it is your eyes and thoughts that look at everything, but as a judge you should turn them off as much as possible and show objectivity and evaluate the given criteria and not more. The other judges have done it.

    I saw the whole stream last night, and now I'm even more appalled.

    Why didn't anyone stop this farce?
    Last edited by Valiope; 07-18-2018 at 04:12 AM.

  6. #171
    Rift Disciple Sparklynn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiope View Post
    Apart from the fact that starting a new competition the next day
    The Alsbeth Beach Party contest, as I understand it, came from Trion, during their livestream. It was to be a way to showcase the lovely new Summerfest items that the art team created. This was the day before the touring stream for the pagodas.

    Normally most who run contest, try their best to be respectful of other contests and builders by distancing contests out. I think in this circumstance they wanted the contest to be relevant to what is going on in game ~Grim Remembrance & Summerfest

    Quote Originally Posted by Valiope View Post
    All I read is: Build a dimension that I like. Now I understand why the rumour is circulating on Brutwacht that we should build "american" in order to meet the taste of the judges. That may still be possible, even if it has less to do with an own construction method, but how can we know your taste?
    This, to me, is most unfortunate. I understand that there are some continental divides between tastes due to different cultures. However you should ALWAYS build what makes YOU happy and what YOU LIKE. If it is possible that something might not be understood, adding a note on forums for a contest entry is a good idea. A well informed judge can do their job more properly. I certainly tried to do some research on the dimensions that were entered into the pagoda contest, like looking up who Thanatos was and what Tianlong meant.


    I hope that this new contest offers both builders and judges alike another chance to make this a stronger community.
    Last edited by Sparklynn; 07-19-2018 at 06:27 PM. Reason: disregarding grammar and focusing in on detail.

  7. #172
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valiope View Post
    These were the JUDGING CRITERIA:
    Technical Detail - proportions, accuracy, quality
    Imagination - morphing, originality, creative
    Aesthetics - flow, theme, appeal
    This would have been useful information before we started building, also the fact that we were being judged on the whole dimension and not just the pagoda, which is what I thought the challenge was. Previous competitions have been solely on the subject matter.

    I would also like to suggest judges from different countries

    Edit: Actually I think the best and fairest judges are the other competitors, who have first hand experience in the challenges faced.
    Last edited by Player01; 07-21-2018 at 01:52 PM.

  8. #173
    Shadowlander
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    i dint realy planed to react on all this bs: i watched parts of the stream and i gues i dont have to start about how hurtfull some things were however i will start about the NOT fair judging my pagoda was just a pagoda and because the contest was MAKE A PAGODA and never said you need to decorate the dim itself i stuck to just the pagoda .ive been true hell and back to make my pagoda the way it is if i knew it would be seens as empty ect i would have trown in some trees and not be focust on a pagoda but on all around .1 of the judges fell over my item limit wel big LOL to you you dint even realise it was ment to be like that you thought the balls on the roofs killed my item count wile its onley 2 spreres a ball LMAO .to me that seems you dint have a clue what you talked about .also not so fair to go judge my pagoda at distance wile its clearly ment to looked from close yes at distance you see flikker but you go try to make what i did whiutout distance flikkers .....also there we go about you dint know what ur doing you claimed i have a bugg in my dimension in the entery again ROFL have you ever heared of dimension entry point ? or did you think you came in to my dimension at the spot trion place you ? for me its oke you dint hurt me t bad whit ur coments you just showed me you dint have a clue what you were talking about .i wont join a contest ever again because of this but you wont kill my fun in building im even planing on making 1 dimension special for you the no brain judge ( im sorry for that 1 but hey ur not so nice either ) .for all pagoda big thums up great job on all .( wanna coment on me wisper me in game on anybody@typhiria) this coment aint to be harsh its just what kept me awake a few nights

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