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Thread: My apologies Marnth

  1. #1
    Soulwalker
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    Default My apologies Marnth

    It has been brought to my attention that I might be a thief. And I surely didn't mean to do that!


    I love touring dims. It's how I learn to build better. So, when I saw paint in a vase my mind went; "Yeah, that makes sense." Just like putting two poles together, turning one and making stripes appear. It was that simple of a revelation to me. So, I used it in my CC3 contest entry and tried to expand upon it.


    That was an error. Clearly, a large one as I seem to be being shunned by many core dimmers.


    I altered and expanded the concept 4 ways. I didn't think it was a particularly remarkable concept so it never occurred to me that I should seek permission to use the idea. I didn't feel as though I had copied anything specific. I was wrong.


    So here I sit, begging your forgiveness. I didn't mean to step onto a design element that was unique. I just built a little country artist's cottage. And filled it with the things I love. Yes, I paint. I'm an herbalist by profession. I love gardens. And music. And I put them in there.


    Marnth, I'm sorry. Truly sorry. I find great inspiration in your work. I didn't mean to steal anything. I did not mean to insult you by theft. Merely to honor your idea by taking it on further.


    Again, I am truly sorry. Please forgive me.


    And to the dim community; my apologies. You ain't heard the last of me.
    Torrment, Crowgirl, Torrcher @Laethys

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple Zeamage's Avatar
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    i'm sorry, but i do not see how putting anything in a jar/vase can be considered stealing. Ofc i havenīt seen the items in question. There are so many things we all make, over and over again, and stuff in jars is deffo one of them.
    from this description only, it seems like someone has got something stuck somewhere
    I get the credit for being the "inventor" of the stripy poles and spheres, but honestly, i was just (maybe) the first to discover it, and i went yelling to the whole community with it. But if i hadnīt discovered it, someone else would have within a short time. Stripy poles and stuff i jars is not an invention or a master creation, like a piano or a sofa.... Its just something we all do.
    I struggle to see how you can be considered a thief...
    I do kinda hope you saved the set and loaded it, thats the only way i can think of that justifies, just a little bit, that anyone feels crossed about it.
    Hidden Gem By Zeamage@Gelidra

  3. #3
    Rift Disciple Zeamage's Avatar
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    ok, i just went in to have a look... ANYONE could have thought of that at any time..... srsly.....
    That has been done since time began... if we are wearing that small shoes of who did what, i want my stripes back...... NOBODY use them ever again or i will give you the cold shoulder....
    Hidden Gem By Zeamage@Gelidra

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Torrment,
    I really thought after our conversation this morning you understood I accepted your apology. And chalked this up to a mistake pure and simple. Not once were you called a thief except by yourself which I told you, you were not. Nor to my knowledge have you been shunned by anyone in this great community. I did explain however how some players react to people who continually copy. Maybe this was misunderstood. As I explained to you it is best to ask if it is ok to use someone's idea. Most will tell you it's ok as long as you make it your own.
    I truly hope you understand now.

    I don't even understand why this was brought to the forums to be honest but now that you have maybe the "borrowing" copying, needs to be addressed.

    There has been quiet a bit of "borrowing" of late without any communication between the borrower and the person who has an admired item. I have seen conversations in chat that this ok to do and is a form of flattery. Many do not hold to this view.

    So please to avoid the above situation, if you see something that you admire and want to use in your dimension drop a note or pm that person and ask if it is ok. Then it will truly be a form of flattery and you may find a friend in the process and maybe even some help.
    .... ...

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple Zeamage's Avatar
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    ohhh no, what about using mugs or vases for handles.... poles and triangles for kitchenroll, wedding alter for a toilet, tabels for cabinets, SCROLLS FOR LAMPSHADES!!! or those golden things we all use for knobs for hot and cold water....... i could go on....
    Is that all forbidden??? we are all thieves....
    Zea has gotten a little worked up...... Zea is disappointed.......
    Hidden Gem By Zeamage@Gelidra

  6. #6
    Plane Walker
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    Zea
    please check you mail
    .... ...

  7. #7
    Soulwalker
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    Yes, shunned. There are a number of people raising eyebrows. The chill is palpable.


    I thought it best to make a formal apology to you here, within the whole of the community. You deserve that. I used your idea without your expressed permission. And you took action on that. I am comforted by our earlier chat. Thank you for that. Still, with other people assuming I did a wrong thing, I thought it best to clear the air most publicly. It was a very public screwup.


    Again, my apologies.


    And yes, there needs to be conversations about what is reasonable use of a concept. Because I surely didn't assume to intrude.
    Torrment, Crowgirl, Torrcher @Laethys

  8. #8
    Rift Disciple Frappenguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crowgirl View Post
    It has been brought to my attention that I might be a thief. And I surely didn't mean to do that!


    I love touring dims. It's how I learn to build better. So, when I saw paint in a vase my mind went; "Yeah, that makes sense." Just like putting two poles together, turning one and making stripes appear. It was that simple of a revelation to me. So, I used it in my CC3 contest entry and tried to expand upon it.


    That was an error. Clearly, a large one as I seem to be being shunned by many core dimmers.


    I altered and expanded the concept 4 ways. I didn't think it was a particularly remarkable concept so it never occurred to me that I should seek permission to use the idea. I didn't feel as though I had copied anything specific. I was wrong.


    So here I sit, begging your forgiveness. I didn't mean to step onto a design element that was unique. I just built a little country artist's cottage. And filled it with the things I love. Yes, I paint. I'm an herbalist by profession. I love gardens. And music. And I put them in there.


    Marnth, I'm sorry. Truly sorry. I find great inspiration in your work. I didn't mean to steal anything. I did not mean to insult you by theft. Merely to honor your idea by taking it on further.


    Again, I am truly sorry. Please forgive me.


    And to the dim community; my apologies. You ain't heard the last of me.
    Here we go again!

    I will say it once again. Sorry if it seams turse. Not trying to be rude or mean to anyone.

    IT IS ALL TRION'S ARTWORK TO START WITH. Anyone who claims any specific ownership of any one way of spinning their dimension items is delusional. Just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it has never been done.

    EVERYONE takes ideas from others, including the devs, and expands upon them to make them their own. That is THE VERY essence of dimension building and successful games in general.

    That is not to say that there aren't talented original artists working on dims, there are. But no one has ownership of something which is actually the sum of parts they had nothing to do with creating.
    Last edited by Frappenguy; 01-10-2018 at 11:34 AM.
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  9. #9
    Rift Disciple Loveyttsab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frappenguy View Post
    Here we go again!

    I will say it once again. Sorry if it seams turse. Not trying to be rude or mean to anyone.

    IT IS ALL TRION'S ARTWORK TO START WITH. Anyone who claims any specific ownership of any one way of spinning their dimension items is delusional. Just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it has never been done.

    EVERYONE takes ideas from others, including the devs, and expands upon them to make them their own. That is THE VERY essence of dimension building and successful games in general.

    That is not to say that there aren't talented original artists working on dims, there are. But no one has ownership of something which is actually the sum of parts they had nothing to do with creating.
    Its not Trion artwork...its made by us ...Trion provide us with a tools to make a dimension art.
    I agree agree agree agree with Zeamage!!!!....
    Last edited by Loveyttsab; 01-11-2018 at 07:34 AM.

  10. #10
    Rift Disciple Zeamage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frappenguy View Post
    Here we go again!

    I will say it once again. Sorry if it seams turse. Not trying to be rude or mean to anyone.

    IT IS ALL TRION'S ARTWORK TO START WITH. Anyone who claims any specific ownership of any one way of spinning their dimension items is delusional. Just because you haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it has never been done.

    EVERYONE takes ideas from others, including the devs, and expands upon them to make them their own. That is THE VERY essence of dimension building and successful games in general.

    That is not to say that there aren't talented original artists working on dims, there are. But no one has ownership of something which is actually the sum of parts they had nothing to do with creating.
    Could you please just stop commenting on anything regarding this subject.... sick and tired of reading the same *****
    So when i buy some paint at the shops, they own my artwork too? Or if i build my own house out of premade bricks, they own that too?? Or when i make a pot out of clay, does that belong to the ppl that made the clay???
    Last edited by Zeamage; 01-11-2018 at 11:48 AM.
    Hidden Gem By Zeamage@Gelidra

  11. #11
    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    There IS a difference between being inspired by something and stealing. Most of us use a lot of small 2-3 item morphs without asking permission from anyone (toilets, dish soap, toilet paper etc), and to be fair, anyone could have come up with the same combination of 2 items.

    Regarding the example with the paint jars, yes they got inspired from seeing them in another dimension, but they clearly made small changes to them to make them their own.
    I would probably have done the same thing if I had come across them and wanted to use them in a build, in my opinion nobody can claim ownership of 2 items combined.

    I would however always ask if I wanted to use something like a piece of very detailed or distinctive wall art (I would not ask if its 2 flowers in a frame) or another morph that is very clearly not something that people would randomly create by combining a few items.

    Of course stealing is not OK, I have seen a few of my fairly complex morphs in other peoples builds (even an entire dimension of mine was copied once), that's not particularly fun, but people using something I made in a completely different way or changing it to something new is not stealing, and I am totally fine with that.

    Do we really want people to be scared of being called thief if they get inspired by others?
    Half the fun of touring other peoples dimensions is the inspiration you get from seeing how others combine items.

    And if someone goes and outright copies or steals your intricate morph, then first talk to them and try to sort it out calmly, and don't blow it out of proportions.
    People usually listen when you talk to them and nicely explain what they did wrong.

    We have such a special community, and it is way more fun without unnecessary drama

    Hugs
    Poly

  12. #12
    Plane Walker
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    I can certainly understand why people would think, by the way the original post was composed, that I approached Torrement about those paint pots. The truth is I never approached her about that item or any other. I did take an action however that was questioned. The paint pots were used as an example as to why I took the action. I see no need to go into the entire conversation.

    I hope this clears up the issue for the small item at least.
    .... ...

  13. #13
    Ascendant Kiwi's Avatar
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    Marnth, I have absolutely no doubt there are misunderstandings occurring because this thread has your name at the very top of it. You are a wonderful person who would never take something small to heart and any decisions you make would be because of multiple reasons not one.

    I don't need to know these reasons, things like this should be sorted outside of public forums because they can only get blown out of proportion - especially if two people are already conversing.

    This topic has also come up before, the word thief thrown around before which is a shame but here today that your name is on this thread so boldly is making me frown more than that is because you are such a dedicated, generous and caring person.

    I am sure the OP is also, I do not know you and I hope needing to post has helped because everybody matters. At the end of the day however, how someone feels about their creations in dimensions is theirs - there's so many individual thoughts behind everything and dimensions are very personal but on a very public forum I'm just here hoping Marnth is ok and you are too. Lets all virtual hug and enjoy this year, because we can

  14. #14
    Soulwalker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeamage View Post
    ohhh no, what about using mugs or vases for handles.... poles and triangles for kitchenroll, wedding alter for a toilet, tabels for cabinets, SCROLLS FOR LAMPSHADES!!! or those golden things we all use for knobs for hot and cold water....... i could go on....
    Is that all forbidden??? we are all thieves....
    Zea has gotten a little worked up...... Zea is disappointed.......
    oh yes, those wedding toilets... they everywhere! i rebelled and used a chamber pot with wooden stool(watch out for those splinters)

    I don't think it's stealing if someone sees something that's used creatively to look like something else and says "ah something like that would look great in my dimension!" eg* wedding altar or mug handle, or even taking some building blocks and making them look like something else.

    stealing is when someone uses the toolkit copy command on my custom-made piano or medieval gallery oven then pastes it in their dimension...

  15. #15
    RIFT Fan Site Operator DimensionDiva's Avatar
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    Most identical morphs occur through borrowing, either via shared sets on the Dimension Addicts website or directly from dimensions. Borrowing directly from dimensions isn't necessarily bad, as long as it's done properly. Most of us don't borrow without permission in our real lives, so why are people less respectful here? Having mutual respect for each other and asking for permission to borrow each other's morphs should be customary in such a close-knit community. If direct borrowing of morphs was done in a "fair and square" manner (by asking for permission), a lot of misunderstandings and hurt feelings could be eliminated.
    Last edited by DimensionDiva; 01-12-2018 at 12:09 PM.

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