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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Terrace pond and wide terrace pond frustrations

  1. #1
    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    Default Terrace pond and wide terrace pond frustrations

    Why oh why can these not reflect the current sky in a dimension?
    I have on several occasions placed them in dimensions where I have used a sunny sky projector but they still reflect the base dimensions default sky, which is somewhat problematic if it is dark and gloomy.

    Is there any chance we can have them reflect they current sky?
    Or alternatively have our old version back (you could call it blue sky pond or something) that reflects blue sky with fluffy clouds regardless of what the sky looks like?

    I so miss that old terrace pond...

  2. #2
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    What about the DW crafted pond surfaces? Do they work the same, or maybe you could replace the ponds with those instead? I'm not suggesting, just asking, because I'm not sure myself:)
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    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    They are less reflective, but appear to also reflect the base dimensions sky, and not the current projected one.
    They look kinda dark in my dimension, but just saw some pond surfaces placed in a naturally sunny dimension, and they look way more like I want mine to look, so I am now fairly sure all ponds and surfaces reflect the base dimension.

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    Telaran Egbert's Avatar
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    Default Because

    If you look carefully, you'll see there are no reflections in any surfaces in Rift, only simulated ones. I suspect Rift's graphics engine is incapable of rendering reflections.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Egbert View Post
    If you look carefully, you'll see there are no reflections in any surfaces in Rift, only simulated ones. I suspect Rift's graphics engine is incapable of rendering reflections.
    I am pretty sure I can see the reflections of mountains, trees and other stuff in the water I have placed and it also seems to take colour from the original dimensions sky.
    I REALLY don't hope I am starting to see things that are not there, next thing would be hearing voices telling me to run with scissors or cut that little tag of my pillows

    I will take some screenshots of various locations to (hopefully) show what I mean.

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    Rift Disciple Frappenguy's Avatar
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    The reflections aren't just the dimension sky. It is a snapshot inverted of the dimension key default sky and horizon scene unmodified. That's where the mountains and buildings come from in the surface.

    I have seen a few glass and metallic objects (not blocks) that have an actual reflection but is only a few pixels of the nearby object before it blurs out.

    Personally, I wish that the pond surfaces were right clickable OR the option existed to either have that default effect OR the "distortion" water effect seen in the base of the Drumhiem fountains.
    Last edited by Frappenguy; 06-28-2017 at 07:05 AM.

  7. #7
    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    That makes sense, thank you
    Still doesn't change the fact that I want nice shiny ponds that reflect a sunny blue sky with a few clouds though...

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    Director of Community Relations TrionBrasse's Avatar
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    I am going to bet that the concept of "real reflections" can't happen. It would be nightmarishly challenging to create and would probably crush our feeble, mortal computers. But I am also curious. =)

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    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    I am going to bet that the concept of "real reflections" can't happen. It would be nightmarishly challenging to create and would probably crush our feeble, mortal computers. But I am also curious. =)
    Oh I am not asking for real reflections, just that it reflects/takes a snapshot(or whatever it is that happens now) of the current projector instead of the original one

    Alternatively:
    Back in ye olde days, the item called Terrace Pond had a very pretty surface that showed a clear blue sky with a few white clouds.
    It had this "reflection" regardless of what dimension you placed it in, to great frustration for some and great joy for others.

    It was changed a few times since then, but if the original item is still out there somewhere; I would love to have that back

    edit: ofc not replacing the current ones as this would greatly frustrate all those people who build dark and gloomy dimensions
    Last edited by polynomia; 06-28-2017 at 08:44 PM.

  10. #10
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by polynomia View Post
    Oh I am not asking for real reflections, just that it reflects/takes a snapshot(or whatever it is that happens now) of the current projector instead of the original one
    It looks a lot like the reflection map is pre-rendered and just loaded from the assets, so I doubt Rift can create a new one on the fly.
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  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Frappenguy's Avatar
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    Default Terrace Ponds and Mineral Pools

    Quote Originally Posted by TrionBrasse View Post
    I am going to bet that the concept of "real reflections" can't happen. It would be nightmarishly challenging to create and would probably crush our feeble, mortal computers. But I am also curious. =)
    There are two different water effects present - outside of the mechanic that causes swimming action. That will effect NPC items placed on it.

    One I would call "distortion" and the other one a "false reflection." I am sure the question is that the false reflection somehow trigger of off projectors also, to display that sky rather than the default key sky scene now being used.

    Personally, I would prefer all of the water effects to just be the distortion effect seen in the water in the base of fountains.

    Also, these two effects can be compared by viewing the Terrace Pond (static reflection) item surfaces vs. the Ember Isle Mineral Pools (distortion animated) item.

    I would point out that the recipe for the Dreamweaver does say "Terrace Pond Surface".

  12. #12
    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    I took a screenshot of 3 pond items placed in the sunny 'anywhere' dimension.
    Wide terrace pond, terrace pond and square terrace pond surface.

    The terrace pond (top one) seems to have a much more shiny "reflective" surface than the wide terrace pond, and the pond surface has almost no shinyness.
    No matter where I stand, to me it looks like 3 different kinds of water effects.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Terrace pond and wide terrace pond frustrations-2017-06-28_193812.jpg  

  13. #13
    Telaran Egbert's Avatar
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    In all likelihood it's a function of the camera view and lighting source geometry. The background "ground surface" texture also plays a role in the color of the water and therefore the fake reflection as well. try the same experiment with a pitch black sky projector and see what difference there is if any


    Quote Originally Posted by polynomia View Post
    I took a screenshot of 3 pond items placed in the sunny 'anywhere' dimension.
    Wide terrace pond, terrace pond and square terrace pond surface.

    The terrace pond (top one) seems to have a much more shiny "reflective" surface than the wide terrace pond, and the pond surface has almost no shinyness.
    No matter where I stand, to me it looks like 3 different kinds of water effects.

  14. #14
    General of Telara
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    The Ember Isle Mineral Pools don't seem to have reflections at all, only (fake) refraction.

    And I agree with Polynomia, Terrace Pond and Wide Terrace Pond have different shaders. The "normal" one has a lot brighter reflections and also renders a pronounced highlight from the sun while the wide one doesn't.
    I didn't have a crafted Terrace Pond Surface at hand, but from your screenshots it looks like the Wide Terrace pond and may just appear darker because there is no light geometry close below the surface.

    I'm still not sure what the water building blocks actually try to do. If it's an attempt to apply the screen space reflection (and refraction) of the lakes and oceans to dimension items, it didn't quite work.
    I still wonder if it would be possible for pond surfaces though...the mineral pools show that at least the screen space refractions can work. But reflections only work for limited viewing angles, so the issue of the reflection map as fallback not matching the sky projector still would be relevant.
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    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx3d View Post

    I'm still not sure what the water building blocks actually try to do. If it's an attempt to apply the screen space reflection (and refraction) of the lakes and oceans to dimension items, it didn't quite work.
    I'd honestly be totally fine with using Water blocks as actual water if only they didn't have the visible edges even when 100% matched together. This issue is what drives me away from using them as natural water especially with crafted ponds and their scaling. So far, water blocks are good for morphing but definitely not good for using as actual water (unless one block is somehow enough).
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