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Thread: The Last Straw and the first.

  1. #1
    Champion NightShift1's Avatar
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    Default The Last Straw and the first.

    I have had alot of things on hold lately do to many rl issue's, yet that's not the reason I am writing this. Today a close friend told me I should go look on feablight @ a dim ,... well I did and what I seen wasn't just upsetting it was with out asking or checking with others. This makes ten of my 48 dims that have been copied by the same person also the same person who copied lizzees winter dimension, and the same person who copied one of bara's cottages. And the list goes on , this same person has the top dimension in the greybriar dim list as well , " if you are reading this ,... I told you I would catch you and I did " . I won't be naming and shaming this person or having a convo with anyone other than Trion on the subject mater. For now all my dims all 48 are now permanently locked from the public until this gets delta with in a timely fashion. I know and understand there are alot more inportent things to chat about when it comes to dimensions yet keep this in mind , it's my time I spend doing what I do , and to only have someone copy it and place it on another shard to claim as their own just is enough. The first 9 this person copied I dint care to much about I was flattered each time to say the least yet when they copied the community dimension it was enough to make me say I quit. Yet I haven't and don't plan on it . What I will be doing is pushing real hard on Trion to change the dimension item list , It needs to be owner and perm viewed only , I don't just speak for myself I speak for many others who feal the same way I do yet with more emotion attatched. I was going to start the community dim part two this Friday it will now be permently on hold sorry to everyone who was looking forward to building. Plans for me and what's to come are , seeing this till the end , picking back up the Odin's Workshop , as well as hosting three dim non contests.

    Odintia

  2. #2
    Prophet of Telara
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    I think it's sad that you give up like that. You let that person win - when only his dimension is open, who will know it is not his/her work? People who know you, will know yours were there first, so - do you really care?

    And I agree there should be something done about copying. Trying to rebuild something is one thing, and not different from copying art which is done frequently (although usually they are marked as that, not as originals unless one wants to commit fraud), copying a whole dimension via addon is different and should be made impossible, unless they are from your own account...
    Dimensions on Brutwacht by Alliandre, Luisa, Alliendre, Kattima, Samrahia, Jaodya, Maegwynn, Guild "Stadtwache", Guild "Mules", Guild "Schlumpftastisch" - NEW: Schlumpfhausen-The Smurfs (Alli), owner guild Schlumpftastisch

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    Plane Walker DLPS's Avatar
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    So this person stealing the works of others without permission or credit is on NA and EU shards?

    I agree that to close yours also closes our chance to see the original work that belongs to you, and indeed gives whoever appropriated them without permission free reign to continue claiming ownership of the creative talent.

    Bella
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    Champion NightShift1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maegwynn View Post
    I think it's sad that you give up like that. You let that person win - when only his dimension is open, who will know it is not his/her work? People who know you, will know yours were there first, so - do you really care?

    And I agree there should be something done about copying. Trying to rebuild something is one thing, and not different from copying art which is done frequently (although usually they are marked as that, not as originals unless one wants to commit fraud), copying a whole dimension via addon is different and should be made impossible, unless they are from your own account...
    I didn't give up Alli I did the only thing I could do other than whine and do a rage post.
    Odintia Amymone Sagie Tantalos Odinscloth Odininchains Odinsbelt Odinstunic OdinsHelm

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    Champion NightShift1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLPS View Post
    So this person stealing the works of others without permission or credit is on NA and EU shards?

    I agree that to close yours also closes our chance to see the original work that belongs to you, and indeed gives whoever appropriated them without permission free reign to continue claiming ownership of the creative talent.

    Bella
    Yes correct one person is doing this what shocks me the most is who it is , I have spent the past 6 hours trying to understand why , and the answers I come up with are anything but nice. Its in Trion hands now.
    Odintia Amymone Sagie Tantalos Odinscloth Odininchains Odinsbelt Odinstunic OdinsHelm

    It has been Fun most of all a learning experience that i am sure will never end .
    Odin Tea Ah 2016.

  6. #6
    General of Telara
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    Wow, I don't know what to say. The cracked psychosis of someone to do that. With no effort!

    Sorry Night, I can't imagine how this feels. I sure Trion deals with this quickly and severely, as something like this could damage the community as a whole.

    Good luck on getting this resolved.

  7. #7
    Champion NightShift1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by swordkata View Post
    Wow, I don't know what to say. The cracked psychosis of someone to do that. With no effort!

    Sorry Night, I can't imagine how this feels. I sure Trion deals with this quickly and severely, as something like this could damage the community as a whole.

    Good luck on getting this resolved.
    Truth of it is the player won't get in trouble , I can explain . They haven't done anything wrong under the tos guidelines , as far as me thinking I have rights to something , well I know better. I will say this much if they try to copy the rest of my dims they will need lots of Rex and Plat , point being I cap all my dims not to mention the Rares ect.
    Odintia Amymone Sagie Tantalos Odinscloth Odininchains Odinsbelt Odinstunic OdinsHelm

    It has been Fun most of all a learning experience that i am sure will never end .
    Odin Tea Ah 2016.

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    I have always agreed the item list should be a choice whether people can see it or not OR only be able to hover and highlight one item at a time if players want to know what an item is - the original intention the Devs made this possible in the first place with 2.5.

    Dimension Addicts has a forum for anyone to share items, we can open a chat for this on Discord if the community wants, start a post here or players can mail each other in game and exchange emails for things they don't mind sharing etc - there are many solutions to keep supporting our generous community but fixing the item list needs priority.
    Last edited by Kiwi; 01-12-2016 at 08:58 AM. Reason: Added correct patch 2.5

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    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Naming and shaming isn't allowed on these forums (and yes I understand the reasons behind it), but it's allowed in any other sources.

    This is the second time I suggest making a list of dimension thieves on fansites and galleries so that people could be sure who is the original author when they tour.

    I also invite you to join Discord dimension channel to share your videos and events. The Discord link is in my signature, join in and share.
    Last edited by Laeti; 01-12-2016 at 09:47 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laeti View Post
    This is the second time I suggest making a list of dimension thieves on fansites and galleries so that people could be sure who is the original author when they tour.
    I don't think that should be up to anyone but those who own or created these platforms because it could easily be misused and is also time that needs to be spent monitoring something negative when time is so precious in the first place though reddit is probably best suited place already in place however you need to be prepared to either get no reaction or people reacting to you not the situation - have no attachment to the result which could make you feel worse not better so I don't recommend.

    I do hope with Laeti that we see you on Discord sharing your awesome video's and projects Odin.

    Everyone is welcome.
    Last edited by Kiwi; 01-12-2016 at 09:12 AM.

  11. #11
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwi View Post
    I don't think that should be up to anyone but those who own or created these platforms because it could easily be misused and is also time that needs to be spent monitoring something negative when time is so precious in the first place.
    It is, people who see their dims copied can mail the names@shards and their own dims to site owners so they could post it for everyone to see. I'm sure no one in the dim community would actually think that Odin copied someone else's dim (or any other well-known builder really). So they can be perfectly objective if say I mail a copy of my dim from another shard - they already know I'm the original author (not that anyone would copy mine lol, just as an example).

    Problem is, very few of us actually have dim-related sites with visitors, so not everyone whose dim was copied can share this info without being restricted with forum rules. And with those restrictions (which are perfectly reasonable, just not very helpful in this case) how can anyone new tell the thief? Of course if I see a copy of my favorite builder's work I'll be able to tell, but what about those who don't tour very often, or people from another region - they might not even know. It's not exactly shaming, it's only letting people get the credit they deserve.

    It is up to the site owners, I understand they might not have the time for it. But if a person copies one builder's work, it generally means they'd might as well copy someone else's.
    Last edited by Laeti; 01-12-2016 at 09:17 AM.
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  12. #12
    General of Telara
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    I have no clue what dimension we're talking about, but I really have to wonder why someone would waste thousands of platin on upgrades and dimension items to get a clone...

    And I already tried to explain in another thread that the item list is just a UI element that lists all items by name and category. It doesn't really help you in cloning a dimension, the culprit is that addons like Dimension Snapshots can get the details of all items withing drawing distance. No need to open the item list or select anything in it.

    Trion would have to restrict the Lua API instead. I'd suggest to limit the item information in a way that won't break all addons, like set rotation values to zero and round position values to say a 1m resolution so you can at least still locate it. Otherwise things like the dimension museums become a lot less useful to me, because without a waypoint I'd search for ages how that item that I never heard of looks like...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx3d View Post
    And I already tried to explain in another thread that the item list is just a UI element that lists all items by name and category. It doesn't really help you in cloning a dimension...
    You are right and wrong at the same time. Prior to 2.5 you could use Toolbox to copy items up to 240 as you say but with Dimension Tools we managed to increase this number and turn off the ability to copy sets in dimensions you had no permissions (I cannot remember how) HOWEVER the update in 2.5 overwrote the latter.

    If the Item list returned to the way it was prior to 2.5 you would be able to do the same that Kikimora did to protect copying complete builds now you have adopted her work (and magic carpet and toolbox creators) and DT's ability to copy more than Toolbox.

    I also think it is very easy to find out what an item is by asking in chats and also checking Dimension Addicts site and not a good reason at all for a solution not to be sought by Trion to this extent of devaluing someones hard work and effort however just not being able to highlight multiple items would save this hassle and Trion adding there own group rotation to their own UI if this effects add ons.
    Last edited by Kiwi; 01-12-2016 at 08:15 PM.

  14. #14
    Plane Walker Narielia's Avatar
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    There isn't anything Trion can do to stop this. There's also a lot of resources out there to help them figure out what items are used and how they're used.

    So if someone really wants to copy your work, they can.

    So, why doesn't Trion add a little header underneath the name of the dim?

    By default, the header can read [Originally Created By: Their Name]

    If you find that it's a copy, you can submit a ticket, and Trion can have "Their name" changed to "Your name". That would take all of 5 seconds to action.

    That's all I can see happening.

    At the end of the day, the company can't afford to alienate an entire group of its customers (you guys that are complaining) by not doing anything about it - they need you to keep investing your time and your money in to dimensions, but at the same time they can't stop people from building or copying anyone's dim either.

    So, I feel the only compromise to be had here is to give credit where it's due.

    Vis-a-vis; [Originally Created By: Name] Header. They can make it clickable too, so if they click your name in the header, they'll be taken to your dim as well to see.
    Last edited by Narielia; 01-12-2016 at 07:52 PM.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Narielia View Post
    There isn't anything Trion can do to stop this. There's also a lot of resources out there to help them figure out what items are used and how they're used...
    A creation date for UI is a good idea regardless but it doesn't really solve much in this regard and once more Trion can help because the item list was changed with 2.5 to help a player identify an item - it did not effect anything in game as far as the games capabilities go iirc.

    I think someone having to spend more time discovering information, figuring out whats in a build themselves or relying on clicking on items just just around them is a very good deterrant than just clicking on every item on an item list in a couple of minutes.

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