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Thread: Dimension Cloning

  1. #1
    RIFT Fan Site Operator DimensionDiva's Avatar
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    Default Dimension Cloning

    This week I saw 2 clones of other dimensions. I tour a lot and I've found clones before but never 2 in one week! I spoke with the original builders and neither one of them built the copies nor gave permission for them to be copied, so I know these are intentional clones, Most of the builders I know who've been copied in the past have shared their reactions with me -- they don't like having their work copied, they consider it stealing not "imitation is the sincerest form of flattery", they wish it hadn't happened, they wish it would stop, and so forth. We've discussed copying in the community before, but it's difficult to know, let alone prove, which morph or dimension was created first, so we've all just been ignoring it. I've mellowed about morphs being copied but outright cloning of entire dimensions (or large portions of a dimension) still seems so unfair to original builders. Maybe it's time to revisit this problem since the frequency is apparently increasing.

    To all of you who dream up your own ideas, collaborate on shared visions, and work on your concepts to produce your unique creations, you are awesome! Thanks for making touring so much fun ... and thanks for letting me vent!


    My wacky weird (and mostly old) dimensions are tagged (diva) on Wolfsbane, Zaviel,
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  2. #2
    Plane Touched Mals's Avatar
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    I suspect I know one of the ones you mean. It was a very precise copy in progress. The dim they are copying is one of the better made dimensions by a top builder. This builder was not contacted by the person doing the copying. I would be disappointed if they tried to claim it as their own in a competition. Competition judges tend to tour and most likely will spot a clone.

    If someone is wanting to clone a super good dim I would suggest they do two things:
    1. Talk to the owner before copying to get permission
    2. Give credit to the original creator in the dimension name
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  3. #3
    Plane Walker DLPS's Avatar
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    I will chime in on this, having experienced an exact copy of a vineyard a while ago. Whilst it may be on another shard, even across onto EU from an NA build or vice versa, there is still an etiquette that I believe should be adhered too. Ask permission, give credit where it is due. I only recently learnt that it is very easy to make a copy of features using toolbox. I didn't know about this and now realise how easy it is to copy what may take some folks many hours, days to create.

    I understand that when we open our dims up to the public it also means we are opening them up for our creations to be copied, but please, let us remember to be courteous to those who share these wonderful things.

    Bella
    Bellarosa ~ Dimensions Lovingly Created on Laethys - look for Bellarosa

  4. #4
    RIFT Fan Site Operator DimensionDiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mals View Post
    I suspect I know one of the ones you mean. It was a very precise copy in progress. The dim they are copying is one of the better made dimensions by a top builder. This builder was not contacted by the person doing the copying. I would be disappointed if they tried to claim it as their own in a competition. Competition judges tend to tour and most likely will spot a clone.

    If someone is wanting to clone a super good dim I would suggest they do two things:
    1. Talk to the owner before copying to get permission
    2. Give credit to the original creator in the dimension name
    Very good suggestions, Mals! Thank you.

    I have thought about this a lot lately and I can't think of many legitimate reasons for cloning somebody else's dimension. If we could only tour on our own clusters, I could see why somebody might think a dimension should exist on the other cluster (NA or EU), but we are free to tour everywhere so wouldn't it be better to suggest to the original builder to make their own clone on the other cluster? I cloned one of my own dimensions from NA onto EU just to share a joke over there. It was super easy ... maybe too easy. I think we all realize some people will just never police themselves. Perhaps the only way to prevent copying is for Trion to make it impossible for us to select items in dimensions that we don't own. But would we be willing to give up the ability to select an item simply to identify it? I use this frequently to identify items that have me stumped!. It would be a big sacrifice!

    My wacky weird (and mostly old) dimensions are tagged (diva) on Wolfsbane, Zaviel,
    Brutwacht, and Gelidra. I love to visit dimensions, so please invite me to see yours!

  5. #5
    RIFT Fan Site Operator DimensionDiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DLPS View Post
    I will chime in on this, having experienced an exact copy of a vineyard a while ago. Whilst it may be on another shard, even across onto EU from an NA build or vice versa, there is still an etiquette that I believe should be adhered too. Ask permission, give credit where it is due. I only recently learnt that it is very easy to make a copy of features using toolbox. I didn't know about this and now realise how easy it is to copy what may take some folks many hours, days to create.

    I understand that when we open our dims up to the public it also means we are opening them up for our creations to be copied, but please, let us remember to be courteous to those who share these wonderful things.

    Bella
    Thank you, Bella, you hit the nail on the head! It is too easy for an unethical person to clone an original dimension and take credit for hours, days, weeks, or months of hard work by the original builder. This is the part that elevates my blood pressure ... purposefully being uncaring and unfair to another builder.

    My wacky weird (and mostly old) dimensions are tagged (diva) on Wolfsbane, Zaviel,
    Brutwacht, and Gelidra. I love to visit dimensions, so please invite me to see yours!

  6. #6
    Ascendant Samuraiko's Avatar
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    This is why I asked Morticus to please create a permissions setting where we could remove the item list for visitors. Not being able to select everything and then copy it into the Toolbox should go a LONG way toward stomping on this.

    FYI - if you ever see someone copy one of my dims (Raelskye@Faeblight), please let me know.

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  7. #7
    RIFT Fan Site Operator DimensionDiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samuraiko View Post
    This is why I asked Morticus to please create a permissions setting where we could remove the item list for visitors. Not being able to select everything and then copy it into the Toolbox should go a LONG way toward stomping on this.

    FYI - if you ever see someone copy one of my dims (Raelskye@Faeblight), please let me know.
    Such a feature would be great. Thanks, Samuraiko!

    My wacky weird (and mostly old) dimensions are tagged (diva) on Wolfsbane, Zaviel,
    Brutwacht, and Gelidra. I love to visit dimensions, so please invite me to see yours!

  8. #8
    Rift Chaser polynomia's Avatar
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    I have tried having an entire dimension copied to another shard too.

    Sadly I haven't been able to get a hold of the person to ask them what possessed them to copy the entire thing. I would really like to know.

    If people ask me if they can copy stuff I have made I always say yes as I'm not fussed about sharing
    I'm still super proud that one of my strippers moved up in the world and became a model for a famous painter in another dimension ;)
    I also myself copied kollettes grand piano to Poly's crib, with his permission ofc ,

    But an entire dimension, and without permission, is not cool.

    An option to make it impossible for others to select items is a great idea. That way you can still let people you trust be able to select stuff.

  9. #9
    Rift Master Seyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DimensionDiva View Post
    Perhaps the only way to prevent copying is for Trion to make it impossible for us to select items in dimensions that we don't own. But would we be willing to give up the ability to select an item simply to identify it? I use this frequently to identify items that have me stumped!. It would be a big sacrifice!
    It has been requested before but I haven't seen any Dev response, the solution would be to leave the itemlist as is, and only disable multiselect (you know, when you hold down shift) in dimensions where you have no edit rights. That way you can still see what item you are looking at, but it would make copying not worth the hassle, (one item at a time, lol, easier to just build something on your own).

  10. #10
    Plane Touched Mals's Avatar
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    I think item list visibility is actually a good thing as it can help inspire builders. When selected with no edit rights it should just copy the item name and no other details. Maybe add an additional check box to allow item copy if the dimension build wants to allow it. That would solve the problem and give control to the dimension builder. Hopefully that would not be too hard to add to the game.
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  11. #11
    Ascendant Laeti's Avatar
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    I have never considered copying someone else's work a good thing. Even for the "appreciation of someone's creativity" - what kind of lame reason is that? If you admire someone's work, there's +1 button, forum section, dim sites, social media, dimension channels and in-game mail/tells to express your feelings. I am a huge fan of lots of builders here, I tour their dims, I tell them how amazing they are, I recommend their dims to others (not just newcomers), I would even level a toon to 10 just to give an additional +1, if the dimension and the builder impressed me so much. It has never occurred to me that it's okay to copy one of their builds to "show my appreciation", because this is just... well, the forum would beep me anyways.

    Yes, it is normal when you see someone's morph and you love it so much that you'd want to have it in your dim. It is also normal to approach the author and say hey, I loved that oven, can I use it in my build with some additions\tweaks? And I bet none of us would refuse. Altho I do think creating your own morphs is better, but it might be a solution for someone new or a person who is just not good with ovens. A permission is needed eitherway.

    Since we're not allowed to name'n'shame on these forums, I would suggest a section on dim sites where people could see the clones and the originals (especially if it is well known who made the original - it usually is. I for one would not suspect Bella of copying some noname's vineyard, if you know what I mean). If it's argueable, then let it be just the screenshots with a tip saying these dims look awfully similar, it's tbd which one's the original.

    Maybe it won't stop the thieves, but at least the interested part of the community will know their "heroes". Otherwise it's just a discussion, as informative as it can be.
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  12. #12
    Rift Chaser Zillaan's Avatar
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    Yes - this is definitely an issue.
    While it could be argued that once a Dim is made public, you no longer have control over that creation. Logically this is true, morally it is not.
    I have recently discussed adding a "wing" to my Museum project that includes player morphs, but this would just make it easier for unscrupulous people to copy those morphs. I think perhaps I should stick to just re-creating the morphs on Kits website that are "donated" for anyone to use.
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  13. #13
    Prophet of Telara Amielle's Avatar
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    I dont even use any tool addon, though i might find some idea very clever and use it in the future, i dont copy. I do everything old school '"by hand"

  14. #14
    Shadowlander Trelvania's Avatar
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    Oh gosh! I would never out right rip off another design, but would certainly try to find the builder to ask them how they did a thing. (I've seen like a jillion tower designs and houses that I want to know how people made without running into the ceiling going up stairs ) And to copy a complete dim? Gah! I have too many ideas in my head to even contemplate doing that. And for some reason in my mind copying a dim seems it would be more work. Bad enough to move a build to another location.
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  15. #15
    RIFT Fan Site Operator DimensionDiva's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seyler View Post
    It has been requested before but I haven't seen any Dev response, the solution would be to leave the itemlist as is, and only disable multiselect (you know, when you hold down shift) in dimensions where you have no edit rights. That way you can still see what item you are looking at, but it would make copying not worth the hassle, (one item at a time, lol, easier to just build something on your own).
    Great idea, Seyler! This would mean we could still have the ability to see single items when we are stumped!

    My wacky weird (and mostly old) dimensions are tagged (diva) on Wolfsbane, Zaviel,
    Brutwacht, and Gelidra. I love to visit dimensions, so please invite me to see yours!

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