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Thread: A question for my fellow dimensioners

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    Telaran KitennKaboodle's Avatar
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    Default A question for my fellow dimensioners

    For those of you who have seen six flags over moonshade, I am thinking of removing the stage and buffet and creating another ride up there? I would love to hear your opinions.

    Also a quick question. Someone almost completely made my tilt-a-whirl identically. Do I advise them to create their own version? Not say a word etc. I think it would be totally obvious to anyone that went in and I would like to give them a heads up, but am not sure how to do it without sounding like a complete *****.

    thanks for all who advise in advance!
    Dimensions 'used to be' cheaper than sims now I can't afford to buy any real furniture!

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Feendish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitennKaboodle View Post

    Someone almost completely made my tilt-a-whirl identically. Do I advise them to create their own version? Not say a word etc. I think it would be totally obvious to anyone that went in and I would like to give them a heads up, but am not sure how to do it without sounding like a complete *****.

    thanks for all who advise in advance!
    I think it's a pretty tricky situation, to be honest. People say imitation is the most sincere form of flattery, but it's not very pleasant to walk into a dimension unknowing and see a copy of your own work looking back at you.

    Most dimensioneers are pretty good about letting you know they like something and asking if you mind if they borrow the design, or ask to borrow it and modify it. When I'm asked, I always say yes. Those that don't ask, and just take, in my opinion, are thieves. However, our options are pretty limited. We don't hold any copyrights, we don't have patents, it's not like we can sue, and we don't hold ownership over anything we've created in a dimension. There have been episodes of entire dimensions being copied, down to the last detail, and the original designer has the option of either saying something and making a fuss without any backing from Rift personnel, or keeping quiet and fuming. How you choose to deal with it is entirely up to you. If you wanted to address the issue without seeming like a jerk, you might send the person a private message and ask them to modify it so that's not such an obvious copy. If that yields no results, any further action or inaction is entirely up to you.

    I apologize for the long reply, and I hope your issue is resolved.
    Dimensions on Greybriar and Zaviel


    Baradara@Greybriar

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    Champion Akhor's Avatar
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    Personally, I'm the type of person that it would bug me more if I didn't say something. I wouldn't mind someone copying my work, but I would be curious enough to ask if I was their inspiration. I would probably try a lighthearted joke about the "similarities" even if I thought it was an identical copy, just to play down the situation.

    This does bring up an interesting look at dimension etiquette. What do you do when you see something that inspires you? How much is it acceptable to copy without asking the person if they mind? I've never taken a whole morph and copied it identically but I do tend to talk to the owner if I'm getting a personal tour and mention if I like something and that I might use that idea. If I'm touring on my own and I saw something I really want to use I'd probably send a mail asking if they mind.

  4. #4
    Rift Disciple
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    Default Tricky Spot

    I am with Feendish. It is a very touchy subject when you come across someone who has blatantly copied your hard work. You could see if they are online and start a casual conversation with them about their dimension and "ask" them where they got the idea for it and see what they say. Then you can proceed from there. You can tell them they you are flattered that they copied you and give them additional ideas of what they can do to make it "look better". There are many times I will make something and go back later and realize I could have put a little more deco into it or changed one item for another etc.

    The problem is once we open out dimensions to the public, there are always going to people who will either "borrow" by way of telling you that they really like it and if you would mind if they used it or those who will blatantly "steal" something that you have done and pass it off as their work. I am always afraid when I tell people my ideas for specific dimensions that they may use my idea in their dimension. I have gone to such lengths as to keep a dimension i am building closed until i finish it, but that doesn't keep the "moochers" and "less artistic" from snagging pieces or whole dimensions from people. The best you can do is inform people that "Hey, I was the first one on the shard to make this, all the others you see that are identical, are just copies".

    Even though we can't copyright our dimensions, it still stinks that people will copy our works and pass it off as their own. I have been very fortunate to not have this situation placed in front of me. But myself on the other hand, would have no issue calling someone else out on deliberately copying my stuff and passing it off as their own. I spent a lot of time doing my dimensions and I will be damned if someone is gonna steal my stuff and pass it off as their own. I have had people ask me if they could use some of what I have or said that they really liked something but didn't want to use it because it was "my thing".

    It really is a fine line but I guess the one thing you would have to ask yourself is this: If this happened outside the game, would you be quite or would you speak up?

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    Shadowlander ZingyBerda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitennKaboodle View Post

    Someone almost completely made my tilt-a-whirl identically.
    The key word here is "almost completely" which means that you saw something nearly like yours but not exactly (that is, 100% identical).

    Being devil's advocate, just curious about how many objects are in the game that can create a "tilt-a-whirl"?

    If someone looks at a picture of a real tilt-a-whirl and tried to configure one out of existing objects, what are the chances of more than one person coming up with similar objects to create it? To create a tilt-a-whirl that is "almost completely ... identically" but not 100% identical?

    Inspiration from seeing another's work, I agree, would be nice if it could be acknowledged. But since everyone has access to the same exact objects the possibility of multiple individuals creating similar looking things, such as a "tilt-a-whirl" is much higher.

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    Ascendant Pixel Monkey's Avatar
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    someone blatantly ripped off 90% of my dimension then proceeded to become a serious contender for the recent comp.

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    Champion Zyonyx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZingyBerda View Post
    The key word here is "almost completely" which means that you saw something nearly like yours but not exactly (that is, 100% identical).

    Being devil's advocate, just curious about how many objects are in the game that can create a "tilt-a-whirl"?

    If someone looks at a picture of a real tilt-a-whirl and tried to configure one out of existing objects, what are the chances of more than one person coming up with similar objects to create it? To create a tilt-a-whirl that is "almost completely ... identically" but not 100% identical?

    Inspiration from seeing another's work, I agree, would be nice if it could be acknowledged. But since everyone has access to the same exact objects the possibility of multiple individuals creating similar looking things, such as a "tilt-a-whirl" is much higher.
    I was actually going to post something similar, but the fact that ZingyBerda posted it first may serve even better. Her (going by the avatar, so apologies if I got the gender wrong) post has some things that I intended to mention, such as the wording "almost completely identical", limited items available, and even referring to herself as devil's advocate. Had I followed up with my own posting, it would indeed look like I was parroting her, even though my thoughts were original.

    Who came up with the concept first? Who had that spark of inspiration that said Item X + Item Y would make a great Item Z? We don't know. It's indeed possible that Player A stole the concept from Player B. The reverse is also possible. Another possibility is that they came up with the idea at roughly the same time, yet one was able to build faster than the other. Yet another is that they both created the concept without ever knowing the other existed at the time. Without any evidence to support either the time the idea was conceived or built, any of the above could be true. What may seem like outright theft could be coincidence.

    What is an acceptable amount of similarity before it becomes thievery? If two people create identical wagon wheels with metal planks and poles, are they actually copies or the result of limited materials available? What if even though the size and shape are identical, one was made with metal and the other with wood? Is that still a copy?

    Once a dimension is set into the public domain, we lose all control over what happens. Even posting a pic here on the forums runs the risk of someone seeing a creation and copying it. What do we do? Do we turn off permissions and never allow our dimensions to be seen? We have to accept the fact that, unless or until there is either a way to "copyright" our works or give credit to others where due, everything we've built can be stolen. It's not a pleasant thought in the least, but there really isn't much we can do about it at the present.

    My advice is to use the forums to your advantage, and encourage others to do so. If you post pics here, then a date is attached to them. It's not foolproof, but it does lend a little more credibility over a build dispute when one can point to a date and time of creation as opposed to merely their word.

    There is also another option that some may not have considered, and that is to actively encourage others to copy what you've done. The site http://www.riftdimension.com/ has a section devoted to item morphing. Whether it's done on that site, here on the forums, or even a YouTube video, by creating a how-to on certain morphs, you're attaching your name to it.

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    Telaran
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    As a couple others have said,it is a touchy subject.

    Myself,I've just started with dimensions even though I played off and on since game launch.There are some very talented people in this community and I wouldn't direct copy someone's work on purpose.I would try and put my own spin on it,try to tweak it and make it my own.

    If there was an item that I wanted to replicate exactly,I would contact the person and discuss it.

    Some things are going to get copied,things like lamps,couches,tables,furniture.Certain things just work well and copying is inevitable.However copying a large item,such as a ride,house,village and so on,does cross the line imo.Especially if the person just acts like it's their own original idea.
    Last edited by Anagu; 07-15-2013 at 02:53 AM.

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Kitasia's Avatar
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    I for one absolutely love seeing stuff I created in anothers dim. When someone uses something I have, I see it like shopping. I have this cute pair of shoes and you want to know where I got them. So I tell you and you buy the same pair. Even if I dont tell you and your a complete stranger who now has the same pair. I dont get upset. I see it as hey I knew it was a nice pair.

    Take it as a complement they just want something nice in their dim. More then likely they didn't do it to upset you they did it because they loved it and wanted to try making it too.

  10. #10
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Feendish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyonyx View Post


    There is also another option that some may not have considered, and that is to actively encourage others to copy what you've done. The site http://www.riftdimension.com/ has a section devoted to item morphing. Whether it's done on that site, here on the forums, or even a YouTube video, by creating a how-to on certain morphs, you're attaching your name to it.
    There is also riftdimensionaddicts.com, with the section of saved Toolbox sets. I've put some sets up there, as have others. I've taken sets from there as well (thanks for the teddy bear, Kit). Sets are posted there with the full prior knowledge that someone else might use them, and even providing all the tools to recreate the object.

    As far as when does it go too far? That's a difficult question to answer. I don't get angry over things like lamps and planters and columns--even though while out touring I did walk into a dimension whose entry was so like Crowned by Stars I had to check to see which dimension I was actually in. Little pieces that anyone could come up with don't bother me in the slightest. Seeing attempts at recreating entire structural pieces, however, crosses a line for me personally. I like to flatter myself into thinking my structural style is very distinctive, and it bothers me most when I see that copied.
    Dimensions on Greybriar and Zaviel


    Baradara@Greybriar

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    RIFT Fan Site Operator Tamarama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zyonyx View Post
    Another possibility is that they came up with the idea at roughly the same time, yet one was able to build faster than the other. Yet another is that they both created the concept without ever knowing the other existed at the time.
    This, so much this. I've had this type of syncronicity happen to me, where I know I've dreamed it up in my head, built it, gone on a dimension tour and 15 minutes later discovered the same thing in another dimension. It happens. Here's my take on it from January, this year.

    I've also been to dimensions and seen my work taken almost identically. I consider it a complement. I know how you feel, half of me is indignant while the other half is going "hey they wanted to copy my work? Wooo!"

    We could get upset over what we see as a theft or take the attitude that some people learn by copying, till they can do it themselves. The later gives me less stress.

    If you want to lay claim to an idea, best way to do so is post a thread with pictures here. Just make sure your idea is original and you haven't accidentally copied someone else That, too, is easy to do.

    Better Homes and Dimensions - A blog just for Dimensions.

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    Ascendant Agrona77's Avatar
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    OK here's my take on this whole copy subject.

    As you know, Feendish, I copied the toilets from your "Home Sweet Home" dimension, but told you immediately that I did so. Maybe I should have asked before I did it.

    Anyway, when I tour dimensions, I get inspired and I see how other people morph items. However, I then usually go back and try to put my own spin on things, use other items to create the same effect.

    The toilets in my Museum are the ONLY items I have ever 100% reproduced (as seen in the aforementioned dimension), because if I actually copied a large item or most of a dim, then it wouldn't be MY dimension anymore. It would be a cheap copy.

    Originality and imagination is why I work on dimensions. Now, maybe some people fail to have any vision and think it's ok to simply copy things. However, good etiquette would dictate that you advise the owner of your intention and/or mention what you did. But don't do it and just leave it at that.

    Now, if something "looks similar" but isn't 100% the same, I will give the owner the benefit of the doubt. Some items just have a limited number of ways in which they can be build. So, before you cry "copyright" and "plagiarism" I would get in touch with the owner and inquire if they have even seen your dimension, before they build their item.

    You know, great minds do think alike and it could happen, as others have said, that after looking at a picture of something, two people build something similar.

    Anyway, I'm all for sharing, but I hope that people use their own imagination and not blatantly copy huge areas/items.

    OMG I seriously have to go and change my toilet design now. I feel bad! LOL

    @ Tamarama: wait, so you invented the green spotted urn mugs? I use them in most of my dimensions! I feel they make perfect mugs! LOL I don't remember where I've seen those used as mugs first.
    Last edited by Agrona77; 07-15-2013 at 06:27 AM.

  13. #13
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Feendish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Agrona77 View Post
    OK here's my take on this whole copy subject.

    As you know, Feendish, I copied the toilets from your "Home Sweet Home" dimension, but told you immediately that I did so. Maybe I should have asked before I did it.

    Anyway, when I tour dimensions, I get inspired and I see how other people morph items. However, I then usually go back and try to put my own spin on things, use other items to create the same effect.

    The toilets in my Museum are the ONLY items I have ever 100% reproduced (as seen in the aforementioned dimension), because if I actually copied a large item or most of a dim, then it wouldn't be MY dimension anymore. It would be a cheap copy.

    Originality and imagination is why I work on dimensions. Now, maybe some people fail to have any vision and think it's ok to simply copy things. However, good etiquette would dictate that you advise the owner of your intention and/or mention what you did. But don't do it and just leave it at that.

    Now, if something "looks similar" but isn't 100% the same, I will give the owner the benefit of the doubt. Some items just have a limited number of ways in which they can be build. So, before you cry "copyright" and "plagiarism" I would get in touch with the owner and inquire if they have even seen your dimension, before they build their item.

    You know, great minds do think alike and it could happen, as others have said, that after looking at a picture of something, two people build something similar.

    Anyway, I'm all for sharing, but I hope that people use their own imagination and not blatantly copy huge areas/items.

    OMG I seriously have to go and change my toilet design now. I feel bad! LOL

    @ Tamarama: wait, so you invented the green spotted urn mugs? I use them in most of my dimensions! I feel they make perfect mugs! LOL I don't remember where I've seen those used as mugs first.
    Lol, like I said, I copied those toilets, from one of Valzen's wonderful dimensions. I just don't put that much thought into toilets. Or lamps, or things like that. When I see copies of something small that I made like a lamp, that actually makes me smile, because normally I am NOT good at small morphing. I call that taking over Telara, one lampshade at a time, muahahaha. But there are other things that we get an emotional investment in, and take pride in and want to take ownership of, and those are the things people get upset to see borrowed.

    I fully agree with Radish's thoughts on synchronicity, because it happens too many times. The items are limited enough that there are only so many ways they can be twisted and turned and manipulated into other pieces that more than one person is bound to come up with a twin or something else very similar. But we're all different, and we all see things from different perspectives, so what one might see as a compliment, another will see as theft of intellectual property.
    Dimensions on Greybriar and Zaviel


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  14. #14
    General of Telara Jaedor's Avatar
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    Not sure there is much to add to the words of wisdom from others. I can relate to the question, as it is disconcerting to walk into someone else's dimension and see an exact or almost exact copy of something you made; it's definitely a mixed bag of emotions and the pleasure you might have gotten from offering it to someone who asked is kind of stripped away.

    As I've mentioned to a couple others who have raised this question, the only way to put your "stamp" of originality on it is to post pictures on a forum or blog, or offer up the saved item set on one of the toolbox support sites.
    The Road Less Traveled, Hypnotique, Hero's Quest: Belly of the Beast, Avalon, Doubleohhseven's Avatar v2.0, Promenade Penthouse, Hero's Quest: Sleeping Beauty, Mabhe's Quadradream, Everwinter, Karthan Paradise, Halls of Intoxication, Court of Shadows, Dreamscapes, Lost in Wonderland, Hero’s Quest: Hidden Canyon, Bywater, Sanguine Summer
    Greybriar Dimension Geek

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    Telaran xombii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KitennKaboodle View Post
    For those of you who have seen six flags over moonshade, I am thinking of removing the stage and buffet and creating another ride up there? I would love to hear your opinions.

    Also a quick question. Someone almost completely made my tilt-a-whirl identically. Do I advise them to create their own version? Not say a word etc. I think it would be totally obvious to anyone that went in and I would like to give them a heads up, but am not sure how to do it without sounding like a complete *****.

    thanks for all who advise in advance!
    Where are your dims? I'd love to come visit sometime on whichever shard you're on.

    I've not thought of how I'd feel if someone copied a dim item of mine. I don't like confrontation so I don't know that I'd say anything, but I feel like not saying anything would imply to others that taking my designs is ok.
    I think I'd be ok with someone taking a design I made if they gave me a personal tour of their dim when its done, or at least asked if I minded. As Zingy said, it could be that you guys both wanted to make tilt-a-whirls and came up with similar items to achieve the look. Maybe you've found a new morphing friend!

    This is where I think a method of note-making in dims would be awesome to have, then I could lay it down somewhere and give my credits where credit is due and people will feel like their idea is still theirs.

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