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Thread: New Item Price Feedback

  1. #16
    Rift Master Maddori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddori View Post

    -I would pay the asking price for the Magitech Solar System looking thing (forgot the name sorry) That thing is awesome, and a prime example of an amazing item that should be that expensive. There are other items in that price range and above though that are too expensive and not nearly as much bang for your buck.

    Ok, it's Magitech Orrery. And I hate to go back on my word, but it turns out I wouldn't pay that much plat for it. It costs 4800pp or 1700 credits. I might be willing to pay half that plat cost. I would pay that credit price, but not without some debate with myself. I would buy it without question in the 1000 credit range.
    Last edited by Maddori; 05-30-2013 at 11:06 AM.
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  2. #17
    Plane Touched Caelthas's Avatar
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    I'll once again put in the caveat that my opinion will be determined by the *value* of plat post F2P going live. The argument right now is pricing versus our current economy. Until we have a clear understanding of how wealth balances, then for the most part all of this is academic.

    However...
    The cost of the ready made stairs are significantly steeper than the cost of the live-game built stairs we did. However, depending on which version of that house's stairs we used, we save anywhere from ten to -forty- items.
    When I first started building dimensions, I loved stairs despite the amount of time it took to craft them. Once I saw how much item cap space I was losing to them, that changed. "However, depending on which version of that house's stairs we used, we save anywhere from ten to -forty- items." Yeah, I saved that item cap too by making ramps, and two planks cost a helluva lot less than 40 plat... Do I think a staircase should cost 4 gold? No. But 40p? Pfffffffffft. Maybe 4p. (Again, I don't know what 4p will actually be worth post live... so again, ALL of my argument is that Trion needs to *seriously* lower costs on dimensions UNLESS we are able to make plat as easily as getting wet in a rainstorm.)

    That's not even getting into the item count saved with premade buildings, though I know they are not necessarily something I would go with, the potential for -one- item buildings is great.
    Concur. However... a larger dimension can be bought for 300p... a single dwelling should cost the same?

    I don't mind if the new stuff costs more, but not hundreds or thousands of times more than existing comparative items. I shouldn't need to be <insert long line of expletives here> Rockerfeller to make a mid-sized dimension.

    The point comes down to this: If you're a semi-active player (due to life/work schedules), and you put in some effort to making in-game wealth (without being a gold farmer), then it's my contention you should be able to build just about whatever you want. If you invest 10hrs a week to daily's and farming, that should be enough. You shouldn't be restricted to 3 or 4 dimensions a year because it takes you that $(*#$ long to earn the plat to afford just those.

    Continually, the best dimensions being done that best advertise this aspect of the game, both for it's creativity and it's possibilities, are being made by people who make dimension after dimension. I'm simply asking Trion not to stomp on their best and brightest by out-pricing their player base. If those same players can't keep churning out great dimensions due to strangling costs, I think it hurts Trion's cause more than helps it...

    Let's look at it from one different angle... what if they jacked up soul repair by equal price increases to what we're seeing in dimension items? A plain wood plank costs 2g... the same thing but painted costs 2p40g... 120 times the price of the plain. I agree, painted should cost a *bit* more, but come on... they DO serve the exact same function. So what if they increased the cost of soul repair commensurately? If it costs say, 1p now per death? What if it cost 120p per death? What do you think you'd be hearing from the raiding community right now? How could they possible farm enough to afford constantly wiping on new content (unless, as said before, plat becomes as easy to gain as getting wet in a rain storm)?
    My point is that the very real item consolidation that can occur does, at least to me, help justify their cost.
    Agree, but it doesn't justify percentage markups or hundreds or thousands unless we have way more plat
    Just something to consider.
    I did, and I'm still *very* worried that after F2P I'll no longer be able to afford to do this anymore. I hope I'm wrong.
    Last edited by Caelthas; 05-30-2013 at 11:54 AM.

  3. #18
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    [QUOTE=Caelthas;4266218]
    [snip]
    /QUOTE]

    All valid points and concerns, ones that I generally share. Especially about the value of plat moving forward. If sustainable inflation occurs from 2.3 then we could be fine. Until we know, though, I share your trepidation.

    That much said, a couple things:

    A 300p building is actually a good deal, in my opinion. Let's say you buy a dimension for 300, and it's empty. Well, you can spend plat and item count making a building; which I fully support and we have certainly done several times. Or you can spend 300 for a ready made building that only takes one item cost, and can be scaled to your needs, and offer up a whole new option to build in. Or, if your dimension had buildings already, you can add more to them: again for a low item cost.

    300p for a building is too high? Well, yes. And no. Take a look at Contractual Obligations. That has a solid 200p in just wood flooring and walls, because it used bookcases in new ways. So...cost can really vary depending on construction material. With a building you're trading some freedom of design for item count and ease of building.

    As far as how much money dimension builders have: that treads the often blurry line of play time and dedication and all that other stuff. For instance, I am -not- a hardcore player. I don't spend every hour of the day grinding for plat or gear - but I rarely know what it is like to be below a few thousand plat at any time; because I do send a portion of my play time on selling/trading/crafting etc. That is with my work (which follows me home often), paying the mortgage and being a single dad and all that. Do I get to play more than many? Sure. Do I get to play less than many? Absolutely. I've just found what works for me.

    By my standards, a few hundred plat isn't the end of the world. To others it is an exorbitant cost; and neither of us are doing something wrong. Trion has to find a balance to support all of us, from people who can only put a few hundred plat at a time out, to those crazies with tens of thousands.

    I do, wholeheartedly, agree however that the majority of average players (you and I) should be able to churn out dimensions relatively easily with the new items at costs that are fully sustainable to the average player.

    Unfortunately, what the average player can make varies wildly depending on what they apply their time to, and that makes this a difficult target.

    I imagine they also want a certain amount of "exclusivity awe" and, of course, to drive real money through their shop. *sigh*.

    Okay so long and rambly post over; the end result is that while I feel the prices of many items are too high; I don't think that all of them are overpriced when you factor in the overall benefits they yield.

  4. #19
    Rift Master Maddori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroMGA View Post

    A 300p building is actually a good deal, in my opinion. Let's say you buy a dimension for 300, and it's empty. Well, you can spend plat and item count making a building; which I fully support and we have certainly done several times. Or you can spend 300 for a ready made building that only takes one item cost, and can be scaled to your needs, and offer up a whole new option to build in. Or, if your dimension had buildings already, you can add more to them: again for a low item cost.

    300p for a building is too high? Well, yes. And no. Take a look at Contractual Obligations. That has a solid 200p in just wood flooring and walls, because it used bookcases in new ways. So...cost can really vary depending on construction material. With a building you're trading some freedom of design for item count and ease of building.
    I don't have too much of a problem with the houses being 300p on the high end, for the large houses. I think most have the issue with them being +300-600p on the high end.

    I think the small one room structures and tents would be reasonable at ~100plat give or take, and the larger taverns being 300p or so at most. However, I'll probably be spending real money for mid-range, credit affordable items like structures, so take my opinion lightly.

    The problem is when you have people who aren't willing to spend those credits, who want to continue playing with a sub as always, that can't afford the plat. That's when you lose customers, key members who've helped the community thrive, and potential dimension fanatics to come.

    So even if it's "logically reasonable," when either price makes playing less fun, we all lose. That's why we have to find the middle ground for both the sake of Trion and ourselves as players. I really don't think Trion wants to get plat out of the economy by ridding themselves of the player base. So, it's important we help them find prices that are more universally reasonable, and not just something a few dimension junkies would pay to get their fix.
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  5. #20
    Plane Touched Caelthas's Avatar
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    I don't have too much of a problem with the houses being 300p on the high end, for the large houses. I think most have the issue with them being +300-600p on the high end.
    I think the small one room structures and tents would be reasonable at ~100plat give or take, and the larger taverns being 300p or so at most.
    THIS.

    I don't beef them incorporating *premium* items that cost a ton for players willing to pay for exclusivity. It's just that IMO, it's not what I'm seeing. I agree 100% with the above statement, and am FedEx'ing a box of homemade cookies to Maddori for saying it. It is EXACTLY what I was thinking. I can see paying 3-400p for say, the inn that occupies the stonefield dimension. You're getting a monster home to decorate and paying a premium in plat to save on item count. But the small hovel in Faen's retreat? No way that should top 100p. I can't speak for others, but my instant motivation for smaller homes would be to make a village dimension... now we're talking about buying 3, 4, 8 or 12 of them? At 3-400p for wee 'lil shanties? Not so much.

    I will be the first to agree that my idea of a *premium exclusive item* will differ from others. Some players might be more than ok buying an item for say 5k plat or 1800 Rex when it's some cool looking little metal magitech orb thingywhatsits.... For me? Yeaaaaaah.... if I'm gonna drop that much scratch I want a PLANET to put in my sky.... So while I may not be the one shelling out the capital for those premium items, I don't necessarily think what I'm seeing on the store now really qualifies.

    There are a LOT of people that *dabble* in dimensions, just as there are far more casual raiders than hardcore raiders. The hardcore raiders lament endlessly about the simplification of difficulty and mechanics to appease the casual raiders. Well, the casual builders without a bunch of builds under their belt and hours of practice will be those most likely to be buying the houses as their *main* houses (I would think anyway; I'd expect most hardcore builders to still design their own structures for a number of reasons).

    How many of those casual builders will want pay that when they're getting a 250 sq ft bubble for 300 or 400p? Again, the caveat remains: If 300-400p *then* is the equivalent of 30-40p *now*, then again, the current argument is academic. But compared to what we're familiar with and used too, those are just too expensive. Maybe not for *one* build... but if you make a dimension every 3-4 weeks, it's entirely unsustainable.

  6. #21
    Plane Walker Pochi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelthas View Post
    I will be the first to agree that my idea of a *premium exclusive item* will differ from others. Some players might be more than ok buying an item for say 5k plat or 1800 Rex when it's some cool looking little metal magitech orb thingywhatsits.... For me? Yeaaaaaah.... if I'm gonna drop that much scratch I want a PLANET to put in my sky.... So while I may not be the one shelling out the capital for those premium items, I don't necessarily think what I'm seeing on the store now really qualifies.
    LOL OMG THIS!!!! And not just a planet, I want the frickin' Death Star! Fully operational of course! WITH Darth Vader included!
    Guild ~ Creative Outlet

  7. #22
    Plane Touched Caelthas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pochi View Post
    LOL OMG THIS!!!! And not just a planet, I want the frickin' Death Star! Fully operational of course! WITH Darth Vader included!
    That's no moon, it's Kumberlin's Space Station!

    Heh, glad you liked my take on a *premium* item =p

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroMGA View Post
    While I also feel the prices are too high, there are some things to consider.

    Expensive single items can replace entire sets of items for the same purpose. That has, in effect, a "value-added" appeal that makes the price easier to swallow, for me.

    An example: The stairs in Yemaya and mine's various iterations of House Ayachor/Warrior's Rest. The cost of the ready made stairs are significantly steeper than the cost of the live-game built stairs we did. However, depending on which version of that house's stairs we used, we save anywhere from ten to -forty- items.

    A gazebo? Anywhere from twelve to thirty. In our new Moonshade dim, the one we'd planned and dreamed about since Dimensions were first announced, some of our lighting is a amalgam of several light fixtures, resulting in each "individual" light being several. Some of the store lighting is exactly what we wanted to have, and would save us two to three items per light.

    That's not even getting into the item count saved with premade buildings, though I know they are not necessarily something I would go with, the potential for -one- item buildings is great.

    My point is that the very real item consolidation that can occur does, at least to me, help justify their cost. So while I might spend a thousand plat or two thousand on items, the item consolidation could be high enough to avoid having to spend -twice- that amount in doubling the dimension item count.

    Just something to consider.

    That much said, I'd still much prefer lower pricing :P
    With the big stuff, the buildings, and even some of the smaller but useful stuff (stairs, windows, doors), I think we are going to be stuck with fairly high prices, and for me, that's fine. Those kinds of things are really useful for item count, and look great. While I think they might be a bit much, as they are priced now, they aren't unreasonable. And I'd say the same about the building blocks. Sure, I'd love them to be cheaper, but they aren't so costly as to be unavailable now.

    Having said that, the remaining problem area for me is the landscaping stuff. Trees cost mostly in the 80 gold or below, but there are now some in the 800 plat range, I believe. that's 1000 times as much. Not 1000%, 1000 times. And trees aren't something you want one of, usually. Unless a tree is so big I can build a castle in the branches, I'm going to want 5-10. It took me that many Flowering Cherry Trees to convert the tower in Shoreward into something that looks vaguely tree-ish.

    Of course, given that I've got the most money in my guild (which isn't saying much, farming since the dim prices were announced has gotten me just above 1k plat), I might not be playing much regardless. While everyone in my guild is excited by the items, the prices have at least a few thinking it's time to move on...

  9. #24
    Plane Touched Caelthas's Avatar
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    While everyone in my guild is excited by the items, the prices have at least a few thinking it's time to move on...
    Seconded.

    Those kinds of things are really useful for item count, and look great. While I think they might be a bit much, as they are priced now, they aren't unreasonable. And I'd say the same about the building blocks.
    It's not the individual price that's the issue. It's the big picture. Example: Say I make a nice big 3 floor house (now that we can with increased item counts for HUGE price gouge). Just look at *some* of that cost...

    60p- 1 set corner stairs, 1 set long stairs, 1 set short stairs
    150p- 15 windows/frames at 10p avg ea
    300p- 20 walls at 15p avg ea
    27p- 3 doors and 3 door frames
    225p- 15 pieces of new flooring at 15p avg ea
    160p- 8 pieces of roofing at 20p avg ea
    96p- 4 carpets

    Now you've spent 4475p to unlock a full 2k item count dimension You've spent 1000p more for only 68 items... and (as these are all listed as building blocks!) you've *almost* got a completed structure (maybe), without even having started decorating and have 1932 items left to place... while being out already 5500p.... for ONE dimension....

    And some of us build them at a rate faster than one dimension per month... how many people do you know that farm 7-10k plat per month? This is what I'm saying. If these prices go live, we better be making a whooooooole lot more plat to make up for it, otherwise they just outpriced players like me, let alone made it so prohibitively expensive it's unlikely any new players would do anything else but fiddle with their free starter dimensions.

    I love, LOVE the influx of new items. I think they're wonderful, overdue, and look great. I'm giddy at the ideas already churning in my head. I can't wait to get my hands on 'em and seeing what I can do.... expect currently I feel like Oliver Twist standing in the Rift Store saying "Please Sir, may I have some more"... because I won't even be able to buy my own lunch after paying for 1/16th of a new dimension. Until we know more about how this shakes out for cost and economy... yeah, I'm nervous.

  10. #25
    RIFT Fan Site Operator Feendish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddori View Post

    There are so many new items, I wonder what the most helpful approach to feedback on them would be.

    The things I would pay for in either plat or credits at their current prices:
    -Most the building blocks.(Floors and stairs are still a wee bit high in plat) I might be alone on this, but I don't mind paying cash for these if I get plat strapped. 1 cent items I'll probably get myself into trouble on. I can respect others who aren't as frivolous as I am with their cash, though.

    -I would pay cash for the dimension item count increases. I would easily pay up to 750 credits, maybe more. If I were better at making plat, I would pay the current asking price..but I'm not so these will be almost impossible for me to obtain in game.

    -Some of the houses I would buy...some are still too expensive for me.

    -I think the prices on the dimensions themselves (other than the 5th tier increase) are good.

    -I would pay the asking price for the Magitech Solar System looking thing (forgot the name sorry) That thing is awesome, and a prime example of an amazing item that should be that expensive. There are other items in that price range and above though that are too expensive and not nearly as much bang for your buck.

    I'm sure there are other things and services I would pay for, but at the current prices, everything I haven't listed is still too expensive to me. Again, this is just my personal feedback, and I tend to be more willing to spend money than plat than most people I know. But I plan on interchanging the two whenever I'm too low on one or the other. Hope this helps.
    I'm with you on this, Maddori. At almost 5k plat, the Orrery is a bit rich for my blood in game (and Orphiel's telescope, which makes me drool), but I would almost certainly pay real money for this if it were reduced somewhat.

    I would be willing to spend real money on many of these things, number one being the item count. I like to think I'm pretty decent at making plat, but I don't want that to become the only thing I do, and become able to build only when I've gathered a hoard (which I thought was the reason for pricing things so high in the first place?).

    For myself, since I prefer to build from scratch and I don't see that changing no matter how much I'm saved on the item count, I haven't really paid too much attention to the building costs--except for the tents. I do like the tents, and many of them are frightfully overpriced.

    But the landscaping...I like trees and flowers and bushes and oh, my! What a selection there is to choose from now! Yet there is no way that something like the Temple of Spring or the Hanging Garden could be reproduced without breaking the virtual bank (granted, the Overgrown Ember Isle Garden still costs only the time required to fish them up). Granted, many of the new trees are enormous. HUGE. But not huge enough to make it worth an investment of over 1k plat.
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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maddori View Post
    I don't have too much of a problem with the houses being 300p on the high end, for the large houses. I think most have the issue with them being +300-600p on the high end.

    I think the small one room structures and tents would be reasonable at ~100plat give or take, and the larger taverns being 300p or so at most. However, I'll probably be spending real money for mid-range, credit affordable items like structures, so take my opinion lightly.

    The problem is when you have people who aren't willing to spend those credits, who want to continue playing with a sub as always, that can't afford the plat. That's when you lose customers, key members who've helped the community thrive, and potential dimension fanatics to come.

    So even if it's "logically reasonable," when either price makes playing less fun, we all lose. That's why we have to find the middle ground for both the sake of Trion and ourselves as players. I really don't think Trion wants to get plat out of the economy by ridding themselves of the player base. So, it's important we help them find prices that are more universally reasonable, and not just something a few dimension junkies would pay to get their fix.
    well maddori ya know ill build ya any type of house ya need )just get me the items

  12. #27
    Plane Walker Aesha's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelthas View Post
    Seconded.



    It's not the individual price that's the issue. It's the big picture. Example: Say I make a nice big 3 floor house (now that we can with increased item counts for HUGE price gouge). Just look at *some* of that cost...

    60p- 1 set corner stairs, 1 set long stairs, 1 set short stairs
    150p- 15 windows/frames at 10p avg ea
    300p- 20 walls at 15p avg ea
    27p- 3 doors and 3 door frames
    225p- 15 pieces of new flooring at 15p avg ea
    160p- 8 pieces of roofing at 20p avg ea
    96p- 4 carpets

    Now you've spent 4475p to unlock a full 2k item count dimension You've spent 1000p more for only 68 items... and (as these are all listed as building blocks!) you've *almost* got a completed structure (maybe), without even having started decorating and have 1932 items left to place... while being out already 5500p.... for ONE dimension....

    And some of us build them at a rate faster than one dimension per month... how many people do you know that farm 7-10k plat per month? This is what I'm saying. If these prices go live, we better be making a whooooooole lot more plat to make up for it, otherwise they just outpriced players like me, let alone made it so prohibitively expensive it's unlikely any new players would do anything else but fiddle with their free starter dimensions.

    I love, LOVE the influx of new items. I think they're wonderful, overdue, and look great. I'm giddy at the ideas already churning in my head. I can't wait to get my hands on 'em and seeing what I can do.... expect currently I feel like Oliver Twist standing in the Rift Store saying "Please Sir, may I have some more"... because I won't even be able to buy my own lunch after paying for 1/16th of a new dimension. Until we know more about how this shakes out for cost and economy... yeah, I'm nervous.
    100% agree.. and so good, I just had to sig quote part of it... ;)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caelthas View Post
    I feel like Oliver Twist standing in the Rift Store saying "Please Sir, may I have some more"... because I won't even be able to buy my own lunch after paying for 1/16th of a new dimension.

  13. #28
    Ascendant Charlice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZeroMGA View Post
    While I also feel the prices are too high, there are some things to consider.

    Expensive single items can replace entire sets of items for the same purpose. That has, in effect, a "value-added" appeal that makes the price easier to swallow, for me.
    I just read this and instantly thought of the mushroom I purchased last night on PTS. I think it was either 75 or 84 plat.
    Even at full size it was small. Really small.

    It just makes me wonder how they price things. Sure the mushroom was nice but you, well I, don't just buy one TINY mushroom. Meh, it's just something else I won't have, if it stays that price.

    The pricing still makes no sense at all to me when comparing different items, but, it is constantly changing on PTS so I'll just wait and see.


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  14. #29
    Champion Akhor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreamshifter View Post
    With the big stuff, the buildings, and even some of the smaller but useful stuff (stairs, windows, doors), I think we are going to be stuck with fairly high prices, and for me, that's fine. Those kinds of things are really useful for item count, and look great. While I think they might be a bit much, as they are priced now, they aren't unreasonable. And I'd say the same about the building blocks. Sure, I'd love them to be cheaper, but they aren't so costly as to be unavailable now.

    Having said that, the remaining problem area for me is the landscaping stuff. Trees cost mostly in the 80 gold or below, but there are now some in the 800 plat range, I believe. that's 1000 times as much. Not 1000%, 1000 times. And trees aren't something you want one of, usually. Unless a tree is so big I can build a castle in the branches, I'm going to want 5-10. It took me that many Flowering Cherry Trees to convert the tower in Shoreward into something that looks vaguely tree-ish.

    Of course, given that I've got the most money in my guild (which isn't saying much, farming since the dim prices were announced has gotten me just above 1k plat), I might not be playing much regardless. While everyone in my guild is excited by the items, the prices have at least a few thinking it's time to move on...
    I think paying more for an item that saves 3 or so is worth a little more... but when a single snowy fern costs 12p and I want to buy the trio to save item count it jumps to 45p, that is just too high overall. Even with the trios I need 5 to get nice patches of ground cover. So if they're considering more items to reduce the prices on landscaping should definitely be next in my opinion.

    As far as how to price big ticket items, I have NEVER had more than 600p at once, and when I got it I spent it all in one day. I wasn't sure if I'd ever be able to afford the 1000p mount but I'm preparing myself to try to make as much plat as I can for my dimensions. So for me to save enough money to get a few canopies for my giant tree house I'm making I'd have to stop spending and save up a LOT for LONG time. In that same dimension I'd like a hedge maze, had some ideas but threw them all out the window when I saw the hedge "walls"... if only they weren't 120p. Seriously, who is going to buy only ONE of those???
    Last edited by Akhor; 05-30-2013 at 08:35 PM.

  15. #30
    Plane Touched Caelthas's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Khadra View Post
    100% agree.. and so good, I just had to sig quote part of it... ;)
    That was so awesome I just did a google scouring of the interwebs looking for a Rift Achievement Generator so I could make a "Sig-Quoted" Achievement, worth 50 points and the phrase "When one's words become Gospel".... apparently my geek level rises in equal proportion to my tiredness after working a grave shift... <yawn>.

    Srsly, that's awesome... lol. Thx for the honor for as long as it lasts =p

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