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Thread: Warrior Soul tweak/buff suggestion thread

  1. #1
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    Default Warrior Soul tweak/buff suggestion thread

    Hey guys,

    I was replying to one of the other threads and thought I might just make a thread with my suggestions to tweak some of the warrior dps souls. Please add any suggestions you have or shoot mine down in flames but be nice and cuddly:

    A note on the eternal weapon proc:
    It is quite difficult to get the eternal weapon to proc outside of a few specs: 61 Tempest, the Overlord spec and 61 Paragon if you take some champ or other souls where you can spam some ogcd things. For 61 Warlord (not using legendary breaking blow) the only way I have found to do it is with again spamming marks or using some riftblade finishers. RB is just a no go. Its mastery "Energy reserves" for the extra avater also gives energy regen which makes it impossible. Even without this you still can't get low enough to proc without shennanigans.
    The proc itself is weird. Over the years with different warrior devs, they have tried to solve or help with energy issues to the point now where it is very difficult in certain specs to get starved and use the benefit of the weapon.
    Using a spec that can't get the bloomin weapon to proc is a real issue. I suggest we look at the buff (and prolly all class ones to be honest). Change it to an on use or allows us to use some ability like a new attack that does something I dunno. If you have the time it could affect each soul differently.

    So anyway....

    Paragon
    This soul needs just a bit of numbers buff to be competitive I believe and perhaps one or two tweaks:
    • Increase the damage on some of the deep talents in the tree such as "swift finesse" or "precise strikes"
    • Increase the damage on flurry. I think this ability should be a dps gain rather than just a dc tool. It used to be the 61 talent and was kinda cooll to go all windmill on a single target. We have grasp the horizon for disconnects so let's do something fun with this.
    • Perhaps buff unleashed to 6% AP
    • Remove sweeping blades and add in an execute style finisher or perhaps a cd based aoe. Could be Path of the hurricane or anything to be honest. This skill is crap. I think it was Allion that brought it in or maybe Vladd and think they knew it was crap but we didn't have time to sort it.
    • I am not sure but I think using final blessing might be a dps loss due to legendary rising waterfall?

    RiftBlade
    Riftblade was very strong at the start of the expansion. This was not because of the overall power of the soul but due to it taking advantage of a very overpowered legendary in Tempest, namely "shock pulse". This legendary popped up the soul and hid how poor it actually performed without it in my view:
    • Riftblade needs Attack power boosts in the tree somewhere. I suggest changing either "elemental flux" (and baking in that talent somewhere else), "burning blood" or "elemental precision" (again baking its effect in somewhere else.
    • Change Rift strike to increase AP or AP/weapon damage rather than straight non-elemental damage
    • Allow burst synergy to force crits or have that functionality in somewhere. This could be too strong but an idea.
    • Maybe buff "intensify" to 10% for either or both of the values
    • increase "rift strike" base damage by perhaps 50%
    • Clarify whether elemental precision is armour pen as well or just elemental resists (if this talent is changed as I suggested previously)
    • buff planar blade to 15-20%

    Warlord
    While the latest buff is welcome and I think we are going in the right direction I think Warlord still needs some looking at for general quality of life and for it to be a competitive dps spec in raids.
    • Piercing Thrust needs to hit harder. This is a general numbers thing to make it competitive. Currently you can go champ legendary and use wave of steel instead to do a lot higher dps if you wish which doesn't feel right.
    • Certain abilities such as decisive strike and king of the hill feel a little redundant. Koth provides a buff to piercing but with the quick death procs you are hardly touching these abilties. Perhaps change Decisive strike to reduce armour or increases damage of piercing strike on the target making it a decisive strike or increase the buff on King of the hill and maybe do something else with decisive.
    • The 51 talent seems somewhat out of place because of the above point. This skill was brought in back in the day to help Warlord have some Burst. Sadly I can't see why you would be spamming decisive or King of the hill in any situation. Perhaps changing it to give you a max crit buff for a few attacks or armour penetration or bring back the armour pen aura warlord use to have
    • Swapping how backhand and arterial strike proc would be great. Arterial strike procs often, usually well before the dot runs out. Changing it so backhand procs off of a critical hit instead would be awesome as its just up front damage that is never wasted due to this clipping.
    • Sneak path of the hurrricane into the spec somehow and don't tell Vladd.

    What are everyone elses ideas?

    P.S. I know I left out Reaver, BM and Champ. I might add some thoughts for those later.
    Last edited by Balidin; 07-29-2017 at 08:03 AM.

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    Well, don't play any role what they do. Buff us, nerf others etc. It only can get better. At the moment wer are the worst dps, the worst tank, the worst healer and the worst support. Can only go up .

    Arbosch Bloodforge

  3. #3
    Plane Walker Sahtiaro's Avatar
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    All im gonna say is that I wish Paragon would be strong spec again...its the most dope warrior spec with all the button mashing that comes with it!
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  4. #4
    Prophet of Telara Hepatits's Avatar
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    It is quite difficult to get the eternal weapon to proc outside of a few specs: 61 Tempest, the Overlord spec and 61 Paragon if you take some champ or other souls where you can spam some ogcd things.

    ....and the moment you mentor down and your proc doesn't work you're permanently mana starved in these specs unless you remember to change your masteries.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hepatits View Post
    ....and the moment you mentor down and your proc doesn't work you're permanently mana starved in these specs unless you remember to change your masteries.
    Obviously, this will come as a dps loss. But should cut back on power problems.

    Assuming no time to swap Masteries...

    Tempest: During Wavelength, use LT for regen. During filler, exchange Skyfall/Soul Sickness/DC (depending on number of enemies) for Storm Torrent.

    Paragon: Remove Grasping the Horizon from yer main spam (since it has 95% uptime, i imagine people keep it there), full channel Flurry on CD after the first block.

    Overlord: Dial back on spamming Mark, exchange every other BB with Mighty Blow (MB hits harder than WoS if WoS is not preceded by a Warlord finisher. However, WoS does still take less power)... and if needed, offset using PV until power is lower.

    Alternatively, carry around Power pots.
    Last edited by Xethx; 08-01-2017 at 04:17 AM.

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara Hepatits's Avatar
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    True, all those are viable switches. If there was a toggle key for masteries instead of bringing up the window that'd be cool. Little QoL changes. Not sure how it would be implemented. Probably new CLI entries.
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  7. #7
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    Thinking a bit about it here's my view of the warrior souls and some thoughts on them:

    Tempest:
    • (very) strong burst, when the crits align, mainly with LT+Arc+SO buffed CP/DP;
    • because of SO legendary and overal structure of LT + Arc there is quite a big discrepancy in dps if CP/DP crit or not;
    • poor dps outside of burst;
    • poor target swapping, especially when targets die fast, because of dots and preload neded to fully trigger CP/DP burst;
    • no longer uses the 3 AP - finisher system because Skyfall's damage is so low;
    • one of the few specs that manages to starve itself for the Eternal Weapon;
    • seems to be falling behind other ranged/diconnect specs.
    Ideas:
    • increase the damage of normal Skyfall and builders (Delayed Pulse, Dual Pulse, Lightning/Storm Torrent, ...) and possibly DoTs to up the non WL portion of the dps and thus overal dps without boosting the burst;


    Reaver:
    • the top two variations require you to be melee so it's no longer really a ranged spec;
    • the dps of it is lagging quite behind tempest, not to mention other ranged/disconnect/cleaving specs;
    • its cleave has been reduced too much to fulfill a role of a cleave dps;
    • the tallent Decaying Defenses still does not work;
    • Flesh Rot and Necrotic Wounds with Plague Bringer on get flagged as AoE as expected while Soul Sickness does not;
    • Dire Corruption is not flagged as AoE skill and probably should be (not affected by Brutish Crystal becuase of it for example);
    • Dire Corruption tooltip is still not showing correct damage done by skill and the buff shows wrong duration with legendary SoD;
    • tooltip for DoTs are showing wrong damage after the first hit.
    Ideas:
    • fix Decaying defenses and DoT flags;
    • increase its damage overall, either via upped talents higher up (Fester for example) or via skill famage increase;
    • make Explosive Infestation apply Fester to all targets hit instead of just main target;
    • introduce a better way for starving out for Eternal Weapon than putting all possible oGcD abilities on spam.

    Paragon:
    • because of physical resistance vs non-physical one on lvl 70+ mobs it will lag behind in comparisson by default (if not properly taken into account);
    • it already has too many oGCD abilities for its own good and that's not counting the ones used to try and starve (too much aiblity lag);
    • on its own it can not starve, or it takes way too long to be of any use;
    • the legendaries truned it more into sustained dps from burst that it was and almost fully ranged (20m);
    • changing it into 9s blocks compared to previous 15s ones means Double Jeopardy can't be maintained.
    Ideas:
    • increase Double Jeopardy tallent to 9s or more;
    • make legendary Rissing Watterfall apply same buff to Final Blessing;
    • increase its damage overal via talents like Strike Like Iron, skills like Shifting Blades, legendary Rising Watterfall proc chance and it's damage, and so on ... ;
    • when increasing its damage be sure to reduce it for PvP.
    Riftblade:
    • at the moment this soul is completely usless and needs a thorough rework;
    • talents among other things prevent it to ever get starved for Eternal Weapon;
    • the discrepancy when using 2h vs 1h has to be resolved;
    • need a boost to its damage overall, either via talents, legendaries or skills themselves.

    Warlord:
    • because of physical resistance vs non-physical one on lvl 70+ mobs it will lag behind in comparisson by default (if not properly taken into account);
    • recently recieved a small damage boost but still too small to be viable;
    • suffers from AoE damage skills that have their range center to center and thus can not hit some mobs/bosses;
    • it needs better ability to starve itself for Eternal Weapon (since you can not take 4 legendaries);
    • with The Quick Death legendary change the whole structure of dps has changed for the spec and some talents or buffs need to be looked at or relocated to other skills as they barely surve any purpose now;
    • an example of above mentioned changes would be Battlefield Expierience, it make very little sense now with the recent changes and especially power reduction it prowides.
    Ideas:
    • rework Battlefield Experience to perhaps some %damage buff while it lasts or something else;
    • oGCD abilities shouldn't eat Everything is a Weapon buff, especially non-damage ones;
    • increase Piercing Trust and Decisive Strike damage;
    • overall damage increase via talents/self buffs.
    Champion:
    • because of physical resistance vs non-physical one on lvl 70+ mobs it will lag behind in comparisson by default (if not properly taken into account);
    • quite long build up for its dps since it is more of a sustain dps soul;
    • little use outside of Overlord and a few trash packs that tend to die very fast by other classes burst damage;
    • like some other AoE specs it seems to lag behind cleaving specs;
    • suffers the most from target range since its AoEs are center to center and Cornered Beast has 5m range;
    • needs to spam oGCD abilities like most other warrior souls to try and starve itself (which like mention before creates ability lags);
    • in a lot of cases crucial soul for (melee) ST dps because of legendary Punishing Blow, which is all sorts of wrong if you ask me.
    Ideas:
    • increase some AoE ability ranges;
    • if not above, rework the AoE targeting system in Rift to be "player to hitbox" instead of "player to center" ;
    • increase its AoE damage if it's meant to compete with cleaving souls, some talents higher in the tree for example.
    Beastmaster:
    • the worst of the three type A support by a large margin, feels like a type A and B hybrid that doesn't have a place;
    • does not provide the 2500 AP/SP buff like all other supports;
    • relies almost completely on its pet for dps;
    • has the worst 2nd dps cooldown of the A type supports;
    • Bond of Shelter still only increases Resistance by 27 instead of 1000;
    • suffers from target swapping and can not debuff targets at will with Twin Cuts, like other supports;
    • the only melee support with no disconnect ability;
    • pet does not benefit from Eternal Weapon and i think player's CP and possible other stats/buffs.
    Ideas:
    • fix Bond of Shelter;
    • add 2500 AP/SP buff;
    • rework or add a legendary buff for Command to Attack to be equivalent/similar to legendary Flaring Power or Wild Storms passive;
    • make pet skills be affected by all of player's stats/buffs/etc.

    This will be all for now. I'm sure i forgot some things and haven't said anything about heals nor tanks so far. When/if I think of more I'll add it up.

  8. #8
    Telaran
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    no mentions of how any dps spec that's not using warlord abilities still has to go warlord for legendary sergeant's orders?

    sergeant's order is a crutch to make warrior DPS not fall behind too much, and pretty much destroys the 3-soul options as you have to have warlord. also, makes warrior DPS spikey.

  9. #9
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    Interesting points there Jotunn, very detailed reply thank you.

    I completely agree about Riftblade, it is essentially dead in the water at the moment. the abilities that proc from auto attacks are in favour of dual wealding weapons and we have a two handed weapon. A weapon with 3.4 weapon swing does not make use of those talents. It may proc three times due to the 61 point legendary but still large gaps of time with no procs. That is just one part of the problem though as the soul is underpowered and was propped up early in the expansion by the shock pulse legendary.

    The eternal weapon proc is also a problem. It is quite confusing as to why this design was chosen. We have numerous souls that are nigh impossible to get it to proc with. Any dps soul that can't get it to proc is at a profound disadvantage. Riftblade can never proc it and warlord without can't either without spamming OGCDs from its own tree and champion. Reaver can't at all and paragon I have found can if I take legendary breaking blow. It's just messing and counter intuitive.

    To RagingT's point I am personally less worried about seargants order as I dislike all the low legendaries which do x damage each time you hit with them. I think its a bit lazy to be honest but that is just me. Seargants could be a problem I guess but It does have quite a long cd at least so isn't yet another thing you have to keep up on the boss.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Balidin View Post
    To RagingT's point I am personally less worried about seargants order as I dislike all the low legendaries which do x damage each time you hit with them. I think its a bit lazy to be honest but that is just me. Seargants could be a problem I guess but It does have quite a long cd at least so isn't yet another thing you have to keep up on the boss.
    We can change some stuff with the lower end/zero point legendaries for warrior maybe it will help.

    Change Leg Shock Pulse to increase your next 3 pulse damage by 50% (120%), non-Tempest abilities also has a chance to proc Shock Pulse's passive free damage.

    For Legendary Icy Burst, makes it so each proc of Icy Burst grants a stack of damage buff that increase all damage by 10% per stack for 20 seconds, up to 30%. The damage bonus is tripled for Riftblade abilities.

    See how these two small changes would work out then buff other legendaries if necessary.
    Last edited by FateStayNight; 08-31-2017 at 10:03 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FateStayNight View Post

    Change Leg Shock Pulse to increase your next 3 pulse damage by 50% (120%), non-Tempest abilities also has a chance to proc Shock Pulse's passive free damage.

    For Legendary Icy Burst, makes it so each proc of Icy Burst grants a stack of damage buff that increase all damage by 10% per stack for 20 seconds, up to 30%. The damage bonus is tripled for Riftblade abilities.
    Good ideas for sure man though I think the bonuses might be a bit too op

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by RagingT View Post
    no mentions of how any dps spec that's not using warlord abilities still has to go warlord for legendary sergeant's orders?

    sergeant's order is a crutch to make warrior DPS not fall behind too much, and pretty much destroys the 3-soul options as you have to have warlord. also, makes warrior DPS spikey.
    Iím glad this is being mentioned. Warriors have two main issues at the moment. Sergeantís Order and the Eternal proc. These need to be addressed before any other changes are made.

    Eternal Weapon
    There are some great suggestions in this thread, however we shouldnít be making changes to souls to work with an eternal weapon that will only be relevant for this eternal weapon. If a new eternal weapon is added to the game then all those changes become useless and a waste of time. The Eternal Proc is great when it procs but getting it to proc right when we need it is painful, especially for those that have higher ping and/or terrible PCs. We already get ability delay when we use oGCD abilities simultaneously and is only made worse when we have to mash a whole bunch of them together just to proc a weapon.

    Maybe for the time being add a general ability that consumes all remaining power. It needs to be oGCD and has a short cooldown. This way we only have to use one ability to proc the weapon. The amount of abilities we have in many of our souls that reduce power cost or return power on abilities cast make it hard to proc the weapon as it is. No other class has to put in this much effort just to get their weapon to do anything.

    Sergeantís Order
    SO is a huge crutch for warriors. Outside of Warlord hybrids, it isnít worth playing any spec without it AND it has a different impact on each spec. It depends on how many abilities you can fit in during those five seconds that makes certain specs significantly overpowered.

    With Tempest, you can have all your dots up, get 3-4 double pulses (off each of which proc three 1pt skyfalls), three arc procs and you can even get Delayed pulse in there. That is huge compared to any other spec in the game.

    As long as Sergeant's Order exists, there will be no balance in warrior specs. Even the tooltip clearly states that ďThis stun causes the target to take 100% more damageĒ This shouldnít even be working on bosses as they canít be stunned.

    Overlord
    Why is this even one of our top specs. Itís part Champion which is an aoe spec and part Warlord which is still partially a tank spec (Which should have been changed years ago). On top of which it has free cleave (This is why Reaver was changed...). At least it doesnít work on half the bosses, which still shouldnít be an excuse for this spec to exist.

    Warlord
    Spoiler!


    Paragon
    Spoiler!


    Reaver
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    Rompalstomp - Raid Lead / Warrior Lead "Nefarious"

  13. #13
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    Thanks Waseem2K, again some good suggestions.

    It seems we all have the same general idea about what are weak in the souls and there are some interesting suggestions.

    We can all agree for sure that the eternal weapon proc really needs looking at. This is probably true for most classes as well.

    I totally agree with about Overlord. It does good damage and has solid aoe but no ranged. It's cool to have hybrids but this spec feels silly. I have said time and again that I think the punishing blow legendary is too strong for such a low level legendary. I use it in my warlord spec to use wave of steel instead of piercing thrust which just feels silly to do but its does way more dps.

    Personally I think most specs should be able to do some aoe and do away with pure aoe souls. There are too few fights in the game that this is useful for and I don't think anyone runs them in pvp do they? We have specs such as pyromancer doing more aoe than the actual mage aoe soul for instance anyway so they are quite pointless in my mind. Reaver doesnt do much aoe either to be honest.

    Warlord should in fact be the top dps in my mind with paragon and riftblade close behind and then reaver and tempest. The reason is that warlord has no disconnect abilities at all and is actually a pure dps soul now as it's root bonuses were changed last expansion. Paragon has fantastic dicsonnect abilities. Riftblade has some but not as well as paragon but brings some aoe.

    With regards to the Riftblade point by Waseem I also agree. The auto attack thing was kind of interesting at first. Back in vanilla Paragon actually had auto attack talents to increase it's damage so it is not a new idea. The problem is that back then it was a pure dual weald soul so auto attack talents made some sense at least. The top 2 handed spec did use paragon but lets not talk about that! Riftblade has always been a difficult soul to balance because of the OGCD finishers. The problem at the start of the expansion was not actually how strong the riftblade soul was but rather how it was propped up by a broken legendary in another soul. It was also more prominent because we were dual wealing as eternals were not in the game yet. When shock pulse was fixed Riftblade fell apart.
    Last edited by Balidin; 09-01-2017 at 09:18 AM.

  14. #14
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    Default Bring back more warrior tank souls.

    I reinstalled this game a while ago, all excited to pick an mmo back up and do some tanking with rl friends.

    Then I saw that my two favorite souls, Reaver and Warlord were gutted and now we have very limited tanking options and styles.

    I still check back every now and then, in case things have improved. So that is my two cents: Bring back Reaver and Warlor tanking, or something comparable.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sphen View Post
    I reinstalled this game a while ago, all excited to pick an mmo back up and do some tanking with rl friends.

    Then I saw that my two favorite souls, Reaver and Warlord were gutted and now we have very limited tanking options and styles.

    I still check back every now and then, in case things have improved. So that is my two cents: Bring back Reaver and Warlor tanking, or something comparable.
    At start there were few souls and multiple people were working on them, now we have more souls, legendaries and only Keynes looking after them - don't expect any wonders.
    New player? Apply code TD2TGJH9WGYYLEGC2EMJ or use the link for some free stuff.

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