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Thread: Warchanter - Legendary I'm With You! Bug(s) and QoL issues

  1. #1
    Shadowlander
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    Default Warchanter - Legendary I'm With You! Bug(s) and QoL issues

    First off, I have no idea if I'm posting this in the right section.

    Edit: this thread is posted mostly from a PvP perspective, although the bugs concern the Warchanter soul in every gameplay mode, they may not affect it equally.

    I know these points have probably been mentioned before, but I'd like to bring them back to attention. I was looking at different ideas for the Warchanter and I decided to experiment with Legendary I'm With You!

    I do know that the proc from We Stand United! works on the normal version, except if you have under 25 energy. It's been that way since release, it's pretty clunky but we can deal with it once we get used to it.

    The legendary version, however, consumes its full cost even if you have procs of We Stand United!'s buff. Basically, the proc is 100% useless and legendary I'm With You! will always cost 25 energy regardless of whatever else the Warrior is doing, leading to very quick energy starvation.

    Second issue with Legendary I'm With You!: it does not heal for 50% more on Stand Tall! targets, acording to the tooltip and the testing I have done. Is this intentional? Legendary We Won't Falter! and other encouragements have extra benefits to Stand Tall! targets, it seems like this could be an oversight.

    These two issues (particularly #1) make the legendary effectively useless and even worse than the normal ability in every way. It is not even usable with any other Warrior soul tree due to the Deep Breaths and Stand Tall! requirements.

    Other QoL issue not related to Legendaries: target swapping of Stand Tall! often seems to cause it to fall off both targets. What I mean is if I have Stand Tall! on A and B, and I want to heal C and swap it to him, then it falls off both A and B and only C now has it. As a result, Legendary Turn the Tide! ends up healing only one target unless you have the time/ energy to wait another 5 seconds for Stand Tall! to become available for use again, and pray that your targets won't be dead by then. I've basically been using Legendary Turn the Tide! strictly as a one-target ability with a 30s reduced cooldown, with severe limitations as a drawback. It also affects how much healing you can provide with Legendary Battlesong. Swapping Stand Tall! in PvP is already a delicate matter due to the cost, but having it fall off constantly on top of being purged is a significant QoL issue. Similar types of abilities like Primalist's Nature's Blessing do not seem to suffer from this issue. ****SEE post #4 for video footage of this issue****

    I've been enjoying the Warchanter immensely since release despite its obvious flaws, but it would be great if these little things could be looked at. They make at least 2 of our legendaries pretty useless, and Warchanter is already low on options for legendaries since it does not synergize well with other Warrior trees due to ability costs. Thanks for taking the time to read.
    Last edited by Tropikana; 06-21-2017 at 08:56 PM.
    Tropikana@Deepwood
    Tropii@Faeblight
    -Every Time-

  2. #2
    Telaran
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    I've sent in reports about WSU not working with Leg. IWY before; and i assume others have too. *shrug* Most don't bother taking L.IWY anyways, most can't find the point to... Much like yourself, asking why it's not getting the same kinda buff other spells are.

    A) Because why have even more things that are for all intents and purposes, identical.
    B) It would make it even more overpowered than it already is.

    In the state of the game right now, you WANT energy starvation for the eternal proc. Yes, it's already easy enough to do as warchanter... but with a lil finagling, it makes L.IWY pretty stupid strong.

    Going back to pre-Eternal's release... The reason behind L.IWY, is for the 3 attack points. I don't know anyone else, personally, who takes advantage of this; but I find it to be great. Allows you to quickly spam out 1pt finishers, or throw a mock "Radiant Spores" around on raid members via Excellent Strike, WAU+PR, or any number of other combos. That's the real purpose behind its legendary.

    That said, I still dislike that the leg. is broken with WSU.

    Legendary battlesong.... i hate how big the nerf was. However, it heals out to 13m, not 5 as implicated by the tooltip. It will heal 3 people for each ST up (+ yourself) for a maximum of 9 people spread out over a maximum 39m. Big difference compared to the implied 15m. - I have NEVER seen L.Battlesong critical heal, which I find offensive; but I do not directly know if this is intentional or a bug; though I have reported it too in the past, just in case. And I also have not seen L.Battlesong get the dual heal from Bond of Brotherhood; also unknown if bug or not, and also reported some months back.

    I have never touched TTT, so i have nothing to say about that.

    Stand Tall i have only ever had fall off both targets, is when their duration had expired. Every other time it's always kept one up. The newest always superceeds though. So if you cast ST on the tank first, and a DPS second, then cast again on someone else; it's the tank that it's going to come off of. This is irritating still, as regardless of who you have it on, it eventually causes an issue. Case and point, conversely if you do the DPS first and Tank second, then have to reapply, yes, the tank keeps theres... Until you have to reapply again. Now the tanks gonna lose his. So to prevent case A happening all over, you have to pick dps first, tank second. It's irritating *shrug*... but it lasts 5 minutes now; not 30 seconds, so it's not a huge issue. It doesn't just "fall off constantly." In terms of PvP, yer screwed period cause of all the purges.

    As for not synergizing well.... It actually does AMAZINGLY well with liberator. Both heavily favoring WC, and conversely, heavily favoring Lib in point spread. ~44/32 in either direction; Just a bit different playstyle for each. And with the eternals proc, you can spam the hell outta those ogcd's for massive heals. Hell the eternal practically negates the negatives from warchaters deep breathes entirely. But yes; that's thinking end game only and has no bearing on previous stuff.... which i'll point back to L.IWY being about the 3AP for combos at that point.

    It pairs well with BM too, to a certain extent... but for 99% of scenarios that's not worth taking. So yeah, no real synergizing beyond Lib. - If Paladin's L.Pacifying Strike wasn't limited to a WHOPPING 3m around yourself, that could -maybe- be worth it; but most anything else would need further reworking with the healer in mind to make them worthwhile.

  3. #3
    Shadowlander
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    Thanks for your feedback, which is pretty spot on for PvE. My comments were posted with a PvP perspective in mind (which I thought I had mentioned but apparently hadn't). The goal of attempting a LIWY build was to make my Warchanter more mobile and reduce the time spent channeling Tactical Rest during which several allies or myself will get killed due to ridiculously low TTK. Having no access to Eternal weapons in PvP, energy management becomes crucial. I was not looking necessarily to improve the Warchanter's total healing output, as it is arguably in a reasonable place overall, but more to provide an option with less energy management downtime in PvP.

    The Stand Tall! issue I mentioned becomes a problem when you swap it around a lot, which is the case in PvP. I cannot count the amount of people who have died because I applied ST to a 3rd target, thinking it would stay on target B+C and B dying because it fell off as well and LTTT did not save them. I doubt it would be strictly a purge issue, as it happens often in the same exact way I described above.

    I've noticed it usually goes as follows:

    Stand Tall! on target A + B
    Apply ST on target C, falls off A+B
    Apply ST to target D, now C+D have it on
    Apply ST to target E, falls off C+D
    And so on.

    TTT being Warchanter's only "save" in PvP, it becomes an important part of the toolkit. I am familiar with the order in which to use such buffs to swap them around. I do play Preserver and Sentinel, so I have done plenty of Nature's Blessing and Divine Favor swapping. Stand Tall! just does not behave in the same way and I cannot really explain why.

    None of the Lib hybrids are really viable in PvP due to TTK. I know the 44/32 is amazing in PvE but I've tried it in warfronts and it's just not worth it. The largest heal it can produce (with my gear) is around 17k when it crits, and the Lib hots are not saving anyone against a Paragon's or Harb's burst+cc.

    I do not see anything on Legendary Battlesong's tooltip that specifies a range for the healing. The 5m range applies to the damage portion, but the healing only says "near those players". It leads me to think the current range is probably working as intended. Not getting any dual heal from BoB could be intentional as it *could* be considered a "proc proccing a proc", and would in all likeliness not result in any significant difference in the total amount of healing. The mention of Legendary Battlesong was mainly to explain how Stand Tall! falling off affects the Warchanter's potential output in a PvP setting, since you end up spending another 20 energy and 5 seconds to get it back on the ally.

    Maybe I should have posted in the Warfront section but to some extent these issues apply to Warchanter in general even if it is not usually a problem for PvE. I know in the past some legendary abilities have been changed for other classes when players deemed them useless for main class/offsouls or worse than the normal version. LIWY is much worse than the normal version in every possible way. I thought that expressing exactly how this bug affects gameplay would increase the chance of it receiving the attention it needs.
    Last edited by Tropikana; 06-21-2017 at 03:57 PM.
    Tropikana@Deepwood
    Tropii@Faeblight
    -Every Time-

  4. #4
    Shadowlander
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xethx View Post
    It's irritating *shrug*... but it lasts 5 minutes now; not 30 seconds, so it's not a huge issue. It doesn't just "fall off constantly." In terms of PvP, yer screwed period cause of all the purges.
    I managed to capture the Stand Tall! issue on video tonight. Walked into a severely losing BA so I turned on my recorder and got the following footage.

    Linked video starts around 2:45.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkmXa-7L8U8&t=2m40s

    Watch the Group Buff Tracker addon and note the following events.

    You can see Stand Tall! on Kothekill.
    Some fighting at base, cast ST on Zapilist. ST now on Kothekill and Zapilist.
    I get attacked, cast ST on myself. Now ST is on Zapilist and myself. So far so good.
    Around 3:15, Sorrry arrives at base carrying the enemy's flag with low health. Cast ST on Sorrry. ST falls off both myself and Zapilist, and is now present only on Sorrry.

    Logically, ST should still be on myself, and now on Sorrry as well. However, you can clearly see it fall off Zapilist and myself at once, and it is now only present on Sorrry meaning I would be wasting half of LTTT if I were to cast it now. There is no enemy nearby according to my recon vial, so I did not get purged. I've swapped ST about 3-4 times in 30 seconds, meaning it did not expire. I also did not refresh it on any existing target before it expired. According to my buff bar, ST still had 4 minutes on myself, but disappeared as soon as I used the ability on Sorrry.

    I rotate ST strategically to try to get healing on 2 heavily wounded targets with ST on them from LTTT, but clearly it is not behaving the way it should leading to a lot of wasted potential. This happens every 3 to 4 instances of ST swapping, which amounts to up to 10-12 times per warfront if there's a lot of action.

    In a scenario where I would have been taking damage when Sorrry came to our base, I would have thought "ok I will swap Zapilist's ST to Sorrry, and use LTTT so it heals both myself and our carrier", however as shown in the video it would not have healed me, leading to my death. Obviously in the video I wasn't being attacked at that time, but you can imagine how it would be affecting Warchanter's gameplay significantly in emergency situations.




    Suggestion: in the event that this bug just cannot be fixed for whatever reason, I think a good band-aid fix would be to change LTTT to healing a target + both ST targets, similar to how We'll Get Through This! works. It is unlikely to affect PvE significantly, since LTTT is rarely used in raiding/dungeons, the normal version usually being more suited to PvE content. For PvP, it would make the ability much more reliable. That way, you could swap ST to a carrier/target/yourself who is under attack and aim the ability at another target, and both would receive the healing regardless of whether or not ST fell off one of the targets in the process due to the bug. Reliability of our abilities is key in PvP, because a lot of planning goes into ST swapping to ensure maximum efficiency of Warchanter abilities. Once again this is not aimed at increasing the Warchanter's output, but its reliability. ST having a cost of 20 Power and a 5 second cooldown means it must be used wisely in anticipation of healing demand. It is crucial that if LTTT is expected to heal 2 specific targets, that it would perform as such. If swapping ST and hitting LTTT means that it only heals one of the 2 expected targets, it can cause the death of an important target which can cascade into much more.
    Last edited by Tropikana; 06-21-2017 at 09:33 PM.
    Tropikana@Deepwood
    Tropii@Faeblight
    -Every Time-

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