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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Upcoming Warrior Changes

  1. #31
    Soulwalker Jonoth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sidvader View Post
    Another idea is a taunt that forces and enemy player to lock on you and only attack you during a short period of time.
    I kinda like this, making taunts re-target the opponent to the attacker, though the re-targeting is enough on its own without the lock. Maybe 100% chance for single target taunts and 25-50% chance for each AE target.

  2. #32
    Shadowlander Warbad's Avatar
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    Instead of making more pets that have different uses, you could take from our OLD BM model and just have different pet buffs that change the pets abilities. We used to have buffs like protective companion to change it into a tank pet... following those lines you could have a couple or a few different buffs for different uses, 2 I could think of would be something like:

    Support Pet Buff: Causes the pet to have an energy buff aura, adds attacks that apply the usual physical damage debuff and magic damage debuff and possibly an armour debuff. Still has one or 2 DPS abilities. Maybe have the charge ability apply both debuffs and does a little damage for switching targets.
    Pet does similar DPS to what it does on live.

    Damage Pet Buff: Causes the pet to have more ST DPS potential, possibly in the form of multiple single target bleeds (Maybe 3 total) and Bite can do more damage per bleed effect from the warrior ore pet up to 5. Maybe also have a charge ability that applies all of its DoTs like reaver can for target swapping, 3-20 meters so it doesnt just use it on CD.

    I'm sure there are more ideas that could be on that list. That was just what I was thinking when you mentioned multiple pets being a challenge.

    After that I would also look at QoL changes for the warrior, I think it should remain a melee soul for its DPS but maybe rely less heavily on the proc-reactive attacks, either make them cost way less power or just remove them and buff other attacks to compensate OGCD combat buffs plus OGCD reactives is not power friendly and lets face it, BM is not a very bursty spec to make up for its power issues). A CD to apply 3 stacks of Cutting Slash would be sweet, or just increase its damage and not have it stack any more. An ability to remove the DoTs from a target and then another ability to reapply them to a new target would also be nice (like the Warlocks have).

    Ill leave my 2 cents at that, I could probably go on but I just got home from work and I'm hungry

  3. #33
    Ascendant Sedvick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorano View Post
    The change to GTAE, for corruptions...im assuming that this is meant to give warrior tanks the ability to pickup adds from range? Would you consider extending that out to 30m?
    It will be 30m range when fully buffed because of Binding of Shadow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorano View Post
    Also can you please change Shadow of Dread's range to 0-20m. It would be a QoL change for reavers since the range is currrently set at 3-20m, which means we have to backup in order to use the ability when tanking.
    That would be a great QoL change. Or, have Immunization, which is currently useless, reapply all dots in the same fashion. That way you would have a charge to apply all dots right off the bat, then a melee-only one to keep things refreshed with ease.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorano View Post
    I would also like to please request one non GTAE finisher. Having all reaver AE finishers be GTAE is going to get old fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Killian26 View Post
    GTAE's are bad for PvE and ranged tanking, at least leave some of them as PBAE that permeate out 30M and snap threat. If you're intent on making them GTAE they damn well better be a 30m range on top of that 20m bubble....just saying.
    Creeping Corruption should stay as the non-gtae finisher. I agree that having it permeate out further than it does now would be great, but I think we would run into the issue we had when Warlord was a tank soul and the call finishers/Spotter's were hitting things really far away (35m) when we didn't want to be picking them up. As long as the gtae's work well there shouldn't be a problem. On top of that, I think the st finisher, Dire Blow, should be given range as well (affected by Binding of Shadow) for ranged st snap threat. Or just rework another ability (Immunization comes to mind again) into something of that sort. If Reaver is going to be our go-to ranged tanking soul, it needs all the tools it can get. Being able to apply dots as well as a st finisher from range would do the soul nicely.

  4.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorano View Post
    The change to GTAE, for corruptions...im assuming that this is meant to give warrior tanks the ability to pickup adds from range? Would you consider extending that out to 30m? Also can you please change Shadow of Dread's range to 0-20m. It would be a QoL change for reavers since the range is currrently set at 3-20m, which means we have to backup in order to use the ability when tanking.
    Sedvick already answered the ranged question.

    Certainly can address Shadow of Dread. I'll put that on the list.

  5. #35
    RIFT Guide Writer RoughRaptorsOld's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sedvick View Post
    stuff
    You bring up some good points with Immunization, I'd definitely like to see that be replaced as well as the range on Shadow of Dread being fixed in some way.

  6. #36
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    VK should have a high mitigation CD similar to Paladin/Reaver, maybe slightly weaker (20%?).

    Reaver needs a full heal CD.

    I don't even know where to start on BM. One thing is that BM has the same Gift bonus as tank souls, which makes any sort of hybrid nearly impossible. Re-locating some of the damage to the Gift may make low level BM hybrids viable. It would provide interesting solo options, especially with multiple pets.
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  7. #37
    Ascendant Kronos v's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    [*]Reaver: A fundamental change to corruptions.[LIST][*]Change from PBAoE to GTAoE with a cast range of 20m with a 7-10m affect radius. Range is augmented by Binding of Shadow.[*]Corrupted areas grant debuffs to the mobs/players that enter it. These last for 20 seconds base and duration is augmented by Vile Affinity.[*]Corruption debuffs cause threat instantly when applied and have a DoT component. Threat is augmented by Sinister Intent.[*]Corruption debuffs would share a global stack count per caster and be limited to 1-2 max.[*]Cooldown would stay at 30 seconds for now. Can be altered based on playtesting. [*]Corruptions remain finishers with their damage augmented by attack points spent during casting.
    can the DoT component of corruptions be increased from three second ticks to one second ticks.
    as they are now, they are mostly useless in pvp for dropping on an objective to delay a cap. the three second gap allows for flags to be capped, stones/vessels/fangs to be picked up, ect.
    without that interrupt functionality, the is no point in using the corruptions at all in pvp.

    allowing them to persist for their full duration after the caster dies would also be a step towards making them useful.

    moving some of the corruptions - particularly the heal debuff - to lower tiers in the root/tree would also be a big help. the heal debuff is nice on paper, but there is absolutely zero point to it being so deep in a tank soul. if you go deep enough to get it, you're useless in every other way (for pvp). a heal debuff needs to be where it actually has some damage to take advantage of it. (maybe even move the debuff to RB!)
    with the exception of one corruption in the tree, you don't gain any corruptions with debuffs unless you're going the full 61 points into the soul. sure, they are not all sitting at 61pts, but they are all so deep that they are completely out of range for any sensible hybrid (not that most players think that any reaver hybrid is at all sensible).

    P.S. you and Daglar need to bang your heads together more about tanks and pvp. sadly I don't think the protection path is a viable option. cleric defilers have stolen that traditional tank role from us (and it needs a nerf!).

    Quote Originally Posted by Ocho View Post
    Or to put it more simply, it doesn't matter if you're topping the charts if you're killing the wrong people.

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kronos v View Post
    can the DoT component of corruptions be increased from three second ticks to one second ticks.
    as they are now, they are mostly useless in pvp for dropping on an objective to delay a cap. the three second gap allows for flags to be capped, stones/vessels/fangs to be picked up, ect.
    without that interrupt functionality, the is no point in using the corruptions at all in pvp.

    allowing them to persist for their full duration after the caster dies would also be a step towards making them useful.

    moving some of the corruptions - particularly the heal debuff - to lower tiers in the root/tree would also be a big help. the heal debuff is nice on paper, but there is absolutely zero point to it being so deep in a tank soul. if you go deep enough to get it, you're useless in every other way (for pvp). a heal debuff needs to be where it actually has some damage to take advantage of it. (maybe even move the debuff to RB!)
    with the exception of one corruption in the tree, you don't gain any corruptions with debuffs unless you're going the full 61 points into the soul. sure, they are not all sitting at 61pts, but they are all so deep that they are completely out of range for any sensible hybrid (not that most players think that any reaver hybrid is at all sensible).

    P.S. you and Daglar need to bang your heads together more about tanks and pvp. sadly I don't think the protection path is a viable option. cleric defilers have stolen that traditional tank role from us (and it needs a nerf!).
    Definitely agree on the tick speed increase, persistence after death and heal debuff change.

    I just hope overall with all the soul changes that they keep focus on PVP viability and come to some good conclusions.

  9. #39
    Ascendant Sedvick's Avatar
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    Another idea along the lines of Corruptions. What if there was a ranged finisher like a Corruption that placed a debuff on an enemy and had that specific enemy emanate damage of some sort. For example, have it act like Creeping Corruption, but instead of the warrior itself emanating damage and threat, have the target do it while also being affected by the same affects they're dishing out. Kind of like Plague Bringer dots being spread, but a finisher version. That way, you wouldn't leave a zone on the ground that may or may not be walked through by multiple enemies, but you have a tool to apply Corruptions to your targets and their surrounding targets that will persist wherever they go. Since there are 3 different Corruptions, they can all have different purposes/functions.

    Creeping: Does the above, or stays the same so you have constant pulsing damage in melee.

    Stumbling: gtae that damages and slows targets/debuffs targets with a slow as they walk through it. This one makes the most sense as a gtae.

    Dire: Functions the opposite of Creeping. If Creeping persists on the warrior, have it do what I explained above and vice-versa.

  10. #40
    Rift Chaser qUiXui's Avatar
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    Vladd,

    Could you please do something about Paladin energy issues. For paladin, every single builder and finisher costs 20 energy, which will - without using any other off-gcd skills like reactives, taunts or mitigation CDs - leave us starved in under one minute (!), and on top of that no option to recover energy other than standing there not using any skills (!!). These facts make paladin a complete chore to play, and it has been like this ever since the introduction of SL changed the warrior energy regeneration rate.

    A channelled ability (like VKs Unstable Reaction), an energy cost reduction passive or maybe an energy gain passive for reactives could go a long way here...
    Last edited by qUiXui; 12-07-2013 at 12:27 AM. Reason: Added suggestions
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  11. #41
    Ascendant Killian26's Avatar
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    Yeah I leave the tanking **** to the tanks Sed. I just know what I'd like to see so that maybe I'd start tanking again. Viable tank Hybrids are right up there on the list, but I fear that's just not gonna happen.

    I can't say it enough that BM needs a complete overhaul and Vladd would do well to make a post with some of his thoughts and take some feedback from us. It would be a lot better for both parties instead of trying to make lemonade outta lemons.

  12. #42
    Rift Master Godgrinder's Avatar
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    BM with mutant pets aww yiss.

  13. #43
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Warlord: There have been a lot of complaints about energy starvation with Warlord. This is the designed drawback of the burst that they do now. They are great for bursting but not so great for sustained. What falls under the Eye of Vladd is this design effective and fun? Probably not based on the complaints. Any improvements would be centered around changing it from a starvation mechanic into a cooldown mechanic.
    From a pvp perspective, there is very little consolation to the target of wl's burst that the soul is energy starved in a sustained scenario. This is why simply making it not starved wouldn't change that much. It would ofc have an influence in a number of certain specific scenarios but these don't occur often enough to make soul significantly more powerful. If however you'd reduce the burst somehow and then decrease the starvation to "balance" this out, we would end up with a gutted pvp soul that many are atm enjoying because it gives the warrior class a warrioresque pvp build.

    Awesome stuff about VK, although I'd prefer power shield to stay and devouring shield to go. Or whatever the name is of the finisher one.

    And an overall sentiment toward changes: We've simply had too many of them. In vacuum, changes to the better are an awesome thing. In what rift has been for me in the past months, I'm literally terrified of them. Sweeping changes every month or two get old real fast. Good qol changes such as vk buffs and ability to generate pacts out of combat or building in a healing taken increase somewhere into paladin ofc will only improve the gameplay while not making anyone re-learn anything or have his favorite soul significantly altered, but other than that I'm not all that enthusiastic.
    Last edited by Vrab; 12-07-2013 at 02:57 AM.

  14. #44
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    Oh as for BM. Please don't make it's gameplay different, it's actually fun. Target switching could be easily solved by making messy wounds passively applied by tearing slash. Increasing the damage of tearing slash to make it a clear winner over brutal strike would make sense too.

    Other than that, 5 bleeds are trivial to achieve between 3 stacks of cutting slash, strike to maim which is passive and tearing slash, making this a minor part of target swapping problem. And why wouldn't a bleed based soul be reliant on bleeds? Imo bigger problem is the amount of buffing required, similar to VK, than having to watch for cutting slash not to fall off.

    It needs a bump in it's supportishness to match archon, easily achieved without messing with the style by replacing useless talents with passively applied 5/7% dmg taken debuffs. Good candidates are primal heal, primal bond and guardianship.

    Also, make fights consistent in being pet friendly or not. For example pet will die to aoe dmg on Kyzan but not on Salvarola for no apparent reason. Making our only support soul a pet soul is a limitation in this regard, on some fights it's simply either practically impossible to use efficiently or just a huge pain in the *** to manage. Sorting this would help make BM more viable while not changing BM itself in some drastic way.

  15. #45
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    First of all, Welcome Vladd!


    General


    Energy issues: At the moment there are some flaring energy issues with some of our souls. Especially if there is no Living Energy or Fervor present, you will run out of energy very fast with Tempest and Warlord, for example. Try doing dungeons or PvP with either while there is not an energy buff and you won't get even half way of your Wavelength cooldown when you are starved.

    Bonus: Add some sort of a buff or a dummy or whatever to provide energy in your own dimension. Asking for a friend to help every single time you wanna test a spec is slowly getting old while casters and even somewhat rogues can parse LONGER (for us it's often <1 minute or at worst 5 seconds if you blow a cd).

    Gifts: To allow better hybridization at least Beastmaster gifts have to be changed up from 0.5 % to 0.75 %. Hell, I would even consider making both BM and WL gifts to 1 % per point like with other dps souls but that would require further adjusting and toning down some abilities. How about dps gifts in tanking souls?

    Top heaviness: While Tempest, Warlord and Paragon were made totally awesome for not requiring their 61 point ability for everything, Riftblade and Champion still suffer from it. The 61 point ability is just too strong to miss if you wanna go beyond 35 points in either soul pretty much. Could distribute the power more evenly.

    Defensive Cooldowns: All other classes have strong defensive cooldowns available in their dps souls. Some of them aren't even affected by PvP reductions. Warriors need to look deep in their tank souls to get their CDs and even still the strength of these cooldowns fall short of other callings in PvP while also making totally unusable hybrid builds to get them. This just doesn't work. All in all we are too reliant on other classes for survival (heals) and energy buff. If this comes with a minor nerf to damage in PvP I would be personally very willing to accept that.

    Are the recent PvP buffs that were applied to all callings even working?! Anyway, I would much rather see some more survivability at the cost of some damage if it requires that.

    Making tanks viable in PvP: As warriors we happen to have several tanking souls which are most of the time inuseful in PvP. I would like to see this change. As it was stated by Sidvader it would be great to see VK back as an anti-caster soul with mana drains and such. If Dominators can make us warriors suffer in PvP due to lack of energy it would be great if we had the choice to go VK and balance the scales a bit. As it is now if a Dominator decides he doesn't want you to play, well, you won't. You don't have anything to counter that.

    Perhaps making tanking souls viable in PvP could be changing the dps gifts on them a bit. Small adjustments again not to make anything OP. Making full tanks viable could be adding some utility and party/raid protection talents for them. This probably needs a lot of thinking how to do this well.

    Soul specific changes

    Champion: Mostly happy with the state of this soul apart from it being very reliant to its 61 point ability. Could maybe use a passive run speed buff and survivability due to PvP. Nerf Chains of Life in turn if it makes Champion too crazy at soloing.

    Riftblade: Again, bound to its 61 point ability once going past halfway of the tree. What I would also like to see is changing the lowest tier a bit i.e. what was done to Warlord Trained Defenses quite recently. Simply due to the fact that a low point investment in RB is weaker than in other dps souls. Especially if you are using a purely physical build it's not worth it to spend any points in RB in general. Maybe change Elemental Flux or Elemental Precision (rather Flux not to make Tempest any more OP and lets face it, Storm Blade is really weak anyway with or without the 5 point investment in Elemental Flux) to have a damage increasing component as in "... also increases damage done by 1 %" per point. This would buff RB damage slightly which is needed and would make RB as a possible low point investment tree for physical builds.

    Burst Synergy change this. For one it could be more powerful. It's dull to spam Searing Strike and that's it. A poor cooldown ability 58 points deep in the tree. Not that it would need to be another Alacrity or Wavelength, just a small adjustment and a way how it works

    Paragon: Slightly increase the sustained damage and tone down Alacrity by the same amount. It's a one trick pony and pretty much instakills ppl in PvP. Doing this would fix both issues at hand; both sustained damage and the burst (PvP). Just don't overdo it.

    Turn the Blade has to be a zero point ability to make it more usable with different builds. As it is now it doesn't appear to be worth it with most of the builds while just making you to have less time to react (hard, bro) with 1 second globals. It's not like you can reapply dots or use abilities that have CD any faster. Maybe reduce the damage done penalty very slightly (1-3 %) and see how it works.

    Tempest: Severe energy issues with Wavelength. Make it have a built-in energy reduction like abilities cost half the amount while it's on.

    Instead of Long Range Training increasing just ranged damage maybe have it increase all damage by 0-5 %. This again helps to mix tempest past 5 points for physical builds. Before anyone says this will buff something like WarTemp beyond reason: no, you will still take Enhanced Power (2 % non-physical damage) and other talents rather than that. This would also make Tempest and Beastmaster more mixable, for example.

    Focused Fire is OVERWRITING the buff from crit pots. How does that even make any sense since the buff from crit pots is much stronger? Focused Fire only applies to ranged attacks so if there are any melee dpsers using pots in the raid they are at a big disadvantage if you aren't perfectly coordinating the cooldowns of crit pots and Focused Fire. Make the pots overwrite Focused Fire or both even stack (Focused Fire isn't that strong). Another issue is that the buff from Focused Fire is stronger for yourself than for others so if another Tempest applies his Focused Fire it will overwrite your personal stronger crit buff with his. While this would be perfectly fine and I advocate managing cooldowns properly as it requires a little amount of skill you can't really ask other warriors not to use FF during raid cooldowns/Wavelength so it's like "who pops it last wins".

    Purge. Give us a purge, now! I think it's time for us to start purging and save the nerves of poor Marksmen, Inquisitors etc. a bit.

    Other than that I think tempest is in a good state, perhaps even a bit too strong (when will you fix the issue with Arc/Shifting Blades and other similar abilities when there is a debuff present on the mob. 100k pre-nerf Tempagon and 80k Tempest on Proteus last week says hello).

    Warlord: Energy issues. Basically unplayable if there is not an energy buff present (PvP, Dungeons... anything but raids).

    Battle and Defensive Surges are useless in PvP. Why would you use Defensive Surge in PvP when resistances and armor don't do much but at the same time it reduces your damage done by 10 %? If you pop both Surges not only will you do less damage but ALSO take more damage than without any surges up. Do I need to even mention you waste 3 attack points twice and consume your already inferior energy pool. Battle Surge could have its increases damage taken component removed WHILE toning down WL damage in PvP a bit. I would much rather have more survivability at the cost of some damage. WL with Battle Surge is insane if you have pocket healer though. The Surges definitely need some reworking and perhaps QOL changes like being 1h buffs or even passive buffs.

    Forced March make it OGCD like Paragon equivalent and give Warlord some passive run speed buff within talents.

    Beastmaster: This soul needs the biggest changes of all of our souls but I don't think it's completely broken as some do think.

    Uniqueness: First of all it needs something unique beyond Enrage (48 points in) and the defensive Calls. Beastmaster needs to be as viable as Archon and Bard is but not to be a must-have.

    Flexibility: At the moment it's bleeds and bleeds and bleeds making BM extremely poor at target switching, disconnects and so forth. BM could use something like Warlock has so you could be able to store and reapply dots again. Maybe even spreading your dots as in AoE?

    I don't think new pets are necessarily needed but as mentioned earlier, something like different stances could work. Also redo the current pet model, its getting old! What BM also needs is to be able to instantly resummon your pet when it dies. Maybe an ability with a cooldown to do that. Just rework Loyalty to be an actual ability as well. The healing BM outputs is very low. Could decrease Guardianship cooldown and increase healing done by Call of Kinship. This could also be tied to Pet stances if any were made.

    Overall I'm very happy with the latest batch of changes Ailion brought to us. We are in the right direction now. Hopefully you will continue the trend, Vladd!

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