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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: Upcoming Warrior Changes

  1. #346
    RIFT Guide Writer TheGrinnz's Avatar
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    Great stuff, thanks for the update Vladd

  2. #347
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Vladd please address energy issues ASAP. our only decent hybrids in pvp starve in little to no time all while doing less damage and less utility than rogue melee. same thing for 61 wl builds

    it is the most annoying playstyle there is with not counters except putting down your key board

    same thing with 61 temp in raids even with everything going WL starves you every time and you lose out attacks NM if you want to use 61 temp in pvp or in non raid situations.
    Last edited by dday; 01-06-2014 at 04:01 PM.

  3. #348
    Rift Disciple Beluga's Avatar
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    Also, with the Reaver changes already up on PTS, this opens up the option for additions to the soul such as a toggle that reduces survivability but boosts damage done by DoT effects. Effectively making it a ranged DPS soul. As it is, I think it'll be pretty fun in Conquest. I did like the suggestion of Dire Blow and Cyclone Strike refreshing DoTs too.
    Please do this. You would also have to look into the PvP specific tank gift nerfs if this were to work though. The only reason BM and Reaver DPS builds that actually revolved around BM or Reaver skills worked in PvP is because their crystals were bugged.
    "like i have been preaching since day 1 warrior is the king of being good against under geared bads. vs a competent player we have nothing. no cc no utility and sub par damage. even alacrity and temp are countered by a puri with ease. we have no answer for rogue melee, no answer for dom, and nothing to pressure a healer. (1 cc breaker in all our all souls and its a port backwards in a range soul FFS)" -dday 2013

  4. #349
    Champion Yaarielle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    Also, with the Reaver changes already up on PTS, this opens up the option for additions to the soul such as a toggle that reduces survivability but boosts damage done by DoT effects. Effectively making it a ranged DPS soul.
    Such a toggle could also have the same purpose as Stalker Phase in the Riftstalker rogue soul if it reduces threat generation.
    Last edited by Yaarielle; 01-06-2014 at 04:12 PM.
    Yaarissime@Greybriar, lvl 65 cleric (taking a pause from the game)
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  5. #350
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    I'm all for the toggles. Infact, I'm all for multiple beastmaster pets too. Vladd, Savior of the Warriors! Btw, I secretly have a bromance for you making Reaver and Beastmaster lovely again. Two of my old favorites.


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  6. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaarielle View Post
    Such a toggle could also have the same purpose as Stalker Phase in the Riftstalker rogue soul if it reduces threat generation.
    I'm thinking perhaps something more along the lines of Constant Deviation. A hefty boost to DoT damage but at a severe increase to damage taken - it could also be used to get an off-tanking Reaver some more damage while he 'waits his turn' on the boss.

    As the Beastmaster goes I don't lnow about giving him more pets. But rather making the existing one have a lot more functionality and interactivity with the Warrior to it.

    For example:
    - Return "Protective Companion" somehow. Significantly increase pet's threat and mitigation at the cost of it's damage. A soloing stance basically.
    - Have it's Bite work like Vicious Blow. It would deal bonus damage per bleed on the target.
    - The cat still has an empty 4th ability slot. How about allowing it to place the phys/non-phys damaage taken debuffs on it's target?
    Last edited by Kedon; 01-06-2014 at 04:45 PM.

  7. #352
    Plane Walker
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    Vladd can you make tempest harder to play if its going to be this good? Kthx

  8. #353
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    1. A hard look at the function and economy of Void Knight pacts. This is a precursor for normalizing the mitigation across all of the warrior tank souls. I'm really leaning towards removal of mitigation and + healing received from pacts because of it. Similar to the change already in for Paladin's Protector's Fury. This would mean that Void and Accord of Resilience would need to be re-purposed. That gets us into issues of what replaces them and how does that affect hybrids since they are 0 and 4 points respectively.
    Maybe bring the movementspeed from Accord of Shifiting down to the lower Tiers and split Accord of Power(it`s just too much AP for 24points) into something like 20% AP +x% dmg and putting in Accord of Shifiting place "Accord of Destruction" with additional 20% AP+y% dmg(y>x). Then may reduce the dmg bonus of Unstable Void by x+y%.

    For Void I would have a "general Destructive Force"(0,5% AP per pact and reducing the talent with the same name by 0,5%) proc on all abilities in mind, but then pact gaining before 23/38 points could be a bit difficult.

    Just a idea thrown in the big pot

    *Edit

    More VK things:
    Flesh Fusion increased to 20% per pact(100% total instead of the 91% on live) and does not scale anymore with % increased absorption talents.
    Protective Shield shields for 10%(or lower %) per stack and makes it now a "real" cooldown.
    Would like to see that Devouring Shield also could be cast on your allies like Rift Shield and may increase both to 30m range.
    Probably remove/replace the increase of Aborption in the VK synergy crystal

    With this only Reverent Protection needs a look at it...then the scaling issue of the shield abilities in the tank trees would be solved.
    Last edited by Soulshield; 01-06-2014 at 05:09 PM. Reason: shield abilities

  9. #354
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    Just my 2cents, I'm normally a rogue, and used to occasionally tank on my warrior.

    I really liked the playstyle of the old 38 Reaver / 20 WL / 8 Pal pre-SL.

    I could pull with ranged DoTs, run toward the mobs and throw a Cyclone Strike / Promise of Steel and the mobs would never leave me.

    AoE was easy since we had Cyclone Strike -> Promise of Steel -> Plague Bringer -> Soul Sickness -> Blood Fever spam.

    Why do I need that much AoE? I mostly tanked in PUG experts, and if DPS derped and randomly pulled an nearby pack, I like having 2+ AoE abilities available to use. (Think Even Justice spam)

    My favorite part: Sergeant's Order. Sure, I still have it today, but honestly, who specs into WL for a migation tank build? WL is such a gimmicky soul for tanking.

    1) It's actually incredibly useful to able to pull a mob to me, especially a caster. The short cooldown time also makes it more useful than the cleric or rogue's AoE pull.

    2) I find the animation hilarious. Something about a mob spinning around while flying toward me reminds me of 8-bit Mario.
    Last edited by reecew; 01-06-2014 at 04:48 PM.

  10. #355
    Ascendant Techie Will's Avatar
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    Fantastic update, Vladd.

    With every post you're making around here I see that you really are wanting to help us out. I worked with several others while Ailion was around in attempts to find out small improvements for warrior tanks without taking things over the top. Cooldown parity is one of those things that has not been accomplished just yet as I still feel rogues far outpace what our tank souls and Justicar bring to the table. I would like to see useful, maybe even unique or "niche" style cool downs added to the trees.

    At first your mention of taking away the mitigation superiority of one class over another might not ring home with everyone, but I'm all on board for it. I would very much like being able to bring any tank to a fight and base it on the playstyle or utility rather than "Am I going to get wrecked in the face using this?" Adding in useful abilities and utility to each of the callings (beyond Void Knight's purge/summons/etc.) would be a great step in the right direction.

    One thing that still concerns me, and this is more of a encounter design than anything, is the fact Justicars are preferred on some PvE boss fights still (Proteus for sure). I don't think I should be able to use some "super special I love this spec" hybrid on every boss encounter, but I do think every class should be able to tank every encounter. Warriors, rogues, clerics. No discrimination. Adding in some form of ambient threat (even if it must be managed!) would be fantastic. We already have this to a small degree with Void Knight's Surge, but I feel the area of effect is too small when compared to a Justicar. Reaver's ground targeted corruptions will go a long way into helping get ranged threat, and I don't mind the extra work at all, I just want to be able to reach 70% of what a Justicar can do (again even if I must work a ton to manage it).

    How do you feel about bringing back an ability like Intercept from Warlord's past? It would let us intercept the threat from a given party member for a limited duration (or unlimited if not diminished from a 1:1 ratio). Or what about adding the ability of Surge's effect from Void Knight to trigger from someone else in the raid?

    There are a ton of answers out there I'm sure, but in the end I am after the same thing you appear to be. Get all the tanking souls, regardless of their class, within the same ballpark to open up even greater player and raid choice as to who is tanking their encounters.


  11. #356
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    I don't think there is much to do that can make a tank good in PvP, except give them utility.

    Anyone with any sense will notice that they are a tank and just CC them if they become an annoyance. People will still refuse to use damage abilities on them. It looks like people seem to be after some kind of way to make them a viable target for DPS players, which should never be the case.

  12. #357
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    Maybe bring the movementspeed from Accord of Shifiting down to the lower Tiers and split Accord of Power(it`s just too much AP for 24points) into something like 20% AP +x% dmg and putting in Accord of Shifiting place "Accord of Destruction" with additional 20% AP+y% dmg(y>x). Then may reduce the dmg bonus of Unstable Void by x+y%.

    For Void I would have a "general Destructive Force"(0,5% AP per pact and reducing the talent with the same name by 0,5%) proc on all abilities in mind, but then pact gaining before 23/38 points could be a bit difficult.

    Just a idea thrown in the big pot
    why nerf vk hybrids? only reason you tank vk is for the ap. i do agree with the run speed buff though. should be the 4 ponit buff and change the armor buff something else higher in the tree

  13. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vladd View Post
    [*]A hard look at the function and economy of Void Knight pacts. This is a precursor for normalizing the mitigation across all of the warrior tank souls. I'm really leaning towards removal of mitigation and + healing received from pacts because of it. Similar to the change already in for Paladin's Protector's Fury. This would mean that Void and Accord of Resilience would need to be re-purposed. That gets us into issues of what replaces them and how does that affect hybrids since they are 0 and 4 points respectively.[/LIST]
    Makes sense. The whole "sacrifice your mitigation to increase your mitigation" deal was always a bit awkward. The Accords would just be offensive, mobility etc buffs rather than for it's core tank stats. Leaving pacts to ne more freely spent to fuel it's cooldowns or heavy hitting abilities (pacts should definitiely remain a central mechanic to the soul however!).
    Last edited by Kedon; 01-06-2014 at 05:05 PM.

  14. #359
    RIFT Guide Writer Soulshield's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dday View Post
    why nerf vk hybrids? only reason you tank vk is for the ap. i do agree with the run speed buff though. should be the 4 ponit buff and change the armor buff something else higher in the tree
    Overall it would be a buff for around 35+ builds....just the 24 builds would take slight nerf in dmg.
    I only give you the hint that healing is scaling with AP that`s why I would like to split it....it may also need more conversion from AP into %dmg... but taking it deeper into the tree is maybe better than just destroying synergy.

  15. #360
    Ascendant dday's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Soulshield View Post
    Overall it would be a buff for around 35+ builds....just the 24 builds would take slight nerf in dmg.
    I only give you the hint that healing is scaling with AP that`s why I would like to split it....it may also need more conversion from AP into %dmg... but taking it deeper into the tree is maybe better than just destroying synergy.
    yea but for pvp where vk already kills your damage it would be a nerf IMO. i would leave that alone. what they need to do is remove the increased pack time and put something usefull there along with making some shielding passive like RS. its a waste of a 3 point finisher to use DS in pvp and im not sure how much you would actually use that in pve either. there are a ton of wasted talents and abilities in our tank souls right now that need major overhaul

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