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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: rift 2.0 hotfix 2 Bladefury and tempest

  1. #121
    Shield of Telara Kaybriar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    1) 50 Paragon was being synergized with other souls to get numbers well above our targets and what other Callings could get.
    Can you confirm that was strictly at a stationary dummy parse? This concern is not valid in a raid environment where disconnects (especially in SL) are plentiful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    2) 60 Tempest was coming in at the target we wanted but 50 Tempest was coming in well below what we wanted, once again almost 10-12%. Once again we base this information off parses we received and tested ourselves. We then reduced Tempest damage at 60 by lowering the bonus on Wavelength and increasing several lower abilities.
    Am I the only person who sees this? If 60 Tempest was coming in at target, then why would you reduce Tempest damage at 60? Are you sure you did this correctly. In our 10 man raid run last night, the warriors were very competitive with the ranged of other callings. Why would lowering damage by 20% even be considered if we were at target?
    Kaybye ~

  2. #122
    RIFT Guide Writer intrinsc's Avatar
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    To be fair, until Electricity Cascade is re-enabled, and we can test it with Lightning Torrent, we won't really know what Tempest is doing.
    "I love being a father, but there are some things I miss: Silence, the absence of noise, one single moment undisturbed by the sounds of a childrens’ TV program called Doc McStuffins. There is no quiet anymore, there is only Doc McStuffins.
    — Ron Swanson, 2014

  3.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by intrinsc View Post
    What would help is for you, Atrius, to tell us what your targets are. Not hard numbers, but soul hierarchy.

    As most of us have come to understand, based on what you personally said during the Tempest Livestream:

    Paragon: Top ST DPS/Paltry AOE DPS
    Riftblade: Middle ST DPS/Middle AOE DPS
    Champion: Low ST DPS/Top AOE DPS
    BM: Decent ST DPS/Non-existent AOE DPS/Support(makes up for bad AOE, IMO).

    As it stands right now:

    Paragon: Low ST DPS/Lowest AOE DPS(but above BM)
    Riftblade: Best ST DPS/Competitive AOE DPS to Champion
    Champion: Lowest ST DPS/Competitive AOE DPS
    BM: Same/Support

    Do you see where the disparity is? If Paragon was coming above your intentions then every warrior would be using it above RB for ST encounters. Yesterday, we cleared the 10man and all of our warrior DPS was Tempest for best ST DPS. Our best AOE DPS was Riftblade(because Champion ST is so terrible). BM DPS was actually decent and in line with what I expected out of a support class.

    Thanks for reading this and attempting to communicate. I hope you have a big inbox, because I intend to spend the next couple of days sending you parses.
    Those are the intended goals Intrinsic. The problem comes in as I work on shifting things in that direction that as we start to see hybridst hat break those rules I have to shift focus to take care of those before I can address the targetted souls. So for example, I cannot buff the Paragon if there are three hybrid builds using 40-50 Paragon to hit ST targets well above what our intention is. What I have to do in that case is nerf the combination that causes that hybrid, then go back and see what I can do for the Paragon itself. Hence the current changes being directed at nerfing a certain level of Paragon but buffing another level.

    So problems you mention that I am currently aware of and looking into.
    1) Paragon is lowest ST DPS. Unfortunately I am receiving parses showing Paragon at target and in fact received several parses last night of a raid where the top three were Warriors, by almost 10%. So unless I get parses of the Paragon below target I have to try out different builds myself to see what is causing it. This is made more difficult because people generally do not post underperforming builds, just the overperforming ones.
    2) Riftblade is top ST DPS and competitive AOE DPS. I am well aware of this and the only reason I haven't reduced their ST DPS is because I want the Paragon to be up where it needs to be before I do that.
    3) Champion is low ST DPS but competitive AOE DPS. This is intended. I would like to get the Champ's ST DPS up but I need to handle teh Paragon and Riftblade first.

    Adding to this.
    1) Beastmaster. Seems good for a support soul right now.
    2) Warlord. I want to get the Paragon to a happy place before I look into several reported issues here. Any changes made to Paragon, Riftblade, and Champion will impact the DPS capabilities of this soul. Please keep in mind that this soul's goal was never raiding, it was intended for PVP, levelling, and soloing. So if it is good at those and not as good at raiding as Paragon, Riftblade, Tempest, and Champion then I am ok with that.
    3) Tempest. This is intended to be Ranged DPS, behind Paragon for ST DPS.


    If you are finding any of these to not be true. Please send me parses of that fact. This is the most effective and efficient way to help make the Warrior calling more viable.

  4. #124
    RIFT Guide Writer Wylt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    2) 60 Tempest was coming in at the target we wanted but 50 Tempest was coming in well below what we wanted, once again almost 10-12%. Once again we base this information off parses we received and tested ourselves. We then reduced Tempest damage at 60 by lowering the bonus on Wavelength and increasing several lower abilities. We also had several reports on Tempest feeling clunky because of the 3 second cast on Charged Pulse being so common (This was especially an issue when using Wavelength as it did not reduce the cast time on Charged Pulse) So we increased the cooldown on Charged Pulse and then reduced the cooldown on Dual Pulse and increased it's damage to make up for the loss of Charged Pulse being a longer cooldown. The end cooldown on Charged Pulse before was 10s (15s reduced to 10s by Quick Recharge), now it is 15s (20s reduced by 5s from Quick Recharge). Also, we cleaned up the cooldown on Double Pulse to have it match Charged Pulse so now you should get a Double Pulse every time you use Charged Pulse instead of 2/3rds of the time like you did before.
    Why does 50 DPS with a SL-only Soul in a game where you can't lock EXP even matter? Why? It's not like you can effectively raid ID at 50 with Tempest and stay 50. And if you've got SL and are raiding ID, the experience is fleeting at best and your impact as a level 50 Tempest is irrelevant. I could see nerfing like that if the Soul you were talking about was available to those that didn't buy SL and are therefor stuck at 50, but that's not the case... is it? You made the wrong decision based upon invalid concerns.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by skarsol View Post
    Can you comment on soloing survivability and leveling efficiency expectations compared to the other classes instead of focusing solely on DPS numbers?
    This is what I want to know about as well. It seems rather myopic to balance a class strictly on dps

    numbers showing up in groups . Soloing on the warrior since 1.11 went live has been nothing

    short of painful and now the few self healing abilities they did have are nerfed or removed completely?

    What exactly is the vision for the warrior class, because at the moment, the class feels incomplete or

    broken while soloing compared to the others I play.

  6. #126
    RIFT Guide Writer Wylt's Avatar
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    Also why is it that every patch for nearly 2 months is a "first step" and we NEVER reach the end result? Seriously. This is beyond old. Go dig up my toon (Wykkyd) and Opalisk both from Aegis on Threesprings and run us through your parsers using yesterday's builds. He was elementalist, I was Tempest. We were neck and neck. No reason to change us at all, and certainly no reason to destroy us for 1 week+ over a HOLIDAY WEEKEND with 0 testing.

    Stop giving us "first step" changes and get it finished BEFORE you change us.

  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lurk View Post
    This is what I want to know about as well. It seems rather myopic to balance a class strictly on dps

    numbers showing up in groups . Soloing on the warrior since 1.11 went live has been nothing

    short of painful and now the few self healing abilities they did have are nerfed or removed completely?

    What exactly is the vision for the warrior class, because at the moment, the class feels incomplete or

    broken while soloing compared to the others I play.
    Okay, I'm going to bite the ankle here and kinda ask the same thing. What about survivability / solo capabilities of warriors? We have next to no viable healing capabilities and I know I don't have any raid gear because I don't raid - but walking into SL at first was brutal for me. I do take time to look at some of the specs, come up with my own rotations and for the most part - 50 - 52 leveling was fairly average.

    However, once I hit 52 and went into Seratos - I got absolutely destroyed. Big time. Again, there was just no real survivability except popping that one shield and that one very little HoT which only healed me for 168 hp over time which is like...nothing.

  8. #128
    Plane Touched Asidia's Avatar
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    Does your parses with Paragon take into concept of disconnects and lack of ranged abilities? Or are they just sit at dummy parse builds, compare and work from there?

    Paragon will be top dps ofc but you need to stand still for the entire fight.
    you saw nothing
    Nadola
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  9.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wylt View Post
    Why does 50 DPS with a SL-only Soul in a game where you can't lock EXP even matter? Why? It's not like you can effectively raid ID at 50 with Tempest and stay 50. And if you've got SL and are raiding ID, the experience is fleeting at best and your impact as a level 50 Tempest is irrelevant. I could see nerfing like that if the Soul you were talking about was available to those that didn't buy SL and are therefor stuck at 50, but that's not the case... is it? You made the wrong decision based upon invalid concerns.
    Having an overbalanced 50 or an under balanced 50 can cause issues with hybridization.

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    More stuff about DPS
    So I guess this is effectively a "No, I wont comment on Warrior soloing/leveling vs other classes" then? :P

  11. #131
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Please be aware that many of these changes are the first step.
    Quoting for lolz

  12. #132
    Plane Touched krossfade's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by goombatommy View Post
    Okay, I'm going to bite the ankle here and kinda ask the same thing. What about survivability / solo capabilities of warriors? We have next to no viable healing capabilities and I know I don't have any raid gear because I don't raid - but walking into SL at first was brutal for me. I do take time to look at some of the specs, come up with my own rotations and for the most part - 50 - 52 leveling was fairly average.

    However, once I hit 52 and went into Seratos - I got absolutely destroyed. Big time. Again, there was just no real survivability except popping that one shield and that one very little HoT which only healed me for 168 hp over time which is like...nothing.
    168 hp heal is way OP, it should be cut in half, way way op.

  13. #133
    Telaran Clasbyte's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Those are the intended goals Intrinsic. The problem comes in as I work on shifting things in that direction that as we start to see hybridst hat break those rules I have to shift focus to take care of those before I can address the targetted souls. So for example, I cannot buff the Paragon if there are three hybrid builds using 40-50 Paragon to hit ST targets well above what our intention is. What I have to do in that case is nerf the combination that causes that hybrid, then go back and see what I can do for the Paragon itself. Hence the current changes being directed at nerfing a certain level of Paragon but buffing another level.

    ...
    I got an question regarding that statement, is it not one of rifts strong points that we can combine souls we want to create a character that is directly suited to us?

    brgds

    CB

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by krossfade View Post
    168 hp heal is way OP, it should be cut in half, way way op.
    The mobs themselves hit me for 358+ HP and not including crits, etc. etc. I used the tempest cookie build Trion had, but came up with my own rotation which was quite suitable.

    Now bare in mind I play this game very casually. I've never raided so I don't have any raid gear; just some Expert dungeon gear, badge gear, planarite gear. From 50 - 51 between questing, onslaughts, IA', invasions my gear has upgraded substantially. It's just the dramatic, very dramatic change in mob health and damage they do that caught me off guard.

  15. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Those are the intended goals Intrinsic. The problem comes in as I work on shifting things in that direction that as we start to see hybridst hat break those rules I have to shift focus to take care of those before I can address the targetted souls. So for example, I cannot buff the Paragon if there are three hybrid builds using 40-50 Paragon to hit ST targets well above what our intention is. What I have to do in that case is nerf the combination that causes that hybrid, then go back and see what I can do for the Paragon itself. Hence the current changes being directed at nerfing a certain level of Paragon but buffing another level.

    So problems you mention that I am currently aware of and looking into.
    1) Paragon is lowest ST DPS. Unfortunately I am receiving parses showing Paragon at target and in fact received several parses last night of a raid where the top three were Warriors, by almost 10%. So unless I get parses of the Paragon below target I have to try out different builds myself to see what is causing it. This is made more difficult because people generally do not post underperforming builds, just the overperforming ones.
    2) Riftblade is top ST DPS and competitive AOE DPS. I am well aware of this and the only reason I haven't reduced their ST DPS is because I want the Paragon to be up where it needs to be before I do that.
    3) Champion is low ST DPS but competitive AOE DPS. This is intended. I would like to get the Champ's ST DPS up but I need to handle teh Paragon and Riftblade first.

    Adding to this.
    1) Beastmaster. Seems good for a support soul right now.
    2) Warlord. I want to get the Paragon to a happy place before I look into several reported issues here. Any changes made to Paragon, Riftblade, and Champion will impact the DPS capabilities of this soul. Please keep in mind that this soul's goal was never raiding, it was intended for PVP, levelling, and soloing. So if it is good at those and not as good at raiding as Paragon, Riftblade, Tempest, and Champion then I am ok with that.
    3) Tempest. This is intended to be Ranged DPS, behind Paragon for ST DPS.


    If you are finding any of these to not be true. Please send me parses of that fact. This is the most effective and efficient way to help make the Warrior calling more viable.
    Can you please not nerf rb's dps but instead just bring paragon up to where riftblade dps is?? I ask this for the people who would prefer to play rb over paragon. It would just be nice to have people choose between 2 competetive st dps builds instead of just one
    Last edited by Kiika; 11-20-2012 at 01:00 PM.

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