Food for thought on the warrior class

[faxE]

Top dps and top tank and they are still finding things to complain about.

EDIT: Read gunny's post.

where are we doing top dps? on the pts?
cmon you know how it goes
we are good on the pts and then 12hours before the actual patch atrius makes one small change and suddenly we are crap
not to mention that being a dpser is going to be boring as hell with specs like 51champ doing top dps ;s

[Flashmemory]

What's wrong with wanting a soul to function correctly with preexisting tools available to rogues (i.e. Leeching Poison, Rift Scavenger)

Trying to discredit someone's opinion by attacking them is poor form.

In response to the OP,

I don't think that the warrior class is in that bad of a place after the 1.8 changes, at least from what I've seen from the PTS. They have multiple viable specs to choose from for dps (very similar to rogues in their selections) while still maintaining a powerful (albeit limited) tanking presence.

Yes, warriors have their short-comings, but to complain on another class forum about perceived issues is kinda silly.

I would love to see Warlord made into a legitimate support class and for the tanking souls to be more distinctive, but whining about it in an unproductive manner isn't going to get that done, OP.

I'm not attacking them at all. I'm just saying how some people can actually sit there and criticize others when they make some terrible suggestions and then they go ahead speak wrongly about things.

Truth is in the whole HK patch experience ROGUES have shined in the lime light JUST AS MUCH or EVEN MORE than warriors have in all aspects of the game not just raiding. They actually made this game about ONE THING. A boss mechanic..AND GUESS WHAT THE DEVS LISTENED. They made sweeiping changes in the patches that followed to effect every class based on an AI mechanic. MM was really good in 1.5 with IWIN fanout. NB is still lol silly as of now...RS runners are OP in whitefalls. BS is top dps in bis gear on live. BARD/RS is more trolly than VK.

Okay i give it to warriors ..one thing they can do good EI farm one spot really well for PA. But you know what Rogues can tag monster 35 mm away without having to move an inch when doing assaults and get exp for it..

The rs/BD/sin spec that has been around for ages, is really good at farming EI.. Probably not as good as warrior but still works really well..and come on.. I can name about a dozen thing rogues do better than wars.

What else can you ask for...Rogues been catered to the most and they still get their way because within mins of Atrius posting the changes several rogues jumped in and said straight up all one handers belong to US. ...literally said that...and then the BIS 2H raiders agreed so they don't lose superiority next patch. IT IS CRAZY...but that is exactly what happen. I don't attack layers but I call them out when they make comments like this...The devs are capable of making mechanics that make certain classes do well. But in pvp that is not happening because that is not AI it is real humans playing and the warriors are usually the ones who do most of the theorycrafting..

Even before reaver hit live warriors knew it was OP but it still went live....whatever dude..wars did all the testing and in the end they got nerfed..not expecting anything different this patch..the ToL nerf already made them even less effective in the bottom line and the top guys will always faceroll with 700+ PAs..This is where they are balancing our class against other classes...based on 700+PA with full relic and BIS.

[nocks]

You will NOT get anything else then what you currently can do, settle with it or reroll.

Actually the devs confirmed we are getting a Support soul eventually, so y'know. They know it's a problem, which means the OP is correct in his assumption. Unfortunately they haven't given us any estimation of when we'll actually get our Support soul.

[Majorin]

It is an obvious inequity for the warrior class that needs to be fixed prior to 1.8 being released. For those if you that think only a few warriors are qq then you are wrong. It wil be hard for the game to recover from what is going to happen. I read these forums and it is always the same biased people posting whatever they can to keep there class op at the expense of other players and warriors.

We have talked about this a lot with people who do not even read the forums. The reason 1.8 is unfair to the warrior class is obvious and the player base knows it. Trion needs to decide whether they will balance the game in a fair manner for all players and classes or appease a few cry babies that will probably leave for the grass is greener game.

No matter how bad this sounds do not implement the cleric 1.8 Tank changes. Buff warrior dps to be at the top end. Ensued clerics remain the top healers.

[Majorin]

I know it sounds self-serving and bad but it is all I can think of until different role options are available for the warrior. Like ranged dps, heals, and etc.

[ShalarLight]

BAsically what you are saying is that you and majorin will find something to make a thread about expressing your discontent, regardless of the actual gameplay, or what the patch notes say or anything at all. If you dont win raids by yourself or kill players with a mean look, you hate the warrior class, and by extension rift, because all you care about is warrior class. We get it and thanks for your inputs.


this made me lol:

The warrior will lose to any SKILLED and GEARED rogue or mage as long as they don't suck. Yes that's a challenge. Back up your mouth or close it.

I dont get the point, but I find it hilarious that you dared someone to Not beat you.

[batou079]

A few things need to happen. The QQ warriors that constantly repost the same QQ topic need to be ignored. Not only that, they need to STOP being the focus of other classes who assume those very FEW posters speak for the warrior community... because they do NOT.

Second, we haven't been top dps in a long time. However this does not mean we aren't competitive. We can still pull good ST dps, and in the same build pull top AoE DPS, that is fine... and most competent warriors arent crying about DPS in general.

The complaint about class VALUE is somewhat applicable as the effectiveness gap between tanking classes has been shrinking with every patch. And since the DPS gap across classes already shrank quite substantially we see a pattern. With Trion's goals to balance things across the classes, it comes down to one thing. Once homogenization of classes happens, and different classes can do the same exact thing, warriors will be the least valuable class due to inflexability. Having 2 specific roles, while every single other class has 3-5 roles. It is just fact.

HOWEVER!!! Big however, this is NOT currently the case. Warriors still are competitive DPS and still top Tanks. But who cares about flexibility if we are still great at our other two roles right? I agree. A 3rd role, say something like Warlord becoming a full fledged raid support build would be a fun idea, but is not a necessity to keep the warrior class value to raids... This in mind, other class posters who like to comment on "warriors QQ" need to remember the COMMUNITY is not those just those two posters... the MAJORITY (opinion of course) are happy with warriors, and even happier that Trion is taking time to FINALLY make the warrior primary stat a useful mechanic for DPS. After one year, it is nice that our "main stat" as determined by Trion, finally becomes important. That was the original long standing complaint. Something Trion specifically says in game as a "primary mechanic", as broken and almost inconsequential for a year was rough for game balance and gear disparity.

We are not getting a buff due the upcoming AP patch, we are getting a widening of the "flexibility gap" with our DPS options. That's it, and that is what most warriors are happy about. The constant QQ that has been flooding the warrior forums lately consist of the same 3-4 posters, and again, DO NOT REPRESENT THE WARRIOR COMMUNITY. So stop lumping us together as all QQ baddies, because THAT is getting tiring and annoying, QQ'ing about the random QQ'ers is funny... especially when i am QQing about the QQers QQing about the QQ'ers who are QQing... this vicious circle never stops. haha

Are there no limits of the QQ coming out of warriors on this forum these days.

what is it with warriors saying: "fair is fair"

does that annoy anyone else?

Top dps and top tank and they are still finding things to complain about.

EDIT: Read gunny's post.

[GunnyWood]

A few things need to happen. The QQ warriors that constantly repost the same QQ topic need to be ignored. Not only that, they need to STOP being the focus of other classes who assume those very FEW posters speak for the warrior community... because they do NOT.

Second, we haven't been top dps in a long time. However this does not mean we aren't competitive. We can still pull good ST dps, and in the same build pull top AoE DPS, that is fine... and most competent warriors arent crying about DPS in general.

The complaint about class VALUE is somewhat applicable as the effectiveness gap between tanking classes has been shrinking with every patch. And since the DPS gap across classes already shrank quite substantially we see a pattern. With Trion's goals to balance things across the classes, it comes down to one thing. Once homogenization of classes happens, and different classes can do the same exact thing, warriors will be the least valuable class due to inflexability. Having 2 specific roles, while every single other class has 3-5 roles. It is just fact.

HOWEVER!!! Big however, this is NOT currently the case. Warriors still are competitive DPS and still top Tanks. But who cares about flexibility if we are still great at our other two roles right? I agree. A 3rd role, say something like Warlord becoming a full fledged raid support build would be a fun idea, but is not a necessity to keep the warrior class value to raids... This in mind, other class posters who like to comment on "warriors QQ" need to remember the COMMUNITY is not those just those two posters... the MAJORITY (opinion of course) are happy with warriors, and even happier that Trion is taking time to FINALLY make the warrior primary stat a useful mechanic for DPS. After one year, it is nice that our "main stat" as determined by Trion, finally becomes important. That was the original long standing complaint. Something Trion specifically says in game as a "primary mechanic", as broken and almost inconsequential for a year was rough for game balance and gear disparity.

We are not getting a buff due the upcoming AP patch, we are getting a widening of the "flexibility gap" with our DPS options. That's it, and that is what most warriors are happy about. The constant QQ that has been flooding the warrior forums lately consist of the same 3-4 posters, and again, DO NOT REPRESENT THE WARRIOR COMMUNITY. So stop lumping us together as all QQ baddies, because THAT is getting tiring and annoying, QQ'ing about the random QQ'ers is funny... especially when i am QQing about the QQers QQing about the QQ'ers who are QQing... this vicious circle never stops. haha

Well said!

[AWHavoc]

Give all warriors a support role!

That way we can fill the forums with

"How do you get a warrior to go support in your raids?"

Hell, rogues and mages don't enjoy going Archon/Bard, I'd say (obviously made up number incoming) 1% of the mage and/or rogue population enjoys it and WANTS to play that class. Not because they are the least geared, not because they are the worst dps, not because they want to be carried, just because they enjoy it.

Not only is the best AoE and ST spec in your same build, but y'all don't even have to change your builder, so perhaps minor adds spawn, oh well, you're already hitting them anyway, and keeping max dps on the boss.

YAY


All warriors that I know in game complain about either A) Warrior is so boring and this rotation is making me fall asleep in raids or B) OMFG 2h won't drop!!!! Not once have I seen someone say, "Man, I'm really upset that I'm not #1 dps on this fight and wish I could just go support, excuse me while I drop out of your raid because I'm a nice guy and warrior dps is so inferior that you shouldn't have it. and I don't want to gimp you guys..."

Seriously, if you're dps is that inferior so that you're a burden to the raid, why don't you guys all step out?
Sure it's not fair, but if it's as serious as you make it sound, it's for the best right?

[Majorfalcon]

I'm happy for the 1.8 changes which allows more flexible DPS builds.
I'm happy I don't belong in a raiding guild that thinks I'm a "liability" because I'm limited in roles.
I'm happy I can compete with the top dpsers, even though I may never surpass them.
I'm happy I play the game for fun and enjoy challenge rather than QQ about stats and gear all day.


So I guess I'm in the minority for being a happy warrior?

[Brugist]

I love playing my warrior, and the fact that it's challenging makes good warriors stand out , rather than every 9k mage you see everywhere you tun these days.

[TheKomissar]

I'd like a support role, but it's not really a deal breaker for me.

I'm kind of happy where we are now.



About the support role, though, I almost don't even know what it'd be able to do. Like, what buffs or debuffs aren't already fought over between Archons and Bards? What more could we possibly contribute that'd be worth the dps loss of the warrior being in a support role???

To be honest, I have a feeling that's why we don't have a support role. There's just not really all that much we could bring to the table that isn't already there. Sure, we could make it so certain buffs and debuffs didn't overwrite each other and instead stacked, but that's a lot of work Trion doesn't want to do when it comes to rebalancing fights.

[Coxswain]

ITT: people take majorin seriously.

buff chosen!

[YobiRaion]

Now for the beastmaster 7% damage buff, it is not viable either. It is a 2% increase over the reaver tanks 5% assuming 30,000 total raid dps equates into 600 thus making total raid dps 30,600. The loss of dps from a warrior running a gimped dps build such as bm is actually a raid dps loss.

The general idea of not worth having a warrior using a non competitive bm dps specc for that +2% extra raid buff is correct, however, your calculation is a bit off.

Beastmaster's buff, like all buffs, is additive and not multiplicative.
In other words, it's not a +2% to overall raid dps but it's a +2% additive damage modifier to the current damage modifiers that each class bring to their raid from their builds or buffs.
Therefore for a 30k raid dps +2% equals to something far less than 600 raid dps increase.

For example, if a spec brings +200% dmg modifiers on its own then the +2% from beastmaster mean your total dps is increased by 1%, not 2%.

[Kharzhoul]

Please, for the love of God, give warriors an identical bard build. That way we can shift some of barding duties to the warriors.

I am so *sick* of barding.

Sweet .... HK geared and my dps / healing is the same as it was before *any* raid gear ... fun stuff.

So yes, I will happily GIVE the bard spec to warriors so they can be support. Please .. take it ... pleeeeease take it.