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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: AP Scaling and other DPS changes to the Warrior going up to PTS

  1. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir View Post
    The base rotation wasn't complicated, it was all the "if/then" situations that would arise that made it overly complicated. This was amplified to be even worse during fights that required a lot of movement or target switching etc. RW build was only *easy* if you got to stand completely still and wail on a mob.
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir
    Synergy between souls and mixing two souls that were clearly NEVER intended to be mixed with each other are two entirely different things.
    That is an opinion and goes against the stated agenda of the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir View Post
    Because just because you're used to it doesn't mean its right. That's like saying that you got used to a spring in your mattress poking you in the spleen, and since you managed to find a way to work around it and still get a good nights sleep, that they shouldnt fix the mattress so you can sleep on it normally again. Its just a logically dumb argument for keeping it in.
    If you dont like the spec find one that suits you, but instead because of your dislike for the spec you want others who do enjoy it to suffer. And no the spec isnt complicated at all, maybe to a baddie it may be.

  3. #258
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    All arguements aside if by the time this hits live they have adjusted BM to become competitive or synergize with other souls the warrior dps set up will be really fun to play around with and there should be several dps specs around the top which in my opinion would make RIFT 10 times more fun than it is today. Having 12 specs that work over 3 would be a riot and keep every day in RIFT new and fun.

  4. #259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hrimnir View Post
    RW was a stupid spec from the beginning. The simple fact that you had to go so deep into a tree that was obviously intended for dual wielding to get a buff to use with your 2 hander to be the top DPS, combined with an obscenely overcomplicated rotation and macro requirement is evidence enough of that.
    Your thinking that the spec is "stupid" is an opinion obviously. The simple fact that you can put so much passion into saying something that you barely have put a half wit into is baffling. When the game was in development they decided that they wanted to offer people the opportunity to not just play a class ,But to be able to create there class in a since. There were no rules made that said you had to use a 2h in the champ tree. It may have beneficial perks in the tree ,but you don't even have to put points into them. The same is with a the paragon tree. It may in courage it but your missing the bigger picture. You may have a spec that you like and preform good with.[Edit] Thats why trion did this. They understand that no 2 player are the same and they want to give them options. The fact that you have to go so deep into the build that in courage the use of dual wielding has no bearing here. I personaly feel that There making a grave mistake by increasing the number of abilities in the paragon tree that require dual wielding simply because the champ tree doesn't require a 2H for there abilities. I guess if you want to use a 2H you have to go pure champ. Bottom line here is some one some where sat down and said i want to build a spec that fits me!!! From that came this build. I like it, the "overcomplicated rotation" requires a little more mental activity than some (Mostly the people who don't like it) can handle ,But you cant punish people for being good
    Last edited by Alyn; 02-20-2012 at 02:06 PM. Reason: inappropriate language

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    Personally, I think its a good thing for the 2H RW spec to die. The fact that you're putting 38 pts into a DW focused tree to get 2 abilities, should be a major red-flag that something is wrong with the class design.

    Breaking 2H RW will put us in a much better place overall. We've already seen the impact of the screwy scaling on Sicarion, this is the fix. It will make it easier to balance DW and 2H dps by separating the heavy-hitting abilities.

    At first glance, DW should be doing a little better, the changes to 51 Ch should boost the Fiery Destroyer build to about 2h RW levels. But the build I'm most curious to see is the old AoE Powerhouse build with the new RB scaling.
    Last edited by Carinae; 02-19-2012 at 07:10 PM.
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  6. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carinae View Post
    Personally, I think its a good thing for the 2H RW spec to die. The fact that you're putting 38 pts into a DW focused tree to get 2 abilities, should be a major red-flag that something is wrong with the class design.

    Breaking 2H RW will put us in a much better place overall. We've already seen the impact of the screwy scaling on Sicarion, this is the fix. It will make it easier to balance DW and 2H dps by separating the heavy-hitting abilities.

    At first glance, DW should be doing a little better, the changes to 51 Ch should boost the Fiery Destroyer build to about 2h RW levels. But the build I'm most curious to see is the old AoE Powerhouse build with the new RB scaling.
    So you know.. because obviously you don't. You don't go 38 points in to get 2 abilities. Just saying bro.. WM and TotF are very key and I also believe Combat precision, Flowing strikes, and improved flowing strikes are very key to the build....

    And Breaking the 2H RW build is not just breaking the 2H RW build. Its breaking 2H period. In case you are not reading the 29 pages of posting here before posting your basically only leave 2Handers 1 choice and that 51 Champ. Thats not cool... Were is the challenge in 11111111 2222222

  7. #262
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    Quote Originally Posted by Carinae View Post
    Personally, I think its a good thing for the 2H RW spec to die. The fact that you're putting 38 pts into a DW focused tree to get 2 abilities, should be a major red-flag that something is wrong with the class design.

    Breaking 2H RW will put us in a much better place overall. We've already seen the impact of the screwy scaling on Sicarion, this is the fix. It will make it easier to balance DW and 2H dps by separating the heavy-hitting abilities.

    At first glance, DW should be doing a little better, the changes to 51 Ch should boost the Fiery Destroyer build to about 2h RW levels. But the build I'm most curious to see is the old AoE Powerhouse build with the new RB scaling.
    Why would anyone want the 2HD RW spec die? Who cares. It works and is an example of synergy between the warrior souls. [Edit] One of the major points of rift was synergy between souls and the ability to be creative. Using an ability from paragon for a champ build is a good thing.

    [Edit]
    Last edited by Alyn; 02-20-2012 at 01:57 PM. Reason: inflammatory comment

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    Altruis -> Please keep RW and Way of the moutain as an option for Two-Handed champion RW spec. Why is it a good idea to have all our abilities silo between a few souls.

  9.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #264
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    The goal is not to ruin the Rising Waterfall spec, the goal is to get several different specs to the level of Rising Waterfall. When you are able to play the new changes, see how Rising Waterfall plays and then try other specs know. If that spec is suddenly drastically underperforming then we will revisit it. That's one of the reasons we are pushing so early, so that we can make sure any changes still have time to be revised if necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    The goal is not to ruin the Rising Waterfall spec, the goal is to get several different specs to the level of Rising Waterfall. When you are able to play the new changes, see how Rising Waterfall plays and then try other specs know. If that spec is suddenly drastically underperforming then we will revisit it. That's one of the reasons we are pushing so early, so that we can make sure any changes still have time to be revised if necessary.
    Atrius,

    Can you comment on why you decided to move up the total %dmg mod? With a spec like RW, we're now near 400% total damage modification.
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  11. #266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    The goal is not to ruin the Rising Waterfall spec, the goal is to get several different specs to the level of Rising Waterfall. When you are able to play the new changes, see how Rising Waterfall plays and then try other specs know. If that spec is suddenly drastically underperforming then we will revisit it. That's one of the reasons we are pushing so early, so that we can make sure any changes still have time to be revised if necessary.
    Have you thought about removing all the DW req's for abilties and have the DW bonus fire off of all attacks while using two weapons ?

    This would make quite a bit more sence and open up builds like DW BM as BM has no synergy with Paragon. This will also give 2h ranged as they can use PotR and PotH to gain their ranged dps. It would seem like a smart move as Rogues do not really have this DW req though all their builds are DW. This would also allow DW to have synergy with Riftblade as 2h still out performs DW in RB due to the abilities taking in account the main hand dmg.
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  12. #267
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    The goal is not to ruin the Rising Waterfall spec, the goal is to get several different specs to the level of Rising Waterfall. When you are able to play the new changes, see how Rising Waterfall plays and then try other specs know. If that spec is suddenly drastically underperforming then we will revisit it. That's one of the reasons we are pushing so early, so that we can make sure any changes still have time to be revised if necessary.
    Well maybe the spec will be viable ,but not with a 2H.
    • Rising Waterfall now gains a 200% Attack Power contribution when Dual Wielding instead of a Weapon Damage Modification.
    • Rising Waterfall now does higher damage when Dual Wielding.

    Most guilds Require warrior DPS to be running this spec so I can understand that you want to make another viable build to compete with it. But you have to look at the end result. The buff your increasing in the champ tree is a 51 point buff. I don't think there's any synergy there that's as pure as it gets. The other 10 points will have to go into para to get TotF and thank god we still have 5 points left over to put into RB to get the 5/5 Rift fury.

    Thats the new 2H build you dont even have to release it on the pts. That or go Beast master.

    What im saying is that synergy still exist from Para to champ but not the other way around. If you use DW you have options in ether tree but half the Para abilities already Require DW.

    PS: Atrius this may be asking to much ,but for the sake of testing can you please put a vendor up on the pts with some good 1H from HK. I only have 1 because my guild give most 1H to rouges lol.

  13. #268
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    None of this matters until the changes are on the PTS and we can comparatively see where the specs are. Theorycrafting is fine; asking for changes to numbers that aren't even on the PTS yet is a bit premature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jopok View Post
    None of this matters until the changes are on the PTS and we can comparatively see where the specs are. Theorycrafting is fine; asking for changes to numbers that aren't even on the PTS yet is a bit premature.
    I agree. He is most likely ignoring anything that isn't solid, hard numbers. Then, again, Trion was supposed to push something to PTS friday and it got delayed to "next week" so that is most likely not his fault.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sebb View Post
    Atrius,

    Can you comment on why you decided to move up the total %dmg mod? With a spec like RW, we're now near 400% total damage modification.
    Fairly sure AP mods etc aren't calculated as part of the additive damage bonus. It should be: (Base+AP*APmod)*(DamageMod).

    So with the standard RW spec you would get (Assuming SLI, DS as well) .6*64+.24*2+33+50=121.88% base mod for non-followups, 171.88% for followups.
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