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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: PVP Changes for Physical DPS and Warrior Power regeneration feedback

  1. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    Regardless of how the patch note is interpreted, this change affects all Callings. Mages, Rogues, Clerics, and Warriors will see impact from this. The goal being that if you use a Physical attack against someone, you should see a very similar damage done to them, as if you used a similar Elemental attack. Regardless of the armor type they are equipped with. The end result being that playing your champion spec should be doing damage on par with your Riftblade spec whereas before you were doing significantly less damage as a Champion.
    Care to explain how this works then? if build A does all magic damage and it is not reduced and build B does all phys damage and it is reduced by X% by armor.

    how then would this change, essentially allow build b to be mitigated by X%-N%>0% , allow build B to do build A's damage if build B is still mitigated MORE than build A?

    are you saying this change literally made armor not count?

  2. #47
    RIFT Guide Writer Sekhmet The Fierce's Avatar
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    Atrius, just a quick question:

    What was the benchmark you used when calculating the increase for energy regen? As I understand now, if I'm crit-capped and have Grim Satisfaction, I can spam Mighty Blow -> Frenzied Strike + Fiery Burst all day and barely see a dent past 50 power. When I was doing my normal RW rotation (since I don't have HK champ crystal), my energy issues were completely non-existant.

    This will be a big bonus to specs like 51RB for PvP, as it might allow them to just use BoEA if they are willing to sacrifice infinite Riftwalks. But it also has the potential to make other specs which have been optimised for energy regen in raid environments never even need to touch Fervor or Living Energy. I'm concerned that this might be a 'too good to be true' situation and thus want to address this in a reasonable manner or understand the choice behind the extra energy regen as it currently stands.
    "Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiika View Post
    So if your in a sense making physical damage be on par with elemental damage than we should be critting upwards to 2-3k like mages can with our physical damage?? well maybe not critting that much but we should be in that ball park?? If so than i green light these changes
    Amen. I want my 2k mighty blows.
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  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillthy View Post
    Care to explain how this works then? if build A does all magic damage and it is not reduced and build B does all phys damage and it is reduced by X% by armor.

    how then would this change, essentially allow build b to be mitigated by X%-N%>0% , allow build B to do build A's damage if build B is still mitigated MORE than build A?

    are you saying this change literally made armor not count?
    1000 damage reduced by 20% then 50% = 800 damage reduced by 0% then 50%

  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    The goal being that if you use a Physical attack against someone, you should see a very similar damage done to them, as if you used a similar Elemental attack.
    This actually sounds pretty promising. Having re-read the patch notes...

    "Characters with excessively high armor mitigation for their Calling at level 50 will have the effectiveness of that mitigation reduced in PvP."

    So it is actually done on class-by-class basis with relative resist remaining the same, that is warriors having proportionally more physical resist than mages as is now, but with less overall physicall resist across all classes?

  6. #51
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    The energy fix made energy practically ignorable in pve raiding. I, obviously, like this.

    The bm stuff is iffy. I have to test this some more, though I doubt the 44 pt ability will help BMs catch up in raids. The enraged companion buff to 7% increased damage might make 1 bm viable in raids. I'm not sure 10s duration with a 60s cooldown is very effective. It's also very unpredictable because it is probably going to scale with all bm bleeds and rogue bleeds from the entire raid.

    The armor reduction is probably going to nerf warriors' defense against physical more than help them against everything else. This is something which we'll see play out over the next couple weeks as it is hard to simply test. Mages lose about ~4% physical mitigation where as I am losing ~12.5% mitigation. How much does this really help if we're losing far more then we're gaining?

    Lastly, the warrior PvP PAs are 50/50. Guard is good. Thunderous Leap is OK. Furious Blades is really bad. Berserker Defense is worthless. Tactical Strikes only gives a 6% damage increase. Lesser talents (like Take Cover and Resilient) will be decreasing our damage more than Tac Strikes will increase it.

  7.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillthy View Post
    Care to explain how this works then? if build A does all magic damage and it is not reduced and build B does all phys damage and it is reduced by X% by armor.

    how then would this change, essentially allow build b to be mitigated by X%-N%>0% , allow build B to do build A's damage if build B is still mitigated MORE than build A?

    are you saying this change literally made armor not count?
    Having higher armor is still better than lower armor. What we did was made it so that you will have to intentionally spec for more armor to be very resistant to Physical damage, whereas before everyone was very resistant to Physical damage just inherently.
    Last edited by Atrius; 01-20-2012 at 04:53 PM.

  8. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repster View Post
    Rank 8 cleric.

    5421 armor
    45.47%
    37.44% in pvp

    So, yes, this will help us kill clerics, etc. Especially now that they don't have detaunt.
    Here's the problem.

    Clerics can heal themselves, their health bar can go down but they can bring it back up in combat.

    Warriors are a one way bar going down down down down. We cannot heal ourselves sufficiently. Result: Our health bars just go down faster now to rogues.

    That spells a warrior survivability nerf.

    Warriors do not need more issues in PVP Atrius. We were coming to you for help.
    Last edited by Hodor; 01-20-2012 at 04:55 PM.

  9.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vrab View Post
    This actually sounds pretty promising. Having re-read the patch notes...

    "Characters with excessively high armor mitigation for their Calling at level 50 will have the effectiveness of that mitigation reduced in PvP."

    So it is actually done on class-by-class basis with relative resist remaining the same, that is warriors having proportionally more physical resist than mages as is now, but with less overall physicall resist across all classes?
    This is correct.

  10. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repster View Post
    1000 damage reduced by 20% then 50% = 800 damage reduced by 0% then 50%
    Yes I understand that, however, how much mitigation do most classes have?

    How much reduction from valor? (its not 50%, more like 40)

    if someone has 30% from armor and 40 from valor (leaving all other reductions out of it) for that same 1000 damage, the caster is still doing ~1.5x the phy dps.

    So is this really going to boost our phys damage, yes. Will it make it "more similar to elemental damage", for targets that matter NO. Will it hurt me vs other wars and rogues YES.


    EDIT: ok now it says class by class basis, I sure hope the bar is set VERY low for other classes then.
    Last edited by Phillthy; 01-20-2012 at 05:00 PM.

  11. #56
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    @Atrius:

    I really would at least like a response to some of my questions, even if they are short and concise. I am concerned that Warriors right now might be having too much energy and this would inevitably get us nerfed again in the long-run so might you at least address this concern by answering this post?

    Thanks:
    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhmet The Fierce View Post
    Atrius, just a quick question:

    What was the benchmark you used when calculating the increase for energy regen? As I understand now, if I'm crit-capped and have Grim Satisfaction, I can spam Mighty Blow -> Frenzied Strike + Fiery Burst all day and barely see a dent past 50 power. When I was doing my normal RW rotation (since I don't have HK champ crystal), my energy issues were completely non-existant.

    This will be a big bonus to specs like 51RB for PvP, as it might allow them to just use BoEA if they are willing to sacrifice infinite Riftwalks. But it also has the potential to make other specs which have been optimised for energy regen in raid environments never even need to touch Fervor or Living Energy. I'm concerned that this might be a 'too good to be true' situation and thus want to address this in a reasonable manner or understand the choice behind the extra energy regen as it currently stands.
    "Wer mit Ungeheuern kämpft, mag zusehn, dass er nicht dabei zum Ungeheuer wird. Und wenn du lange in einen Abgrund blickst, blickt der Abgrund auch in dich hinein."
    He who fights with Monsters should look to it that He himself does not become a Monster. And when you gaze long into an Abyss, the Abyss also gazes into you.
    Friedrich Nietzsche

  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillthy View Post
    Yes I understand that, however, how much mitigation do most classes have?

    How much reduction from valor? (its not 50%, more like 40)

    if someone has 30% from armor and 40 from valor (leaving all other reductions out of it) for that same 1000 damage, the caster is still doing ~1.5x the phy dps.

    So is this really going to boost our phys damage, yes. Will it make it "more similar to elemental damage", for targets that matter NO. Will it hurt me vs other wars and rogues YES.


    EDIT: ok now it says class by class basis, I sure hope the bar is set VERY low for other classes then.
    In max valor, counting Battlemaster's Brew, I have 49% reduction. With the helm rune, I'd be at 50%. With PA valor, I'd be at....50.6%, I believe.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
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  13. #58
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    I was really hoping for Art Of Defense, blocking with a sword could even make up for the mitigation loss if we got the points into it within the PA, but no.

    I also hope the loss of mitigation is more than our ability to kill. The thought has me a bit worried since we not only can we not heal ourselves, but we have to close a 35m gap against bunny hoppers and kiters. I don't know anymore, I just hope it all works in the end.

  14.   Click here to go to the next Rift Team post in this thread.   #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sekhmet The Fierce View Post
    @Atrius:

    I really would at least like a response to some of my questions, even if they are short and concise. I am concerned that Warriors right now might be having too much energy and this would inevitably get us nerfed again in the long-run so might you at least address this concern by answering this post?

    Thanks:
    This has been one of my concerns, that it might be slightly high. I still want people to make a conscious choice to take things like Planar Blade or Fervor, but also have it a viable choice not to. It's a very thin razor's edge to balance there. I am curious what you are seeing if you use a Full AOE rotation with higher cost abilities?

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atrius View Post
    This has been one of my concerns, that it might be slightly high. I still want people to make a conscious choice to take things like Planar Blade or Fervor, but also have it a viable choice not to. It's a very thin razor's edge to balance there. I am curious what you are seeing if you use a Full AOE rotation with higher cost abilities?
    Using nothing but Mighty Blow, Frenzied Strike (On CD), SLI (On CD), and Fiery Burst, I do run out of energy and get energy starved for ~.5s before regenerating enough energy to start attacking again. This is in the standard RW spec without any energy buffs, 2/3 Grim Satisfaction.
    Last edited by Hunt55511; 01-20-2012 at 05:11 PM.
    Maza the Mage <Damaged PvPness>
    Not playing a warrior anymore because it's boring.
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