Feedback for PVP Physical DPS issues and Power Starvation concerns

[Zaiana]

Since you obviously havent been keeping up with the thread, you might have passed over my suggestion...merge elemental affinity with planar blade and reduce the values. Directed towards ziana btw, wasnt about to quote that massive amount of garbage that suggested absolutely nothing. Since youve obviously have all the answers please by all means give us your all mighty godlike suggestion. To act like there isnt an energy problem is outrageous...not everyone is rank 7 for one and for two the energy problem predominately revolves around pve but also effects alot of pvpers with lower standings in gear. Next time you post atleast contribute instead of trying to call out every single person here making suggestions. A suggestion is better than a flame like you just posted and if you think people will read all of that your sadly mistaken lul.

So you want to ruin the only PVE mob grinding non tank spec then? BOTA is fine as it is, it provides a **** load of self healing, pretty obvious why it takes the place of Planar Blade. Merging them you would either have to nerf planar blade, making your so called problems even worse... Plus you can always go 44 points into riftblade but primarily use builders from another soul, that's what I do when I hop to BOTA in wfs. Merging BOTA and PB is a stupid idea. You can't put godmode unkitability, the best power regen and pretty much our most reliable self heals in one soul... Don't you think we're locked to riftblade enough already?

Okay, Zai, just stop here. Stop. You are making various assumptions about someone else and then attacking those assumptions as if they were fact. Straw-man argumentation. At this point, you are attacking an imaginary construct instead of asking what builds I run and then trying to refute my position, and thus your point is fallacious.

Power starvation is something that happens to tanks in particularly, tanky hybrid builds, and vice versa, not just Raid DPS specs. Don't assume I run the top raid spec, and only just that. PvP is what I primarily do, and seriously, power starvation is a major hamstring. And I'd love to see you have the ability to afford the amount of tablets for just a single WF, and then for multiple WFs, since the effect does not extend through death! Other callings have no issue with energy/mana, why should this be different for warriors? Why should we accept power starvation as the norm instead of a limiter to burst?

By the way, a normal rotation is something you do as a standard attack pattern. Not counting stacking off-GCD abilities and CDs, it would be 3x AP -> Finisher -> 3x AP. The fact doing that with RB power starves way too easily unless crit stacked at top gear levels is a problem rather than a mechanic. Energy efficiency shouldn't just be for raid geared folks.

EDIT: Oh, just to note, energy efficiency shouldn't rely on picking up two energy gain talents, and then still having to rely on consumables. Seriously, that's just screwed up.

Psh, so vain, barely any of my post was directed at you , so I don't really get what you're on about.

"A normal rotation should not starve you, but it instead is used to put a limiter on how much burst potential you can maintain before you starve."

This is not how the warrior class works.

My other comments about specific rotations and stuff were directed at the guy who posted a dumb rotation ignoring both the passive energy regens within the trees he was referring to. RB builder X3 >Rb Finisher shouldn't starve you at even relatively low levels of crit (Without o-GCDs). Unless you start aoeing, which seems to be fine. You may be thinking of some of the riftblade talents that use energy but don't return it on crit, like fiery burst and rift surge.

I read this and stopped and realized you were trolling. The fact that you put Stop using Raid DPS spec outside of a Raid, which is more about sustained energy and tablets, followed up by saying Warriors dont use Burst Potential which is exactly what solo PvE and PvP is about along with our whole Rift Blade tree having skills called 'BURSTS' pretty much nulls anything you say in the future, please notify me to ignore you sooner.

I was referring specifically to someone's suggestion that our energy should be a way to cap our burst.

Riftblade is our most bursty tree, you're right. However it's cooldowns are such that it's dps remains fairly constant. That's what I was referring to by burst. Fiery burst has burst in the name, and it's probably one of our least burst-like skills that we have, don't take everything so literally.

[Sekhmet The Fierce]

Psh, so vain, barely any of my post was directed at you , so I don't really get what you're on about.

"A normal rotation should not starve you, but it instead is used to put a limiter on how much burst potential you can maintain before you starve."

This is not how the warrior class works.

My other comments about specific rotations and stuff were directed at the guy who posted a dumb rotation ignoring both the passive energy regens within the trees he was referring to. RB builder X3 >Rb Finisher shouldn't starve you at even relatively low levels of crit (Without o-GCDs). Unless you start aoeing, which seems to be fine. You may be thinking of some of the riftblade talents that use energy but don't return it on crit, like fiery burst and rift surge.

So, in responding to the bit where you quoted me directly, I'm somehow vain for responding to that as if it was aimed towards me?

Just what?

Did you even read what I had said? Unfortunately, RB does starve you after a while on just the basic rotation, because its finishers are off-GCD.

Also, you failed to respond to questions and points I made before. Why must power starvation be the norm for a warrior, even when tanking? Why is it okay for one calling to be so reliant on consumables and raid buffs for energy efficiency, when other callings can be quite self-sufficient?

Stop tap-dancing around the issues and actually answer people's points. "That's not how the warrior class works" is not a valid response when you don't even explain yourself on how it is supposed to work in your eyes. So, at this point, I'm not entirely convinced you aren't trying to troll.

[Undrsiege]

So, in responding to the bit where you quoted me directly, I'm somehow vain for responding to that as if it was aimed towards me?

Just what?

Did you even read what I had said? Unfortunately, RB does starve you after a while on just the basic rotation, because its finishers are off-GCD.

Also, you failed to respond to questions and points I made before. Why must power starvation be the norm for a warrior, even when tanking? Why is it okay for one calling to be so reliant on consumables and raid buffs for energy efficiency, when other callings can be quite self-sufficient?

Stop tap-dancing around the issues and actually answer people's points. "That's not how the warrior class works" is not a valid response when you don't even explain yourself on how it is supposed to work in your eyes. So, at this point, I'm not entirely convinced you aren't trying to troll.

Macros are to blame for starving...
Put energy regen in PvP tree...............

Change Forced Recon to Reduces ability cost by 1% per point max 5.

[Zaiana]

So, in responding to the bit where you quoted me directly, I'm somehow vain for responding to that as if it was aimed towards me?

Just what?

Did you even read what I had said? Unfortunately, RB does starve you after a while on just the basic rotation, because its finishers are off-GCD.

Also, you failed to respond to questions and points I made before. Why must power starvation be the norm for a warrior, even when tanking? Why is it okay for one calling to be so reliant on consumables and raid buffs for energy efficiency, when other callings can be quite self-sufficient?

Stop tap-dancing around the issues and actually answer people's points. "That's not how the warrior class works" is not a valid response when you don't even explain yourself on how it is supposed to work in your eyes. So, at this point, I'm not entirely convinced you aren't trying to troll.

Personally, I'd rather have a tablet more as a DPS booster, not energy regen band-aid. Extra strength and/or crit, so something to add an extra edge in raids. Energy regen shouldn't be a problem unless you are getting debuffed or stringing together a stupid amount of heavy cost abilities back to back. A normal rotation should not starve you, but it instead is used to put a limiter on how much burst potential you can maintain before you starve.

That's what you said, now tell me what your response had to do with my comments directed at you please? I was referring to the fact that as a class don't have high cost energy hard hitting attacks really, in fact power cost seems largely unrelated to how much damage they do. So obviously starvation is either going to be a constant problem, or not at all.

And you say "we're the only class who need's to care", surely you have to see this is a fault with the other classes and not with warriors? I really don't see the logic in crying because we have to work with our class mechanics and not just ignore them. But hey, heaven forbid anyone else has it easier than us right? It's not like we're the easiest class to have success with (Or at least were, making us less ******edly OP in PVP and the new top DPS spec requiring a brain bigger then a peanut to make work have helped with this to some extent. Plus there are boss fights where clerics/mages can have mana issues and have to use pots, in long fights or with mana draining mechanics. We never have to deal with this, someone took all our energy? Oh well, wait for it to come back. In PVP in any kind of group battle, in less than a minute there are plenty of specs that will be completely out of mana rendering them entirely useless, especially heal and group heal specs.

And people QQing about rogue's faster energy regen... you know their moves costs way more then ours right?

[Sekhmet The Fierce]

That's what you said, now tell me what your response had to do with my comments directed at you please? I was referring to the fact that as a class don't have high cost energy hard hitting attacks really, in fact power cost seems largely unrelated to how much damage they do. So obviously starvation is either going to be a constant problem, or not at all.

General reliance on off-GCD abilities is a power-efficiency issue and a mechanics problem. The fact that it is currently unappealing to use GCD finishers is a mechanics problem. Top PvE DPS requires stringing together multiple energy efficiency talents and still requiring some form of consumable consumption, and you'll still be relying on Fiery Burst as your main finisher after SLI. The fact that it is a Deep DW spec and requires a 2h weapon is a big mechanics issue in my eyes. The reliance on stacking crit for energy efficiency is a huge mechanics issue.

We get starved and for what? You said it yourself, we have no large hitting attacks that would make getting starved an actual, reasonable consequence.

And you say "we're the only class who need's to care", surely you have to see this is a fault with the other classes and not with warriors? I really don't see the logic in crying because we have to work with our class mechanics and not just ignore them. But hey, heaven forbid anyone else has it easier than us right? It's not like we're the easiest class to have success with (Or at least were, making us less ******edly OP in PVP and the new top DPS spec requiring a brain bigger then a peanut to make work have helped with this to some extent. Plus there are boss fights where clerics/mages can have mana issues and have to use pots, in long fights or with mana draining mechanics. We never have to deal with this, someone took all our energy? Oh well, wait for it to come back. In PVP in any kind of group battle, in less than a minute there are plenty of specs that will be completely out of mana rendering them entirely useless, especially heal and group heal specs.

I'm saying it is too easy to get power-starved, especially if you try to do hybrid specs for PvP. Also, waiting for energy to comeback in the middle of a group fight? Nope, by then, it is waiting to respawn before you get your energy back. Also, good luck trying to use tablets in PvP.

And people QQing about rogue's faster energy regen... you know their moves costs way more then ours right?

I am aware of a rogue's ability costs. I have a rogue alt after all, and to me, the gameplay feels a lot more fluid and fun. I can't have the same efficiency as a warrior if I want a decent PvP spec.

[id0l]

lol... so you doing more dmg (as you said yourself you already ARE top DPS with your warrior) will change your feeling, rift being a "It's just now I'm finding it's becoming more of a job to log in and play," ??

LOL

to all you "change or we will leave" guys: just get serious...

I did get serious.

I canceled my sub.

Doesn't get more serious than that, does it?

[Zaiana]

General reliance on off-GCD abilities is a power-efficiency issue and a mechanics problem. The fact that it is currently unappealing to use GCD finishers is a mechanics problem. Top PvE DPS requires stringing together multiple energy efficiency talents and still requiring some form of consumable consumption, and you'll still be relying on Fiery Burst as your main finisher after SLI. The fact that it is a Deep DW spec and requires a 2h weapon is a big mechanics issue in my eyes. The reliance on stacking crit for energy efficiency is a huge mechanics issue.

We get starved and for what? You said it yourself, we have no large hitting attacks that would make getting starved an actual, reasonable consequence.


I'm saying it is too easy to get power-starved, especially if you try to do hybrid specs for PvP. Also, waiting for energy to comeback in the middle of a group fight? Nope, by then, it is waiting to respawn before you get your energy back. Also, good luck trying to use tablets in PvP.


I am aware of a rogue's ability costs. I have a rogue alt after all, and to me, the gameplay feels a lot more fluid and fun. I can't have the same efficiency as a warrior if I want a decent PvP spec.

I don't know whether you've looked at the thread on the warrior forums that talks about energy regen, taking different specs into consideration. We're already getting a significant change in energy costs on the PTS that will prevent a lot of problems that you were talking about, the very fact that they've started pushing changes to the PTS to me means that the situation with energy is resolved. A 7RB 2handSLI w/out tablets can still parse very close to the 2rb w/tablets that we're using on live at the minute.

The thread seems to have turned into a whinefest about riftblades energy management. That's what annoying me, because there's absolutely nothing wrong wth planar blade for energy regen unless you're <25% crit, which isn't really that much of a chore to obtain.

[Sekhmet The Fierce]

I don't know whether you've looked at the thread on the warrior forums that talks about energy regen, taking different specs into consideration. We're already getting a significant change in energy costs on the PTS that will prevent a lot of problems that you were talking about, the very fact that they've started pushing changes to the PTS to me means that the situation with energy is resolved. A 7RB 2handSLI w/out tablets can still parse very close to the 2rb w/tablets that we're using on live at the minute.

The thread seems to have turned into a whinefest about riftblades energy management. That's what annoying me, because there's absolutely nothing wrong wth planar blade for energy regen unless you're <25% crit, which isn't really that much of a chore to obtain.

Right, and again, the whole reliance on crit for energy management in general. And you are still talking about tablets, to which I've said that they are useless in PvP situations.

But, you know what? Why bother trying to explain myself any further than I have. I've said enough and you are going to disagree anyway. You stay classy.

[SeekingtheMCP]

The thread seems to have turned into a whinefest about riftblades energy management. That's what annoying me, because there's absolutely nothing wrong wth planar blade for energy regen unless you're <25% crit, which isn't really that much of a chore to obtain.

Are you on acid? I have 35% crit and run out of power very quick all the time with a heavy RB/CH build. So many solutions to this problem that it should not be such a mega programming chore. Increase regen rate, change PB to return 15-20 power, reduce the elemental finishers to 5 or 10 energy, etc.

[NJoyTheSilence]

Are you on acid? I have 35% crit and run out of power very quick all the time with a heavy RB/CH build. So many solutions to this problem that it should not be such a mega programming chore. Increase regen rate, change PB to return 15-20 power, reduce the elemental finishers to 5 or 10 energy, etc.

That zaiana dude is a massive troll, he is fighting every good warrior change anyone proposes. I starve in pvp all the time, and I do have good crit. You do not know how many times i have been 2v1 on a healer and we got the down, only for me to run out of energy and them come back to full. Warriors blow the big one right now.


edit: Watch him come back with some energy would make our class to good blah blah blah, or I am a good warrior and do good blah blah blah. I have never heard of him, and some of the best warriors agree with the energy problem riftblade has.

[mattya802]

i JUST hit rank 7... got boots belt but no gloves yet, favor still too low

if you dont mind i'd like to find out what equip you're using because my crit seems unusually low.. running out of power in a long fight is one of my biggest problems atm

Wearing all P6/7 gear, Warrior neck, Rogue rings. Noxious Maul MH (with +10str) and Whisperwood Edge OH and Saga quest gun. My sigil is 1 str/ap RR essence, 2 crit RR essence, 1 blue Valor and 2 epic valor. So, nothing crazy.

Are you on acid? I have 35% crit and run out of power very quick all the time with a heavy RB/CH build. So many solutions to this problem that it should not be such a mega programming chore. Increase regen rate, change PB to return 15-20 power, reduce the elemental finishers to 5 or 10 energy, etc.

There's no way that with Planar Blade + Surging + Grim and 35% you're running out of energy ever. Sorry, don't buy it.

[NJoyTheSilence]

Wearing all P6/7 gear, Warrior neck, Rogue rings. Noxious Maul MH (with +10str) and Whisperwood Edge OH and Saga quest gun. My sigil is 1 str/ap RR essence, 2 crit RR essence, 1 blue Valor and 2 epic valor. So, nothing crazy.



There's no way that with Planar Blade + Surging + Grim and 35% you're running out of energy ever. Sorry, don't buy it.

I do not believe you have 35percent crit. I am using 3 bis crit essences, 3 epic valor, rogue rings, war neck, and all p7/p6 gear. In very few specs do i hit 35 percent, and most certainly not in sword and board specs. In the specs with the paragon crit buff I do, but defense is horrible.

I am using HK wep, a better sigil, and otherwise the same gear as you. Where is your extra crit and energy coming from?

Energy is needed in RB.

[mattya802]

I do not believe you have 35percent crit. I am using 3 bis crit essences, 3 epic valor, rogue rings, war neck, and all p7/p6 gear. In very few specs do i hit 35 percent, and most certainly not in sword and board specs. In the specs with the paragon crit buff I do, but defense is horrible.

I am using HK wep, a better sigil, and otherwise the same gear as you. Where is your extra crit and energy coming from?

Energy is needed in RB.

I didn't say I had 35% crit, the person I quoted did. I'm only around 780 crit with my PvP SM, but don't have any real power issues in PvP.

[NJoyTheSilence]

I didn't say I had 35% crit, the person I quoted did. I'm only around 780 crit with my PvP SM, but don't have any real power issues in PvP.

Using 6 or 7 rb? 6RB is a major energy getter, and will be gone in 1.6. Odd how you see no energy probs, but most others do.

[Noctisx]

Warriors are fine.






If you are a masochist.