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  Click here to go to the first Rift Team post in this thread.   Thread: TRION: Axe Mastery Confirmation

  1. #136
    Ascendant titansgrip's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Yes.


    This stuff will never be totally equal because different specs and classes scale at varying rates depending on modifiers and buffs/talents. Some classes (rogues) or specs (rb) scale better with AP while others (2h wars, 38 para) scale better with weapon dps. That's just the way it is.
    Yea, I thought so half way through my PA t1.

    I prefer DW to 2h fighting style, so it seems like I'll go down that route eventually. Or at least till I get a decent 2h. Duke polearm is... :/

  2. #137
    Banned Swiftly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
    Deny what?

    A clearly mistaken rogue got lost and started posting about warrior mechanics that he didn't understand. I corrected him. I'm not trying to deny anything. I've always posted clearly and objectively (except when talking about how overpowered riftstalkers are).

    I don't know how the rogue PAs work because I haven't seen them. Let me take a second to explain warrior PAs to you. You seem a little confused.

    Warriors have the following +dps PAs:
    4x Mace Mastery
    4x Sword Mastery
    4x Axe Mastery
    4x Polearm Mastery
    4x Ranged Mastery (+1 ap per rank)
    4x Two Handed Mastery

    Now how it stacks:
    If you have an epic HK two handed axe (58.3 dps) then you gain 0.2 dps from every rank of AXE MASTERY and TWO HANDED MASTERY. So you have the opportunity to earn up to 6.4 dps (+11%).

    If you have an epic HK one handed axe (44.8 dps) then you gain 0.2 dps from every rank of AXE MASTERY. Here you have the opportunity to earn up to 3.2 dps (7.2%). For warrior, many of our abilities take the contribution of both MH and OH, so for many of our abilities this is actually effectively a 6.4 dps increase (assuming you have two axes).

    Guns and Bows are different weapons just like Swords and Axes are different weapons. If you upgrade your gun to a bow, all your gun PAs are worthless. Just like if I upgrade an axe to a sword. That's how everyone's PAs work.

    Now on to warriors vs rogues. If you have a problem with how your PAs are working, then go post about your PAs. Don't come to the warrior forums complaining about mechanics that you don't understand. The warrior PAs are balanced for warrior DW vs warrior 2h. Warrior 2h needs the extra mechanics because we only use one weapon. If you feel like your PAs should work under similar mechanics, then go post about it. You're not going to get anything for rogue DW by complaining about warrior 2h.
    Rogues have the following +dps PAs:
    4x Mace Mastery
    4x Sword Mastery
    4x Axe Mastery
    4x Dagger Mastery
    4x Bow
    4x Gun

    We dont however, get dual wield contribution as stated in a previous post. Ive done multiple tests, with many different spec's, and abilities within those specs. All Weapon DPS in contributed off Mainhand, or Offhand only. Unless the PA's are giving us 6.4Wep DPS to our Mainhand when Wielding two daggers, we're effectively getting jipped. This could be an upside, or downside depending on how you look at it. Less time grinding out to get maximium DPS, or bad if you're someone like me, or you, that has time to get these, and min/max your DPS.

    Anyways, while I agree with you complaining about it on the warrior forums is more then likely a waste, it was brought up here. I more then likely wont waste my time posting it in the Rogue forums because they're all too caught up in how Rogue's are currently balanced in PVP.

  3. #138
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    I still dislike that we have no 1h mastery or dagger mastery, yet we have mace mastery? I would say there are far more warrior bis daggers in the game than maces but we took a hit on that anyway, and I'm sure it had a lot to do with rogues complaining about us "stealing" their daggers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sweet View Post
    We’re generally happy with the current state of Warriors and are continuing to monitor a number of smaller issues involving them.
    R8 Rogue
    R8 Warrior

  4. #139
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Odaman View Post
    If you use a 2h axe, you get the bonus from 2h sword,2h axe, 1h axe. I know counting is hard.
    Lol, apparently counting is pretty hard

  5. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftly View Post
    We dont however, get dual wield contribution as stated in a previous post. Ive done multiple tests, with many different spec's, and abilities within those specs. All Weapon DPS in contributed off Mainhand, or Offhand only. Unless the PA's are giving us 6.4Wep DPS to our Mainhand when Wielding two daggers, we're effectively getting jipped. This could be an upside, or downside depending on how you look at it. Less time grinding out to get maximium DPS, or bad if you're someone like me, or you, that has time to get these, and min/max your DPS.
    I don't know that you're actually getting shorted in any way from this. Think about it this way: in a world where things are working correctly, if you add two whetstones to two warrior weapons, you are adding +5 to each. If you add two whetstones to two rogue weapons, you are adding +5 to each. If you add one oilstone to on warrior 2H weapon, you're adding +10 to that one weapon. Now, how the damage calculates is different in all of those situations: if you're a rogue, as I understand it, you're getting your contribution from the main hand only. A paragon warrior would be getting a contribution from both weapons, and of course a 2H warrior is only getting a contribution from one weapon but is balanced with abilities such that the higher DPS of a 2H weapon scales similarly. If this is 'working', the +5 (that the rogue only actually has to use on the main hand, at least re: ability damage) is giving the same as the +5 on both hands for the paragon, or the +10 on the 2H weapon for the 2H warrior, and we end up seeing the same overall bonus from whetstones and oilstones.

    Now replace all of those values with +3.2 and +6.4. Of course, it's not 'perfect' since the scaling on a lot of this stuff is different - as Riz mentioned, we generally scale a little better with DPS across the board, and you guys definitely scale better with AP. Same general idea though and we're definitely not getting twice the benefit. Then on top of that, it takes twice as long to grind the 6.4 for a 2H war, and a DW war is getting locked out of using daggers that might otherwise be the most desirable weapons for us.

  6. #141
    Plane Touched
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    since the thread is off the rails already...

    (disclaimer: I dont know much at all about rogues)

    Do ranged rogues like Marksmen and Rangers not get any benefit from whetstones? I know they used to when it was just + damage, but now that they are +dps are they completely worthless for those specs? and I think MM is the highest dps spec at the moment for little movement fights?

    if whetstones do indeed work somehow for ranged attacks, then rogues would be double dipping as well since the dagger, mace, sword and axe masteries would be stacking with either bows or guns right?

    And if whetstones dont do **** for ranged rogues, well, I dunno, who cares, they're rogues AMIRITE GUYS!?

  7. #142
    RIFT Guide Writer Sebb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swiftly View Post
    Rogues have the following +dps PAs:
    4x Mace Mastery
    4x Sword Mastery
    4x Axe Mastery
    4x Dagger Mastery
    4x Bow
    4x Gun

    We dont however, get dual wield contribution as stated in a previous post. Ive done multiple tests, with many different spec's, and abilities within those specs. All Weapon DPS in contributed off Mainhand, or Offhand only. Unless the PA's are giving us 6.4Wep DPS to our Mainhand when Wielding two daggers, we're effectively getting jipped. This could be an upside, or downside depending on how you look at it. Less time grinding out to get maximium DPS, or bad if you're someone like me, or you, that has time to get these, and min/max your DPS.

    Anyways, while I agree with you complaining about it on the warrior forums is more then likely a waste, it was brought up here. I more then likely wont waste my time posting it in the Rogue forums because they're all too caught up in how Rogue's are currently balanced in PVP.
    There's another factor at play here: % of weapon damage. The percent of your weapon dps that goes into calculating weapon damage is different when using both MH and OH vs just MH (OH = Statstick).

    So while Paragon weapon dps may go up by 6.4, it doesn't mean that we actually get the that 6.4 dps attributed to the attack. You can't compare rogue dw to warrior dw at all. Our attacks only get something like 5-10% of AP attributed to damage. The rest is weapon damage * damage modifier (usually in the 200% range).

    So where all our AP PAs are useless, yours have a use. Profit?
    Seb - R40 OP PVP Warrior
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  8. #143
    Telaran
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    Default Trion...

    TRION....please explain.

    Sincerely,
    Warrior Community

  9. #144
    General of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyis3l33t View Post
    TRION....please explain.

    Sincerely,
    Warrior Community
    Wtf? Did you not read where the dev confirmed its working as intended?

  10. #145
    Plane Touched
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    Tony, please read

    Sincerely,
    Everyone

    http://forums.riftgame.com/rift-gene...ml#post3239538

  11. #146
    Prophet of Telara
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acex View Post
    Common sense tells - it's bug and no need confirmation.
    Bet he feels dumb

  12. #147
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Poochymama View Post
    Bet he feels dumb
    nah didnt feel like ready 15 pages. I do feel lazy, however.

    thanks for the link above =)

    EDIT: i guess it would be 11, still lazy.
    Last edited by Tonyis3l33t; 10-07-2011 at 07:34 AM.

  13. #148
    Telaran
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonyis3l33t View Post
    I do feel lazy, however.
    Nice! I just realized the thread entry shows when purpz replied, i can be lazy and still get what I want!

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