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Thread: Reactive Nerf Needed? PVP

  1. #1
    Plane Walker
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    Default Reactive Nerf Needed? PVP

    First off, good for rogs they need it. This is a post about Warriors.

    Was it really needed to give reactives an internal CD? I bring this up in the eyes of a physical damage warrior. I have been playing this a few weeks now. I can honestly say as a 51 Champ/15 Paragon with full rank 8 gear I actually felt pretty okay. I didn't feel over the top and i didnt feel worthless. I played the spec as a team frontline face smasher. Yes I chopped through the lower ranks with ease (as most any rank 8 can do) but vs same rank/gear the damage is pretty average. (in all honestly I would say kinda low considering it has no self sustainabilty but again I was ok with it). The only saving grace to the sub par damage ouput vs equal rank was the ability do get small bursts in cycles. I have no defense and really again the damage was just okay. The build was fun and when combined with some healers and other dps it was an okay build to play and I made it effective.

    Now the reactives have an internal CD. Not only is the damage subpar but being able to load up a little burst (yes i think triple 800 crits occasionally is totally ok vs equal rank/gear) is gone. I can handle bloodthirst gone and that leaves me with 3 OGCD's in this build. Now I will still be able to get 3 off and probably not miss many atacks as they have their own CD but not being able to get any real burst out of it really cripples the build.

    Finally I ask why the nerf to reactives? My best guess is because of the FOTM RB's. They do some very good damage (which is magic) and maybe having multiple reactives going off instantly put that build over the top.

    If this is your reasoning do you have any idea what you did to physical warriors yet again? this is Para/Champ all over again. Back then everyone cried over Para/Champ. Instead of toning that build down Trion did sweeping nerfs across the board which not only made that FOTM extinct but they managed to screw up pretty much all the warrior souls. Now the Warriors move to RB FOTM. People cry the RB builds are too strong. Once again Trion goes to tone down that build but again they go with sweeping nerfs which indirectly (once again) crush multiple Warrior souls.

    You guys (Trion) really need to start thinking what you are doing. You need to think about how these nerfs affect EVERYTHING. When Para/Champ was your problem you could of dealt with that build. If RB is your problem now you should deal with that build.

    Please stop and think what your changes do to everything not just the FOTM you are trying to target. Not everyone rides the gravy train of FOTM. Some people try to play to their own style (even when people say they are reatarded) and even though they are okay not being 'the ultimate' they find something they can enjoy and be effective with. I

    I'm away onbussiness and back on the weekend. Not sure I even want to log on at this point. (yes flame me saying you didn't even play yet but I know eactly what has happened to someone trying to play non FOTM full champ)

    I think all classes should be able to enjoy the game and be competitive. I also think players should have options. Again I'm happy for rogues. They needed it. (they also had the patience of saints waiting for it, although I think many just played alts)

    You do really need to stop this mass buff/nerf thing. (this was a big buff needed for them though so it is ok. whats done is now done) It is time to start thinking before implementing. If rogs do become truly OP do not smash them back down. Tone down 'gently' and work towards balance as best you can. Try looking at other classes and bring up their weak points to achieve best balance. Again GENTLY. Stop taking 1 step forward then 2 steps back with everything you do. It is fun for no one.

    At the rate your going I think I may be done soon. Not because I'm going to unsub but because i think your playerbase is going to wander off and there won't be anyone left to smash my axe into!. Would be a pitty too. You have a great game. You just have a poor way of maintaining it...

    As much as this is probably falling on deaf ears I guess my own QQ post made me feel a sliver better! LOL

    -signed Ivvan, Tired Worn Out Dwarf Warrior

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
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    Agreed.

    My 38 para 2h is dead. I am now forced into riftblade. I hate riftblade.
    RL 50 Warrior R7 - Sublime (NOIR)~ Briarcliff
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  3. #3
    Ascendant
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    I agree....

  4. #4
    Plane Walker
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    Ilove all the posts I see now over Warriors like "lol warriors, you can't just rush in and kill everything now. Learn to Play!"

    Like wtf people expect us to do? We are Warriors for christ sake. We charge in (hopefully) recieve heals and smash faces. We charge, we fight, we die...we rez and get right back in there! We try to push the front lines so our healers, casters, and range can do their thing. How do we need to learn to play? We have basically no self sustainabilty and no support options?

    I can't see how it is so outrageous that a class that is designed to be in mellee range with next to no healing capabilty (don't bring up Reaver lol dot heals or an obscenely long comple heal is anyway viable healing in this game) can do great damage in a team setting.

    Warriors should be expected to excell in grp combat as a dps. The sacrafice is being on the weaker spectrum of solo play. I'm sorry but Warriors in any spec are currently and have been for a while at that lower end of a solo class. Against equal rank we can be taken out by any and all classes. We can win some fights but we are definately at the weaker end. Any Warrior that says he rocks the solo world is not talking about playing vs top rank/geared competent opponents.

    I'm okay with that. What is really bothering is in group play we are just okay at best IF we have proper support... I'll still do fine when I get home and finally log in but we are no way okay in our current state.

  5. #5
    Rift Chaser Mad Dog's Avatar
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    Non-RB are really unplayable now. RB is good and there are a few mixes you can take. I too find it very boring though.

    I still miss parachamp play style.... epic physical damage tornado... and weak as piss defensively.

    Trion are still trying to make us play tanks it seems.

    P.S. We will quit before that happens Trion.

    Wykar <GOON SQUAD> R8 Warrior Seastone

  6. #6
    Shadowlander
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    i have played rift blade since 1.0 and have seen the massive amount of changes to the soul rift blades called rift fails once upon a time

    remember spamming of firespear and feiry burst was that a fun class back then though our was great it has always missed the LW which is the one thing that placed it behind the good old champ build back when stun locking from champs were the norm sabs charges bypassed armour and one shotted most people

    we also saw changes to rift fury placing a limit on the amount it contributed to our elemental damage storm burst hitting dead people earth burst being completely useless and riftsurge being uncleansable and on a 10 second CD

    then we started seeing positive things happen empowered strikes increase auto attack damage, ap contributing to elemental touch and avatar of the rift which placed slightly more dps in our pool which around that time parachamp DW came into place and i had no problem beating on the build it was physical damage i was elemental i won most of the time people always complained about it probably due to the LW stacking so easy

    since then we have seen a drop in elemental touch, rift fury contribution, rift surge increase in cd and cleansable but more dmg, rift walk having a stun even though the notes stated it should have but hey no it wasnt

    all in all i have played a riftblade since i started been through the ups and downs seen many builds come and go sadly i have reached my end with rift and will not renew my sub but dont confuse this with warrior changes it is simply i have had my fun with the game and got what i wanted which was to play with friends and have a blast which i did i think it goes without saying that when a game becomes more like another job its time to throw in the towel and not come out feeling like you just went 12 rounds in a boxing ring

  7. #7
    Shadowlander
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    Default /signed

    pretty much sums it up, Signed.

  8. #8
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    Last night was pretty tough felt at times like I was hitting with a wet noodle, however there were a lot of "good" (eye of the beholder) rogues out last night as well as not a huge amount of healers.


    Tried quite a few specs

    In the end had to settle on ugh RB/Para if I had heals and it was ok as was said above was able to crush the lower ranks. Without heals and nerfed bloodthirsty struggled to say the least

    snb Ch/Rb/Rv this worked pretty well tbh wasnt top and wasnt bottom.

    Nice to see rogues do well however some P8 people were smashing it last night.

    btw am Part P8 geared (ie 2H, 1H Bow the rest P7 gear)

    Im fine with the reactives bit but Trion needs to do something maybe to increase overall damage mainly Physical.

  9. #9
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    /signed
    /signedagain

  10. #10
    Plane Walker
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    I guess after saying all I have it would be best to give my suggestions. Right before the patch I personally felt like I was pretty balanced as a 51 Champion. 1v1 I was beatable by all classes same rank rank. Yes even rogs were able to beat me the majority of the time if they played well. In return I was a force to be reckon with in grp settings/wfs where proper heals/support were present. I in know way felt over the top. I could make an arguement that my damage could of even needed a little boost BUT I was okay with where we were at. Just like I said weak 1v1 strong in group is what I believe a warrior should be. (well at least a full Champion) I think we were pretty darn close to that.

    What I would like to see changed:

    1) Reactives - This was the saving grace to full Champ. It allowed pretty mediocore damage to spike in small bursts to allow some pressure to be put upon enemies. Trust me it was in no way OP with this build vs same rank. Mages and Clerics could kite me all day long BUT with a grp behind me it was adequate and I think oretty balanced . Various Clerics and Mages were unkillable solo which is okay. (some rogs wer eunkillable as well) I would never expect to drop the ones with certain specs easily solo though. this would mean I was doing too much damage and I would of been way over the top in a group setting. (I don't want that)

    If physical damage styas where it is reactives should be reverted to having no internal CD.

    2) Bloodthirst - This was removed from OGCD all together. It was a HUGE part of the playstyle. Once you started racking kills it helped with the small bursts you could put out. Now it is on GCD.

    I'm ok with it being on GCD IF it hit pretty daman hard OR they gave it some utility use. You have to be in mellee and only usable after a KB. I would reccomend something to effect of a bloodthirsty guild perk. maybe a 20%/25%/30% HoT over 6 secs, ON GCD, no dmagae increase. I don't think that would be OP considering the conditions it becomes availible. At the least if Bloodthirst stays as is on GCD it should hit like a MACK TRUCK. I'm talking Deathblow dmagae not power strike damage (no side effects)...

    3) Physical Damage - IMO isn't all too bad. What makes it really subpar now is the fact we lost the burst to back it up.

    If the reactive and Bloodthirst changes stay as is, plain and simple our physical damage needs to go up. We have no heals or any real defense. The damage with the reactive change is way too sub par.

    I would rather see something done to revert the reactive change over just trying to up physical damage acrross the board. Reactives are fun and has a nice feel to the playstyle. IMO better to have that average damage topped with some spikey burst vs a boring linear 'balanced' amout of straight physical damage.

    What I would really not want to see is a flat out unwind of the Para/Champ nerfs. this would be doing some overbuffing to fast. If you ever plan to make some changes please refer to my GENTLY from the originol post.

    Your issue and challenge is going to be tieing this in to RB. The challenge I see is when you buff something it can affect everything. If you want to say buff Champ then you need to make some Changes that are 'Champ only' or stick the needed changes high enough in the tree (probaly the 26 point level+) so other souls can't be combined to make these over the top builds.

    If I was desinging souls around this games (I would say terrific soul system) I would work each soul bottom to top. Power would raise from 1 point spent all the way to 51. (which obviously they should) The first 16-28 points are what people are going to pick up to supplement other souls so I would be very cautious on what these first 28 points could be combined with. (perfect example was SLI at 2 points! totally uncalled for and properly fixed) If a soul was lacking I would work from the top down so i could buff it without affecting other souls. (if something is over 16 points it is harrd for another soul to pick up, at 28 it beomes a possible 38/28 build, at 38 it becomes a main soul, ect...)

    MMO's are evolving. And it takes time, and is expected to take time, for a game to iron out. For the love of god take a more gentle approach. Baby steps are much better then taking blind leaps! It will be easier to to achieve a sense of balance and you won't be pissing everyone off on the way constatntly!
    Last edited by Mopain; 09-30-2011 at 05:13 AM.

  11. #11
    Plane Walker
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    To add on possible blanacing. One idea to start with if taking the reactive interanl CD nerf back would be maybe taking frenzied strike and moving it up the Champ tree. Maybe move it to 32 and replace 20 with mark of extermination. I could see this as helping Champ back out. Doing so you could then look at RB and see what that does. If RB suffers too much from losing that reactive you can think about maybe adding a reactive with a RB flare someone in that tree at an appropriate spot. Maybe it would work but maybe not. Parachamp may then suffer too much then but you can make a change in that tree if need be. Maybe another reactive to back up turn the blade. Maybe another reactive is not needed and they could use another change. Once you have the basic atatcks figured out you cna evaluate overall damage of builds and talents and adjust accordingly.

    See what I did there? GENTLY adjust.

    This train of thought can be used through all Classes and all souls. Take your time, make intelligent changes, keep the player base informed on your intentions and the game will evolve and you will keep your customers.

  12. #12
    Plane Touched
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mopain View Post
    If physical damage styas where it is reactives should be reverted to having no internal CD.
    ^this right here sums it up 100%. Physical damage was pretty useless with valor normalization (catering to QQ's in the first place) but the short bursts we received with ogcd's made up for it.

    Give us back the ogcd's but even lower the damage from 120% to say 95-100%.

  13. #13
    Ascendant Hodor's Avatar
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    Ding 50 on my cleric

  14. #14
    Plane Walker
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laundry View Post
    ^this right here sums it up 100%. Physical damage was pretty useless with valor normalization (catering to QQ's in the first place) but the short bursts we received with ogcd's made up for it.

    Give us back the ogcd's but even lower the damage from 120% to say 95-100%.
    Rank 8 vs Rank 8 there is no need to lower the damage. It was fine as it was. Again as mentioned I could easily make a justification (with endless FRAPS clips) to support this to show it could use a small damage buff if anyhting. All in all though it was okay. Ii picked my targets wiesly saving the proper targets for last. Too much more damage where I could say drop fully geared competent wardens or certain spec mages solo would be a definate red flag it is over the top. If I was able to that I could wipe anything with a healer...

  15. #15
    RIFT Guide Writer Kruunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Dog View Post
    Non-RB are really unplayable now. RB is good and there are a few mixes you can take. I too find it very boring though.

    I still miss parachamp play style.... epic physical damage tornado... and weak as piss defensively.

    Trion are still trying to make us play tanks it seems.

    P.S. We will quit before that happens Trion.
    Totally agree.
    Status: Dipping My Toe Back In

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