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Thread: Warriors get shafted as DPS

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaseinNJ View Post
    The problem with all of those builds is that you'll constantly get beaten 1v1 vs other warriors who are using riftbladd. As a result they are not viable.

    Your choices right now are:
    1) RB/Champ/VK 2Her which will beat everything except..
    2) RB/Champ/Pally which will beat option #1 and rogues but will have a much harder time against casters
    3) Tank
    My own RB build is RB/Champ/Para, basicly a more bursty, less utility version of the VK ragestorm build, but still follows your logic, I agree with you. Sorry if people like the champ/vk/para build, but compaired to these builds, it sucks. Just because your doing good in a bad spec doesn't mean it's good, it means either you're good, or you had good circumstances, but you'd perform even better in a RB spec.

    I like champ too, I loved how it used to be before it ate all the nerfs, I'd look for a chance for one of my PvP specs to play like a champ again, while still being on par with my RB build, but it's just not.

  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakiro View Post
    My own RB build is RB/Champ/Para, basicly a more bursty, less utility version of the VK ragestorm build, but still follows your logic, I agree with you. Sorry if people like the champ/vk/para build, but compaired to these builds, it sucks. Just because your doing good in a bad spec doesn't mean it's good, it means either you're good, or you had good circumstances, but you'd perform even better in a RB spec.

    I like champ too, I loved how it used to be before it ate all the nerfs, I'd look for a chance for one of my PvP specs to play like a champ again, while still being on par with my RB build, but it's just not.
    But thats the thing, champ didn't get most of the nerfs, para did. A deep champ spec is still viable. Deep para is not.

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakiro View Post
    I'm sure the title got your attention, so you could come in and post how OP warriors were and needed a nerf, good, I got your attention. This thread is about the warriors role in PVP ONLY.

    What do I mean by warriors get shafted as DPS? Their DPS isn't bad, they good burst, CC, and the GOOD high rank warriors are just ****ing scary thanks to our buddy guild perk blood thirsty. I'm not here to argue about balance between damage of warrior vs other classes, I'm here to argue about choices.

    The simple fact is, every other class has at least two options when choosing to go DPS, warriors have one, rifttblade.

    Clerics can go heavy Inq, or into Cab, or even go some combination of melee which is like shaman/blah/blah I'm not quite sure to tell the truth.
    I've seen rogues do good in PvP as heavy sab, marksman, assassin, nightblade.
    Mages can go heavy Warlock, necro, stormcaller, and dominator
    Warriors...can go heavy Riftblade, thats really the only option.

    Now, theres a handful of different riftblade builds, just like all the other classes have variations in specs, but like other classes, its all the same playstyle. You pretty much have to go 29 into RB, and 80-90% of your damage comes from the same RB skills you use in every single build. Yeah, a lot of people go into VK after the points spent into RB, but you really only get 2 damaging skills, ragestorm and discharge. Aside from that, all the damage is coming from the core RB skills.

    It's about choices, when it comes to choices warriors already get shafted. We can't heal, we can't even support, we can only DPS and Tank (and not very well in pvp, they really need to fix that.) Rogues can pretty much do anything, same with clerics, and mages can do all but tank and melee.

    I like riftblade, I have since beta, but I like choices better. Currently I have 4 specs, pve tank, pve dps, pvp Riftblade (non VK), and...nothing. I can't even really decide what my 4th spec will be for PvP, because I've tried all the VK spin offs, 1her pally builds and they all play pretty much the same as my current RB build. All you get in the variations is different utility, your rotation might add 1 or 2 abilities but thats it.

    So whats the solution? I really have no idea. If warriors can't even have the option to act as a support, I think either change one of our souls to be something like the chosen from warhammer, but less OP. A warrior that has auras, auras that buff his allies and debuff his enemies when they are in range, something to let us act as a support soul. Or make one of our other DPS souls strong enough to have it's own build, not just something that gets splashed in with RB.

    Obviously this is just my opinion, I'm sure there are plenty of people that feel that warrior DPS specs have enough variation and think it's fine. I'm not one of them, I really feel like I don't have as many options as I should with 8 ****ing souls, there should be a competative DPS build for PvP that doesn't involve 29 in RB. But I'd like to hear from other warriors, and people of other classes saying that I'm whining, and that warriors are OP.
    You have one best choice, big deal.

    Clerics have 0 DPS choices. None of them are viable in the slightest anymore.
    Cabalist used to have a death damage boost instead of specific skills that allowed for soul drain+ obliterate burst and boosted vex damage(thus healing) for some survivability.
    Now there's just small consistent aoe with tyranny which is a joke.

    The one choice you say you have is overpowered.
    The other choices you have are still better than what other callings can do.
    Paragon still does more ranged damage than caster clerics.
    Lingering wounds still allows you to win warfronts for your team with a grey weapon equipped.

  4. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Valanceer View Post
    You have one best choice, big deal.

    Clerics have 0 DPS choices. None of them are viable in the slightest anymore.
    Cabalist used to have a death damage boost instead of specific skills that allowed for soul drain+ obliterate burst and boosted vex damage(thus healing) for some survivability.
    Now there's just small consistent aoe with tyranny which is a joke.

    The one choice you say you have is overpowered.
    The other choices you have are still better than what other callings can do.
    Paragon still does more ranged damage than caster clerics.
    Lingering wounds still allows you to win warfronts for your team with a grey weapon equipped.
    Cleric's do more dps, and can AoE heal...who are you playing with?
    The caster's are obviously doing it wrong, play with a good cab/in
    Yeah, except for you doing no damage, and it not affecting at all cause they do 0 dps now. But sure.
    Also cabs still play warfronts, and are most of the time, on top of the healing, damage, and kb meters along with mages, so if this is a personal experience from you. Perhaps its your spec, skill level, or people whom you play with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rizaz View Post
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  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mdorty View Post
    But thats the thing, champ didn't get most of the nerfs, para did. A deep champ spec is still viable. Deep para is not.
    Champ has sucked balls since 1.2, and no point, has more than 32 points in champ ever been viable, when I say viable, I mean not ****ty. It's just not worth the points, after 32 they'd be better served elsewhere.

    Also Cromagis, thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. It's almost impossible for a warrior to get 500k damage in a 5-10 min warfront, cabalists can do that. For people who think that aoe damage is just fluff, no, aoe damage wins warfronts.

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cromagis View Post
    Cleric's do more dps, and can AoE heal...who are you playing with?
    The caster's are obviously doing it wrong, play with a good cab/in
    Yeah, except for you doing no damage, and it not affecting at all cause they do 0 dps now. But sure.
    Also cabs still play warfronts, and are most of the time, on top of the healing, damage, and kb meters along with mages, so if this is a personal experience from you. Perhaps its your spec, skill level, or people whom you play with.
    Tiny consistent AoE hits add a lot to the damage board.
    However, they contribute absolutely nothing because they are outhealed by any AoE heal or self heal proc many times over.

    Your ignorance of what is going on around you in warfronts is staggering.

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakiro View Post
    Champ has sucked balls since 1.2, and no point, has more than 32 points in champ ever been viable, when I say viable, I mean not ****ty. It's just not worth the points, after 32 they'd be better served elsewhere.

    Also Cromagis, thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking. It's almost impossible for a warrior to get 500k damage in a 5-10 min warfront, cabalists can do that. For people who think that aoe damage is just fluff, no, aoe damage wins warfronts.
    Yeah, I go 30 points into champ in my 2h build. But it would probably be viable to go deeper, as deadly strikes wasn't nerfed, and ups your non finisher damage after 30 points invested. At any rate, the numbers speak for themselves, as I said, both builds I use do really awesome burst damage. Just don't rely on heavy para to buff your damage and you're fine.
    Last edited by Mdorty; 08-18-2011 at 10:44 AM.

  8. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kakiro View Post
    I'm sure the title got your attention, so you could come in and post how OP warriors were and needed a nerf, good, I got your attention. This thread is about the warriors role in PVP ONLY.

    What do I mean by warriors get shafted as DPS? Their DPS isn't bad, they good burst, CC, and the GOOD high rank warriors are just ****ing scary thanks to our buddy guild perk blood thirsty. I'm not here to argue about balance between damage of warrior vs other classes, I'm here to argue about choices.

    The simple fact is, every other class has at least two options when choosing to go DPS, warriors have one, rifttblade.

    Clerics can go heavy Inq, or into Cab, or even go some combination of melee which is like shaman/blah/blah I'm not quite sure to tell the truth.
    I've seen rogues do good in PvP as heavy sab, marksman, assassin, nightblade.
    Mages can go heavy Warlock, necro, stormcaller, and dominator
    Warriors...can go heavy Riftblade, thats really the only option.

    Now, theres a handful of different riftblade builds, just like all the other classes have variations in specs, but like other classes, its all the same playstyle. You pretty much have to go 29 into RB, and 80-90% of your damage comes from the same RB skills you use in every single build. Yeah, a lot of people go into VK after the points spent into RB, but you really only get 2 damaging skills, ragestorm and discharge. Aside from that, all the damage is coming from the core RB skills.

    It's about choices, when it comes to choices warriors already get shafted. We can't heal, we can't even support, we can only DPS and Tank (and not very well in pvp, they really need to fix that.) Rogues can pretty much do anything, same with clerics, and mages can do all but tank and melee.

    I like riftblade, I have since beta, but I like choices better. Currently I have 4 specs, pve tank, pve dps, pvp Riftblade (non VK), and...nothing. I can't even really decide what my 4th spec will be for PvP, because I've tried all the VK spin offs, 1her pally builds and they all play pretty much the same as my current RB build. All you get in the variations is different utility, your rotation might add 1 or 2 abilities but thats it.

    So whats the solution? I really have no idea. If warriors can't even have the option to act as a support, I think either change one of our souls to be something like the chosen from warhammer, but less OP. A warrior that has auras, auras that buff his allies and debuff his enemies when they are in range, something to let us act as a support soul. Or make one of our other DPS souls strong enough to have it's own build, not just something that gets splashed in with RB.

    Obviously this is just my opinion, I'm sure there are plenty of people that feel that warrior DPS specs have enough variation and think it's fine. I'm not one of them, I really feel like I don't have as many options as I should with 8 ****ing souls, there should be a competative DPS build for PvP that doesn't involve 29 in RB. But I'd like to hear from other warriors, and people of other classes saying that I'm whining, and that warriors are OP.
    why are u whining? you kill everyone in 2 seconds so why does it matter?

  9. #24
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    Pre nerf I ran 26rift (for riftwalk/planar blade initially and that was literally the only reason, yes.. a lot of points to spend!)/38champ (disruptive!)/2vk and it worked great for me up to 49. Before that I was running 44champ/11vk and loved it. Once I hit 50 and was against higher prestige it ofc sucked but now I'm catching up I swap back every now and then, and it still does every time I go back, TBH every build I've tried that doesn't use riftblade attacks as its main seems to struggle :/

    It may be a psychological thing but riftblade just doesn't feel right to me. as much as it SHOULD burst more due to having the finisher at same time as a normal attack - it really doesn't seem to burst aswell :/ or doesn't feel it definitely, maybe it's just due to the lack of big clunk sound when I use the finisher.

    Champ is my favourite tree for warrior (I've never specced into paragon) but I really agree with the OP, it feels like its basically only there for Fear/LW atm.


    I'd also probably like riftblade more if it teleported behind the enemy instead of to the opposite side, so that teleporting to a kiter didn't turn to face them and they run straight through you >.< But right now just doesn't feel right in pvp. Given 51 rb a try a few times and feels horrible aswell, I guess I just need higher prestige. I think a subdue spec is going to be something that I'll end up in to try and boost teams chances but for very small fights (3v3~) it's pointless.

    I liked in warhammer that I had multiple gear choices, I specced/geared mostly for damage but ran with a shield and lots of block stats to give me some survival aswell and it worked, but here if you want to PvP you take your prestige gear or you melt, no choice.

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  10. #25
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    I personally like 25 champ/ 20 para/ 21 rb. I went away from the deep anything and went for more of an all around spec. I do rather well in wf's or solo. Every spec has it's nemesis though. Don't believe you can win every fight, every time.
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