+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 35

Thread: Suggestion to Fix Paragons

  1. #1
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default Suggestion to Fix Paragons

    Issues with Paragon
    - Main spec Paragon offers low DPS compared to other Specs
    - Issues with Dual Wielding not being as effective as 2 Handers
    - Strike Like Iron being far too strong
    - Strike Like Iron being mandatory for other DPS specs
    - Too many defense based abilities

    Suggestions
    Abilities
    Dual Strike - Now deals 2 packets of damage, first packet deals 60% of the main hands damage, 2nd packet deals 60% of the off hand damage

    Path of Hurricane - AoE reduced to 15 meters (this one isnt as needed, I just find it annoying to use this ability 80% of the time, because I end up cleaving something a mile away)



    Strike Like Iron - Increases the damage of Attack Point generating abilities by 30%, this amount is doubled while dual wielding

    Shifting Blades - Now off the GCD - Follow each of the next attack point generating abilities with a strike from both weapons, dealing 30% of your main hand damage and 30% of your off hand damage. Affects your next 2/4/6 Abilities

    Paired Strike - Is now a Finisher - Energy Cost reduced to 10 - Now Off the GCD, Does no damage -The next Follow up attacks within 15 seconds from the Warrior deal 30% more damage and are guaranteed to critically hit. Affects your next 1/2/3 Follow up Attacks


    Thread the Trees- Range increased to 20m - I see no reason why this one deserves shorter range

    Bend like the Reed - Reduced to 10/20/30% Parry for 10 seconds. This amount is doubled while dual wielding


    Talents
    Double Jeopardy - After hitting with Dual Strike or Path of the Wind, your next follow up attack within 4 seconds deal 5/10/15% more damage

    Weapon Master - Gain an additional attack point after using 6/5/4/3/2 Attack Point generating abilities

    Deadly Grace - Increase the damage dealt by each weapon on Dual Strike by 5/10/15%
    Increases Dual Strike from from being 60% main hand and 60% off hand to being 75% main hand and 75% off hand
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  2. #2
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    153

    Default

    According to the internet "fixing" can be used as an a synonym for "castrating" and that is pretty much what you try to do to my build.

    I prefer the current state over these "improvements"

    We need dual wield scaling brought on par with 2h scaling to bring us to the damage level of champions. Not nerfs (path of the hurricane) and sidegrades from burst to sustained damage.

    If dual wield scaling is not changeable (for example if it cannot be done without affecting rogues), I would rather have some gradual improvements like taking Shifting Blades of the GCD and putting SLI much higher into the tree (like swapping places with Thread the Trees), instead of fixing what ain't broken (Paired Strike)
    Constable Ashaya the Daredevil
    <Libertatis Causa> - Feenring (EU)

  3. #3
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudCobra View Post
    According to the internet "fixing" can be used as an a synonym for "castrating" and that is pretty much what you try to do to my build.

    I prefer the current state over these "improvements"

    We need dual wield scaling brought on par with 2h scaling to bring us to the damage level of champions. Not nerfs (path of the hurricane) and sidegrades from burst to sustained damage.

    If dual wield scaling is not changeable (for example if it cannot be done without affecting rogues), I would rather have some gradual improvements like taking Shifting Blades of the GCD and putting SLI much higher into the tree (like swapping places with Thread the Trees), instead of fixing what ain't broken (Paired Strike)
    Paired Strike would be stronger in my suggestion

    Also increasing % damage improves scaling

    Tho you are correct it would be pushing it a down from burst into much higher sustained
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  4. #4
    Ascendant Talamare's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    1,939

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudCobra View Post
    Not nerfs (path of the hurricane)
    Ah and I already said the Path of Hurricane change isnt ~needed~
    It's not a damage meters fault you can't hit a certain dps and others similar to you can, it's the fault of your bad gear, bad spec, or bad rotation. So stop getting mad at the meters and invest some time into not being bad.

    DPS Mathcraft - How damage works
    DPS Mathcraft - STR vs DEX
    DPS Mathcraft - Armor
    Warrior DPS Calculator *UPDATED* v0.2
    Paragon Rebalancing Suggestion

  5. #5
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    153

    Default

    No, you're just adjusting percentages on a few abilities. That doesn't remove the the scaling issue of having Rising Waterfall crit harder with a T1 2h-epic than with a raid 1h-epic (T2 offhand) and Force of Will. To be fair, your suggestions would end that issue by nerfing Champions, but it's not like they need further nerfs.

    Your new Paired Strike is a strong ability, but I wouldn't want to pay for improvements with one of our best abilities, while crap like Way of the Wind exists.

    Many Paragon abilities have their place in current builds and making them fill an entirely different role just to create yet another PvE build is unneeded.
    Constable Ashaya the Daredevil
    <Libertatis Causa> - Feenring (EU)

  6. #6
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    I'd say that there's too many major changes there.
    Paragon 'fixing' just needs to be minor tweaks. Though the focus should be on sustained damage - as it is the focus of the class.

    Plenty of 'simple' suggestions have been thrown out there to start with:
    1. Somewhere deep in the tree, add in a change to bring the GCD down to 1s.
    2. Move Shifting Blades off-GCD
    3. A bonus to AP scaling and/or white damage for points past 31 into the tree.

    4. A major change that would require some reworking for other builds too - swap Way of the Wind and SLI. This way SLI is pretty much only for pure paragons (and minor hybrids), which means that 2h abilities can now be scaled without the assumption of being boosted by SLI. Also means that SLI could be further tweaked on the assumption it's pretty much being used with 1h/dual wield builds.
    Ceribaen, formerly of Nyx (D).
    Now residing on Seastone.

  7. #7
    Rift Disciple
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    153

    Default

    As much fun as it would be, taking our GCD to 1s would

    a) add some serious power issues. Just going AP builder -> follow up, could sustainable, but our Power regeneration wouldn't keep up with offGCD skills (builder and finisher).
    b) probably be OP, if one could deal with the Power issue, as it is a flat 50% (discounting auto attack) dps boost.

    Actually this is a more major change than anything the OP suggested.

    But at least it's an improvement, instead of a zero sum operation that takes as much as it gives.
    Constable Ashaya the Daredevil
    <Libertatis Causa> - Feenring (EU)

  8. #8
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CloudCobra View Post
    As much fun as it would be, taking our GCD to 1s would

    a) add some serious power issues. Just going AP builder -> follow up, could sustainable, but our Power regeneration wouldn't keep up with offGCD skills (builder and finisher).
    b) probably be OP, if one could deal with the Power issue, as it is a flat 50% (discounting auto attack) dps boost.

    Actually this is a more major change than anything the OP suggested.

    But at least it's an improvement, instead of a zero sum operation that takes as much as it gives.

    Rogues are on a 1s GCD, partially to compensate for the lack of a 2h mechanic - which is why it'd seem reasonable for Paragon as well.
    As well, if you consider most pure paragon specs seem to parse around 700-800 or so, compared to the 1000+ BM/champ specs get... a 50% damage increase would actually bring them right in line at that point.

    I'm thinking place this ability in the 38+ range to make sure tri-specs can't make use of it, and only limited hybrids as well - though you should still be able to go deep enough into a second tree to help with power regeneration.
    Ceribaen, formerly of Nyx (D).
    Now residing on Seastone.

  9. #9
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    616

    Default

    Don't touch path of the hurricane, it's hilarious AOEing half of black garden with one skill if you happen to be in the right position


    EDIT: Other than that I like your ideas, actually. And no, you can't make warrior GCD 1 second, that's technically impossible and impractical, because all energy consumption etc are based around 1.5. Also, there's the issues of combining it with other souls, and so on... not gonna happen, don't bother trying. It'd be fun, but no.
    Last edited by Kristoph; 05-18-2011 at 03:38 AM.

  10. #10
    Prophet of Telara
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    1,096

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kristoph View Post
    Don't touch path of the hurricane, it's hilarious AOEing half of black garden with one skill if you happen to be in the right position


    EDIT: Other than that I like your ideas, actually. And no, you can't make warrior GCD 1 second, that's technically impossible and impractical, because all energy consumption etc are based around 1.5. Also, there's the issues of combining it with other souls, and so on... not gonna happen, don't bother trying. It'd be fun, but no.
    As I said you place it high enough in the paragon tree, require dual wield to activate it - then there's not much 'combining' that can be done to exploit it.

    And paragon as it stands now - at least with the builds I've run have plenty of excess energy. It may mean you can't spam flinching strike every time its up, or have to pay attention to which off-GCD attacks you have are worth using at a particular time - but in a raid environment between tablets and chloro/bard buffs - I don't see starvation as being the largest issue.
    Ceribaen, formerly of Nyx (D).
    Now residing on Seastone.

  11. #11
    Rift Disciple Xaices's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    175
    Xaices | VoS | Wolfsbane

  12. #12
    Champion Enokarda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    542

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Caeldan View Post
    I'd say that there's too many major changes there.
    Paragon 'fixing' just needs to be minor tweaks. Though the focus should be on sustained damage - as it is the focus of the class.

    Plenty of 'simple' suggestions have been thrown out there to start with:
    1. Somewhere deep in the tree, add in a change to bring the GCD down to 1s.
    2. Move Shifting Blades off-GCD
    3. A bonus to AP scaling and/or white damage for points past 31 into the tree.

    4. A major change that would require some reworking for other builds too - swap Way of the Wind and SLI. This way SLI is pretty much only for pure paragons (and minor hybrids), which means that 2h abilities can now be scaled without the assumption of being boosted by SLI. Also means that SLI could be further tweaked on the assumption it's pretty much being used with 1h/dual wield builds.
    I'd hardly call a 1 second GCD a minor change ;)
    If this were to happen (seems awfully hard to code for just spending a soul point) I would hope it to be a 51 point ability to limit putting 16 points into champion and picking up Two-Handed-Specialization and slayers bearing. The alternative would be 44 points leaving lots of room for champion to pull ahead in dps still. Of course making it a self buff that only works when dual wielding could solve this problem, but then I feel we're back to a coding issue that could be easily exploited by the players.

    I completely agree with 2 & 3.

    Art is meant to upset people, science reassures them.
    ~Georges Braque

  13. #13
    Shadowlander
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Posts
    28

    Default

    Give paragon a passive that reduces the global cooldown and energy cost while dual wielding.

  14. #14
    Rift Master
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    616

    Default

    and then the paragon tree would be balanced around the fact that some people would run the 1 second GCD, meaning it would be worthless without it... yawn.

  15. #15
    Plane Touched ag0nizing's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    157

    Default

    Just make the Paragon an support role via off healing ala bard with its abilities and call it a day IMO
    Drecin
    Seastone

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts